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Clutch Replacement Time?

27K views 38 replies 22 participants last post by  RSchwerer 
#1 ·
Hi Everyone,
I have an 06 cs with 35k miles. During the past week the clutch has felt like it has begun to soften and it's release point seems to be higher. Purchased the car with 9k miles. 90% of my 26k miles have been on the highway.

You know the reaction a car gives you when you fail to match revs properly during an up or down shift? That reaction has lessened and shifts have an eery Cadillac like smoothness to them.

Coincidentally, I have an overdue brake/clutch flush scheduled this weekend and plan to have them take a look. Unfortunately, I don't think new clutch fluid will do it.

If you've replaced the clutch, do these symptoms sound familiar?

If it is the clutch is there anything I should be aware of? e.g. purchase kit online ($350) and bring to the shop?

Thanks in advance!:cheers:
 
#2 ·
Really depends on how you drive and how the previous owner drove the car. There is no reason a clutch shouldn't last 60k miles or more if you have any idea how to drive a manual. Sounds to me like your clutch is broken-in, not worn out. I'd be much more concerned if say in 3rd with the clutch completely let out/engaged, you step on the gas and the rpms climb rapidly but you don't speed up (ie the clutch is slipping), then you have a problem. If engagement is smooth from a complete stop, and if it is holding when torque is applied, then there is nothing wrong with it. Engagment point and feel will change throughout the life of your clutch, but without abuse it should have a lot more life left.

Now if you routinely perform 6k rpm clutch drops, have not idea how to rpm match during downshifts, or no idea how to drive a manual, or any of that applies to the first 9k of the car's life, then I would be worried.
 
#9 ·
Update:
Had the clutch and brake flush done (this was way overdue) and the clutch feels much better. The shop also told me there was nothing wrong with the clutch and of course it's feel would change over time.

The mechanic then told me there was a computer (which they paid 35K for) that they could hook the car up to and get a read out on remaining clutch life, which he put at 75%. I've never heard of such a thing- in any case the flush really helped.

The this was an indy shop whose mechanic was a tech for Porsche for 10 yrs.

I guess I had read too many clutch failure posts. :crazy:
 
#24 ·
Revy:

Sounds like you may have had some air in the clutch line. That would give you higher engagement and a more vague feel to the clutch. When they put new fluid in, they got the air out of the line. Nothing wrong with new fluid, but the air was likely causing your problem.

Glad it wasn't something more painful!!!

:cheers:
 
#12 ·
They've been saying to keep an eye on my clutch since I bought my CS (26K odo.) I've got 36K on it now, still feels the same to me. I don't track, but I'll occasionaly launch and drive a bit aggressively for fun on backroads. The clutch pedal doesn't really snap back, and it feels a little heavy on roll outs, but it doesn't overrev, or slip.

Clutches are hit or miss. A good driver can drive a car for it's entire life without needing to replace. I've taken 2 cars to 100K before replacement. I have an 06 Civic DD, and the clutch went at around 13K, HondaCare said I needed to learn stick. Put 80K on since, still feels like new. When it died on the civic, there were almost no warning signs, drove it 300 miles the day previous, and then with 10 miles was completely shot. Previous cars, I saw it coming months in advance.

Bottom line, if you need a new one, don't wait, and as long as the cost of parts and labor isn't obscene, just get it done. Sooner or later it won't go in gear and then you'll need to throw a tow on top the bill.
 
#14 ·
ZM,
I believe the kit and contains all you need but you may want to inquire with some other members that have changed the clutch before.

I think there is also a DIY article on pelican parts that walks you through the process and lists the needed parts. Looks like a real pain in the...
 
#16 ·
I've never had to replace a clutch on any manual cars I've owned. The two with the longest mileage -- a BMW 5 series and a Saab 900S -- had clutches that were still going strong at around 120K miles. My 968 clutch was perfectly fine when I sold it at around 56K miles. Sometimes I can't believe how fragile these modern Porsches are when I read the stories of low-mileage clutch failures (engines, too, for that matter). Is it a sign of cost-cutting or too much focus on building higher-profit SUVs?
 
