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Thread: Preventing Oil System Related Engine Failures

  1. #81
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    Re: Preventing Oil System Related Engine Failures

    Quote Originally Posted by K-Man S View Post
    No, not unhealthy, or bitter, just being a realist and not an apologist for Porsche. If Porsche cars are track animals then what does that make Chevy, Ferrari and BMW, all of which finished AHEAD of Porsche in the GTE class???

    I saw where a guy lost his motor in his new GT2 RS recently, so even if you pay for the top of the line 911 you might still have problems.

    I know people who love Porsche who send me emails or PM's that say "How can you talk bad about Porsche, you'll devalue your car, you're doing a disservice to the brand" etc. etc. My response is that I call them like I see them, and if I remain quiet and turn a blind eye to a problem, then I'm not helping the company or the cars get any better, I'm as guilty as someone in Porsche marketing or engineering for sweeping a problem under the proverbial rug. I don't want to see Porsche do that. There was a time when Porsche wouldn't do that, but I think once Weideking took power and now those who have followed him, all of that has gone out the window for the almighty dollar and profitability and wanting VW to become the largest car manufacturer in the world and Porsche is just becoming a cog in the wheel. I'm not the only one who feels this way either. I spoke to one of the greatest Porsche racing legends today and he feels the same way. Members of a pro team I spoke to last month told me that Porsche used to support them, now Porsche more or less dictates to them and that if they had a viable alternative they would take it. I don't want to see Porsche fail, I don't want to see their cars get black eyes, or have Porsche pull even further out of racing than they already are. Perhaps I'm naive to think that I and others who voice their frustration will ultimately be heard and understood within the halls of power at Porsche.

    Sadly, it would probably take a great drop in sales for Porsche to make any significant changes, the car company is selling lots of SUV's and sedans, and those products don't go racing on Sunday. As long as they don't have an accelerator pedal stick or someting like that on 60 minutes for the Cayenne or Panamera, the company will continue to traverse the course that was charted more than a decade ago.

    So yes, marketing loves to recall past glories and tell tall tales about how Porsches are track worthy, etc. but the reality is that they aren't. There was a time when they were, but those times have passed. Porsche has become more like other sports or sporty cars and less like a unique well engineered and well built durable track worthy machine. Maybe that change was inevitable, maybe the company just couldn't be viable making more durable products so durability was sacrificed for dollars.

    On the bright side of thing, it should keep aftermarket companies that know what they are doing busy for years to come...
    Rob, K-Man:

    I have to say, I'm also very disappointed in the design flaw of the Gen1 engines. There is no good excuse for this engine to be put in a mid-engine car whose mission in life is to corner fast. Why else would we put up with a car with no back seat, low ground clearance, difficult engine access etc?

    That said, it is no secret that these engine fail if you don't put the engine protection goodies on them. Rob, I would not just get a bigger sump. You also need an improved VOS, a $2500 plus installation TTP Oilsafe kit and/or an Accusump system. You should also have a power steering cooler mounted in the front of the car and plumbed to your steering rack in front to keep the temps down back at the pump in the engine compartment. While your at it, an LN Engineering Intermediate Shafticon upgrade would be a good idea.

    The first thing I did before buying my CaymanS was read the "Complaints and Problems" section of this forum and the articles on curing those problems. No amount of wishful thinking is going to solve them. Trying to "drive around" the problems won't work either long term.

    Some guys have decided to just put their cars back to stock and sell them when the engine repairs are completed and not do these improvements. That's one way to go with this.

    Another is to think about maybe a 3.8 engine or doing a full TPCicon turbo treatment on the car or selling it as is to a builder.

    Now, for all the complaining about Porsche, they seemed to have remedied every single engine problem with the Gen 2 design. The engine now has 5 pumps instead of one. There is an improved power steering design, an improved VOS design and the trouble prone intermediate shaft has been eliminated on the new engine. I've been at DEs in the Midwest where a Porsche driver takes a bone-stock CS and drives all day long, stopping only for bathroom breaks and the like in all kinds of weather. No problems at all. They are also running a group of cars in all-day autocross and track conditions with lots of different drivers at the Porsche Experience events. The autocross thing, especially, seems like it would be hard on these cars.

    It seems to me that they are doing the typical German car denial thing while simultaneously developing the cars to avoid future problems. This is typical of BMW behavior as well.

    Although I think the Gen 1 situation is really abysmal for guys who buy them with the intent of tracking them now and then, it's not like no one knew about this problem. This situation existed for the 996 cars and our Gen 1 engines are 996 blocks turned around backwards from the way they were originally designed. That means the oil pickup is in the opposite corner from optimal.

    The lesson is, either drive these cars as everyday cars and don't do DEs OR AUTOCROSS, or upgrade them. While I feel terrible for both of you guys' situations, the warnings were out there for you to read and heed.

    Every car has foibles. I think this particular group of foibles on this particular car is inexcusable for a company like Porsche. Apparently they do too because they have made some pretty huge efforts to fix them.
    Last edited by sixisenuff; 06-13-2011 at 03:51 AM.
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  2. #82
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    Re: Preventing Oil System Related Engine Failures

    Just a couple of points (for clarity) on M97 (Gen 1) oiling:

    1) the primary oil pickup is in th center of the sump, not in a corner
    2) there are three pumps (1 primary, 2 scavenge) vs. five in the 9A1

    Cheers,
    A
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    Re: Preventing Oil System Related Engine Failures

    Quote Originally Posted by gobynetwork View Post
    My apologies for being a little off topic... but not completely as this relates to track reliability.

    Krokodil, My buddy made it to the Tribute to Le Mans last weekend and said that some Cayman, number 241 was there and was very fast. He said that "Cayman goes like a Cup Car." While I always credit the driver, I imagine that Vision MS must have had little something to do with your speed on the banking at Cal Speedway. How was the weekend?
    Goby,

    Thank your buddy for the compliment. However, the 241 Cayman it not quite like a cup car, as they still have ~ 100 HP more than me. Makes it tough ot keep up.

    While the engine is the car strong it is basically a stock, blueprinted build. Although the crank is machined for improved oiling and Carrillo rods were installed to reduce the chance of rod bolt failure, the only peformance increasing change was to deck the heads to max stock compression ratio. The car runs an open exhaust, but has the stock intake TB & plenum and no head/cam work at all.

    For tribute we ran cup slicks which, while helping with grip and wear, hurt the gearing (taller rear tire) and slowed the car off of the corners. We will rebuild the gear box at the end of the season and may consider improving the ratios.

    Cheers,
    A
    www.caymanspec.com


    Vision Motorsports - Fikse - JRZ - Tarett - MantisSport

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    Re: Preventing Oil System Related Engine Failures

    Quote Originally Posted by Krokodil View Post
    Just a couple of points (for clarity) on M97 (Gen 1) oiling:

    1) the primary oil pickup is in th center of the sump, not in a corner
    2) there are three pumps (1 primary, 2 scavenge) vs. five in the 9A1

    Cheers,
    Krok:

    1. For some reason, the oiling problem comes up far more often on the Cayman than the 996. I think it might be the position of the scavenge pump intakes if not the primary. Point is, they're reversed on the Cayman and it doesn't help matters. I should do my homework because my memory obviously isn't that great.

    2. 5 is better than 3, apparently, because Porsche made a hydraulic engine test stand that turns the thing every which way while it runs at high speed. There's a video...very impressive to me. Anyone know where that thing went?

    Thanks for cleaning up my errors. It's 4 scavenge and one primary on the newer engine, correct?
    -Sixisenuff
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  5. #85
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    Re: Preventing Oil System Related Engine Failures

    six,
    One other point I'd like to make is that I owned a 986 Boxster S, 996 C4S and 987 Boxster S, and none of them had oiling problems like the 2006 Cayman S. So I would disagree with your statement that I should have known that the Gen 1 Cayman S's would have these oil related problems. Of course I would agree with you now that anyone who is buying a Gen 1 Cayman now with intent to track it should easily be able to find all the info here and elsewhere about engine failures.