#20 ·
Yep, yep on the previous owner thing!! I bought a 08 CS CPO and the clutch is gone at 27K! I bought it with about 23K on it. I had to drive few hours to buy it so taking it back to them wasn't really an option to me. It never really had a "bite grab" under heavy throttle when I got it, but more of a smooth drag then grab. Local Porsche dealer said it was a "wear and tear"...$2,800 later I'll start from scratch. His tech said the bulk was a $1,200 flywheel, that had to be changed or I most surely would feel some "chatter" and would be back shortly after I picked it up. I'm still searching to see why the flywheel is part of the wear and tear group. I think it should separate and if a new clutch kit doesn't work right because of a worn flywheel then it should be covered by the warranty. Anyone heard of having to replace the flywheel for causing chatter with a new clutch? This was my 8th manual car and I have never had one go this early. I abused!!! my BMW M3, Supra turbo, and many others that the all years in the military had me driving and they lasted 60-90K. I this seems the "hit or miss norm" for some Cayman owners.
 
#21 ·
At 30k mikes, I recently had my clutch done (was getting some chatter engaging the clutch in 1st) and my wrench did the clutch, throw out bearing, rear main seal (preventative maintenance), and....the dual-mass fly wheel which he said was the worst he has seen in terms of its condition.

Being that I own a '90 911, which ALSO has a dual mass fly wheel issue, it makes me wonder why over 20 years later, Porsche still has not improved reliability of this part. As for whether or not a fly wheel is a normal "wear item"....not in my book. But, I am an avid autocrosser and do at least one DE a year. My shifting is not the smoothest, so I am sure I contributed to the deterioration of my fly wheel. I was well out of warranty, so wear item or not, I was on the hook to pay for the part.

In any event, the shop I use is am independent Porsche only race prep shop that I have used for over 10 years. I trust them implicitly.

If you can find a quality independent shop, I would expect that you can save an awful lot of money on repairs like this. The good news is that when I got the car back, clutch engagement was like brand new, smooth as a baby's butt, and absolutely ZERO feedback through the pedal. :) I don't know how much vibration I was getting due to the FW, but the car seems to be very, very smooth as I go through the gears.

Brian
 
#25 ·
My turn to have clutch problems. Bought car CPO 11 months ago. 16000 miles later and the clutch failed today. It has felt weak to me since I got it. (at 32000 miles) Engagement point kind of high and abrupt. I had to learn not to kill the engine in it. My Audi clutch is far more gradual and starts taking up much closer to the floor. But-- The Cayman S clutch has not slipped and I thought (hoped) that maybe this was just the way it was. Today driving home 100 miles from attending a funeral. Two lane rural highway. normal leisurely shift from 3rd to 4th and something felt odd in the pedal, Like a resistance that had to be pushed through. THEN it did not release fully and it was difficult to engage 4th. Had to rev match. Now the clutch slips if power is applied too heavily in higher gears and the clutch does not release fully even when pressed ALL the way to the floor. I suppose it COULD be air in the slave or clutch cyl but I fear the worst. Frustrating. I don't wear out clutches. I have NEVER replaced one before 100,000 miles. Even THEN I did only replaced it because we had the engine out of my Audi and it made sense to do it . 40+ years of manuals. First clutch failure. Calling dealer tomorrow. I'll keep y'all posted.
 
#28 ·
I got a call from the SA and he said I needed a clutch AND A FLYWHEEL. I asked them to let me come look and touch and I did so.


The clutch -- flywheel and pressure plate look PERFECT. No visible wear. Very little discoloration. The DM flywheel is tight with far less than the allowed 15 degree rotation. The first estimate was drum roll--- $3700.! I stood under the car and talked with the tech and the SA. Lets keep this flywheel. Nothing wrong with it. OK. (over $1000.) Go ahead and put a clutch kit in it since we have it apart. What do you think failed? " Not sure, It all does look better than we expected." Does your estimate include a slave cyl? "No yours is not leaking." Add one. I believe this one sucked air or failed internally. "Ok. Will do."

Now that I have seen the clutch, I will always believe that the issue was the slave cylinder and that this should have been a CPO repair. I will have about $1000 in parts in it and whatever the labor comes out to be. Could be worse but I wish I had bled the slave myself before I took it to them. I would have known then. Live and learn.
 
#30 ·
On my recent clutch/flywheel job, turns out the radial play of the flywheel was fine - and, it also looked fine. BUT, the axial play - which should be near-zero - was bad enough to allow the edge of the smaller plate to be pushed down against the other plate. Both the dealer and the indy mech who I had look over my saved parts later said "Wow - NOT GOOD!". I hope your flywheel really is still good, otherwise you could be hastening the failure of the new clutch parts. I also had a failed pressure plate, which the dealer overlooked. Sigh. Both flywheel and pressure plate were considered wear items, so my CPO was of no help.
 