  6. #86
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    Re: Preventing Oil System Related Engine Failures

    Quote Originally Posted by K-Man S View Post
    six,
    One other point I'd like to make is that I owned a 986 Boxster S, 996 C4S and 987 Boxster S, and none of them had oiling problems like the 2006 Cayman S. So I would disagree with your statement that I should have known that the Gen 1 Cayman S's would have these oil related problems. Of course I would agree with you now that anyone who is buying a Gen 1 Cayman now with intent to track it should easily be able to find all the info here and elsewhere about engine failures.
    Ken:

    Sorry if I made it sound like you "should have known". You bought one of the first CS's in O6. How could you know then? But later on? It's your website, Ken! Don't you read it? Did your previous experience with Porsche convince you that these posts were not worth reading? I even remember talking about this with you and some of the guys at R/A in '09. Of course, by then, it may have been too late for these things to save your bearings. They may have already been out of spec and not holding oil well.

    987 Boxsters have the same motor! 986's have the same oiling scheme. Maybe you got lucky with yours or maybe the 986 just didn't go fast enough??? Maybe you didn't mod your suspension as much with the earlier cars? I don't know the reason one car failed and the other didn't...Maybe your old cars failed for one of the next owners?

    All I know is that it's not exactly unusual to spin the #6 connecting rod bearing on a Gen 1 Cayman or 987 Boxster at the track...or after the track or even at an autocross. The same thing happens to 10 guys and I have to suspect that there's a pattern evolving. Even less rare is a 987 belching smoke after or during a track session from VOS failure. Also typical is that the power steering pump reservoir overheats and warps and leaks as the car sits in the pits on a hot day after a hard session.

    The tech analysis of why the Gen 1s grenade seems to be the same. This is what convinced me. It's always the same story. It was there to read in early 2009 before I bought my car. I read it and bought my car anyway. I'm glad I made the purchase.

    No one really knew about the effectiveness of the Gen 2 fixes in mid '09. Reviews were out about the power and the suspension changes and the electronics changes inside the car. To get a Gen 2 car with the same options as my car would have cost $80K or so. The real strength of the Gen 2 system came out when the Interseries cars started running and running and running really hard without these oiling problems.

    I am accustomed to sports cars and motorcycles that need things in order to become a complete package. That doesn't mean ultimate, just complete....That, to me means, the steering wheel isn't so big you need hand over hand technique to get around a corner (tii), the oiling system doesn't run bearings dry (CS). The car doesn't overheat when you get it on a track (tii), the car doesn't oversteer badly when it gets light in an off-camber or over the hill curve (E36 M3), the motorcycle seat doesn't put your private parts to sleep after 30 miles of road use (R1100RT), the windscreen doesn't channel rushing air right to the bottom edge of your helmet making wind noise like standing behind a jet engine (Ducati ST4)... These are the sorts of things that are best dealt with almost immediately after purchase of a new, to me, machine.

    Andy Chenowith, from OR, sold me his Heigo roll bar, his sump extension, his VOS and his plenum all in one big sale. He'd blown his motor after adding the sump and VOS... He did many DEs prior to installing them and never put in an Accusump or Oilsafe kit. (You need at least one of these two items. I'm hoping not both!!!) He replaced his motor, took all the stuff off and sold his car...Bought a ZO6 and, from what I've heard, loves the car and the bargain prices of service and tweaks for it although I'm sure he kinda misses his CS.

    in '09 a few folks were still saying that you could DE these Gen 1 cars without reliability problems and that only a few were somehow flawed. You hear less and less of that as time goes on. I feel it's the nature of this beast that the more times the primary oil pump sucks foam instead of liquid oil, the greater the clearance becomes in that #6 bearing. Eventually, it runs dry and fails unless you shore up the oil system early.

    I took care of this stuff and stayed away from the track for 2 years for what I feel was good reason. I think my car is sound now and should handle 10 to 15 years of track/street duty before it needs anything major because it no longer sucks foam..ever. I'm keeping an eye on the water pump and the Intermediate Shafticon. So far, so good.

    The point is, read about the problems and the cures when you buy something and budget for them. Spend the money sooner rather than later and you will enjoy the benefit of the tweaks instead of the next owner. For instance, if I bought a new BMW, I'd immediately replace the run-flat tires. I'd put them in my basement in bags and put them back on the car when I traded it in. Why run around and those awful, expensive things for 15,000 miles or more and then replace them near trade-in time? The new guy gets the benefit.

    Reliability tweaks always get first priority if I plan to keep a car and drive it in anger. Warranty Shmorranty. Get the work done and preserve the car.

    That, to me, is the single biggest benefit of Planet-9, good, honest information about problems and cures. I would have never purchased a semi-exotic mid-engined car if it were not for this forum and for the contributions of the owners on it. It was the same for the BMW club and forums for the E36 M3 and the E30 M3 before it. When I owned my 2002tii, there were no forums. You joined the car club, went to meetings and read tech sheets and manuals. There were tech columns and write-ins from owners in the national magazine. It took more of your time but you met great people that way.

    You want to talk foibles? The tii had foibles! and a clueless dealer network at that time, but what a fantastic car to own and drive when it was maintained. I don't mind doing work and spending money if the result is a really great driving experience.

    Motorcycles are the same. They all have weaknesses. The good ones have fixes and reward the research, expense and work involved in getting them right.

    People don't want to believe negative stories about their prized possession. I will admit I've read a few that are more ranting than fact, but there is a grain of commonality in these engine and power steering complaints that made me seek out and install the required goodies. I had purchased an obviously never tracked used CS out of warranty and it seemed like getting these fixes was the right thing to do.

    It's possible that the TTP Oilsafe kit is not sufficient. I may be looking for a new engine someday. I certainly hope not. I'm reading this thread to find out what the alternatives are for those who need engine replacement.

    Good luck to all who are faced with this issue. I hope the solution is quick and as painless as possible for you.
    fab944 and CBRacerX like this.
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    Re: Preventing Oil System Related Engine Failures

    I talked to Dwain and there might be a ray of hope in that he said the symptoms sounded more like an IMSicon failure than the D-chunk cylinder wall failure and that this was a significantly smaller problem. In my mind it moves if from 'apocalyptic' down to 'catastrophic', but I'll take any slender sliver of mercy I can get at the moment!

    Tomorrow I'll get it up on a ramp at work and take the sump off. There were no metallic fragments in the oil but we'll see if there's a collection of shrapnel in the sump and see if it's apparent where it originated.

    The X51 transplant approach would be absolutely lovely, but could end up at circa $30k and that's simply not an option. Maybe one day, but not in my foreseeable future.

    @Sixisenuff - I could have saved myself the pain of this experience if I'd done more research beforehand but even with the benefit of hindsight's 20/20 vision I don't see the situation being clearly defined enough for me to have recognised it as a severe risk and then chosen one or more of the multitude of different approaches to treating it and paid to modify everything on the assumption that I would be both willing and able to push the car hard on track on possibly multiple occasions.

    Although the variety and quality of information can be much greater on specific car enthusiast forums (like this one!), there is still evidence of the general phenomenon of people feeling more inclined to relay stories of negative experiences than positive - possibly just because they hope for some assistance or remedy or whatever. I'm not explaining this very clearly, but my point is related to why you rarely get "yeah, it was ok" reviews on things, as the moderately satisfied majority don't often feel the need to communicate that.

    Back in the UK I used to own a E46 BMW and there were horror stories all over the web about a plastic flap in the intake manifold breaking, getting ingested by the engine and causing a terminal failure. The way it was talked about you'd think it would happen to every car, yet mine was fine for 6 years and 147k miles and I've never heard of such a failure for any of the people I've known personally who have had those cars. My learning from this was not to fear everything I read. Clearly my learning from this experience with the Cayman is that I should definitely fear some of it!