#29 ·
All this talk has understandably been about clutches in manual transmission cars. Does anybody know anything at all about the life of the two clutches in the PDK transmissions?

Given that it's no torque converter slush box, it seems to me the 2 clutches are likely to wear some over time, but I have no idea about whether they should last more or less than regular clutches, nor do I understand whether, like with a manual, how you drive would affect the life of the 2 clutches? Anyone out there able to reduce my level of ignorance? Thanks in advance.
 
#34 ·
Update #2 Mr. Patterson, your car is ready!

Great. How did we come out? Papers shuffle---- " Let's see, $2200.00 Considerably less than it was before". I-- Great but Shouldn't I get SOME compensation from CPO? I know you changed the clutch and pressure plate on my instructions and they are not covered as wear items on CPO, but that was after it was disassembled and we inspected it and found the clutch not to be worn much at all but I still felt it wise to change it while we were already there. The diagnosis of a worn clutch was wrong. What fixed it was the slave cylinder that I suggested you check in the first place. I know I suggested you change it while replacing the clutch but even so.--- That should have been CPO. Can we work out some middle ground?
I didn't mention the Dual Mass Flywheel that they would have changed had I not gone and inspected and found everything to be as new. (except the slave cyl apparently.)
Talking with warranty manager (whoever that is.) More later :) (wish me luck)
 
#35 ·
Third and final update: I'm obviously not a good negotiator.

Picked the Cayman up today. Final bill was $2300. and some change including tax. I'm probably not the only guy who has paid for a clutch (pressure plate, friction disc, and throwout bearing) AND a slave cylinder when all he needed was a slave cylinder, but it is not pleasant regardless. The SA showed me where they highlighted that clutches are not covered under CPO. I asked about the slave cylinder. They said that is part of the clutch. I pointed out that clutches could be damaged by abuse but a slave cylinder really was not likely to be. I asked if the clutch master cylinder was covered. He thought that WOULD be. I pointed out that the CPO document did not state that clutch LINKAGE was not covered. Then I mentioned once again that the clutch only got replaced because of a missed diagnosis of what was really a slave cylinder problem. Also that I had suggested that to be the problem when I dropped off the car. No dice. --- I actually felt bad for the guy. I doubt he has any say so and yet he had to hear me out.
Oh well-- It is over-- I have a brand new clutch. (does not feel any different than the old one though.) A couple more episodes like this and I'm back in an Audi.
At least I stopped them before they changed the dual mass flywheel. THAT would have been another $1200.
 
#37 ·
Its impossible the problem was the slave. When a slave fails, it doesn't make pressure and the clutch will not release, it will always stay engaged in the gear you are in. With a completely failed slave, if the clutch is in good shape, it won't slip.

You stated in your first post that in the higher gears, the clutch slipped. That is the classic test and the classic sign of a failed clutch. So the dealer didn't mislead you with saying the clutch needed replacing. But the dealer did mislead you about the DMF. Good that you called him on that. They usually want to replace everything disc, PP, DMF because any out of spec condition on the used component can cause chatter when you replace another component, and, I'm sure, you would definitely complain if that were the case.
 
#38 ·
I understand your reasoning but you did not see the pressure plate and friction disc. I believe the slave failed internally and held pressure against the throwout bearing causing the initial slippage in higher gears under heavy throttle. I did not mention that THAT symptom went away before I got the car to the dealer and the clutch could not be made to slip. The oddest symptom was that the slave would not release the clutch fully. The pedal had to be pressed HARD to the floor and it would release partially. Enough to shift gears if I rev matched. I still had to turn off the engine in order to engage first gear at a stop. I still believe it was a slave cyl problem. I do understand the dealers position though. I would be far more sympathetic however if they had called me and said. "We have the clutch out and it really doesn't look bad. Could you come by and discuss with us?" Instead I got the call that said they needed to change EVERYTHING. (except the slave.) Putting it behind me. Just a bit of confidence lost. I have been well pleased with their service on my Audi's over the past 10 years or so.
 
#39 ·
I'd be tempted to take this to arbitration, or whatever appeal remedies are spelled-out in the CPO. Especially their claim that the slave isn't covered because it is part of the clutch. A clutch is a specific part of the drive-train - totally separate from the slave. A clutch is reasonably claimed to be a wear item, justifying the exclusion. A slave isn't a wear item - any more than all the other mechanical parts. Unless the CPO warranty specifically excludes slave cylinder, I don't see them winning in arbitration.
 
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