    As for Porsche and their corporate directions and vehicle trackability, well I remember being very disappointed when a friend was involved in the stillborn racer project that became the Carrera GT and revealed the truth about the VW/Audi deal for the Cayenne platform in exchange for letting their brands dominate at Le Mans. It was a vital move for the company, but took a lot away from their lofty image in my perception. I still hate those cars for what they represent, even though I am somewhat grateful for it. It's a complicated emotion, ok!

    Regardless, of all the cars I could have taken to the track I thought a Porsche would be the most suitable. I know someone who tracks his unmodified Boxster S fairly regularly (and drives very 'enthusiastically') without any problems and I myself took part in a demo track day with Caymans and Boxster Spyders on a simplified airfield course. They were 2012 models, but certainly the impression given was that this was what they were made for - being thoroughly spanked! If only they'd put "is now track-capable" on the features list, I might have asked more probing questions.

    After the blow-up I wrote to Porsche NA and pointed out that numerous 'lesser' cars all completed the track day with no problems and that mine was the only one leaving on a flat bed. I got no response. For more context, I used to have a Subaru Impreza Turbo with a few minor tweaks and which I would drive over to the Nurburgring and track fairly hard. I never pushed right to the limit as I always knew I had to get home in it somehow, but in all that the only casualties were several sets of Bridgestone's finest. I didn't try any harder at WillowSprings in the Porsche, and the track should have been less punishing than the 'Ring, but the car just wasn't up to the task. That's almost disappointing as the repair bill is scary.

    Still, maybe there's a little bit of hope left so I'll do the checks Dwain suggested and post an update soon.

    Thanks

    Rob

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    Re: Preventing Oil System Related Engine Failures

    Quote Originally Posted by ShesDeadJim View Post
    I talked to Dwain and there might be a ray of hope in that he said the symptoms sounded more like an IMS failure than the D-chunk cylinder wall failure and that this was a significantly smaller problem. In my mind it moves if from 'apocalyptic' down to 'catastrophic', but I'll take any slender sliver of mercy I can get at the moment!

    Tomorrow I'll get it up on a ramp at work and take the sump off. There were no metallic fragments in the oil but we'll see if there's a collection of shrapnel in the sump and see if it's apparent where it originated.

    The X51 transplant approach would be absolutely lovely, but could end up at circa $30k and that's simply not an option. Maybe one day, but not in my foreseeable future.

    @Sixisenuff - I could have saved myself the pain of this experience if I'd done more research beforehand but even with the benefit of hindsight's 20/20 vision I don't see the situation being clearly defined enough for me to have recognised it as a severe risk and then chosen one or more of the multitude of different approaches to treating it and paid to modify everything on the assumption that I would be both willing and able to push the car hard on track on possibly multiple occasions.

    Although the variety and quality of information can be much greater on specific car enthusiast forums (like this one!), there is still evidence of the general phenomenon of people feeling more inclined to relay stories of negative experiences than positive - possibly just because they hope for some assistance or remedy or whatever. I'm not explaining this very clearly, but my point is related to why you rarely get "yeah, it was ok" reviews on things, as the moderately satisfied majority don't often feel the need to communicate that.

    Back in the UK I used to own a E46 BMW and there were horror stories all over the web about a plastic flap in the intake manifold breaking, getting ingested by the engine and causing a terminal failure. The way it was talked about you'd think it would happen to every car, yet mine was fine for 6 years and 147k miles and I've never heard of such a failure for any of the people I've known personally who have had those cars. My learning from this was not to fear everything I read. Clearly my learning from this experience with the Cayman is that I should definitely fear some of it!

    As for Porsche and their corporate directions and vehicle trackability, well I remember being very disappointed when a friend was involved in the stillborn racer project that became the Carrera GT and revealed the truth about the VW/Audi deal for the Cayenne platform in exchange for letting their brands dominate at Le Mans. It was a vital move for the company, but took a lot away from their lofty image in my perception. I still hate those cars for what they represent, even though I am somewhat grateful for it. It's a complicated emotion, ok!

    Regardless, of all the cars I could have taken to the track I thought a Porsche would be the most suitable. I know someone who tracks his unmodified Boxster S fairly regularly (and drives very 'enthusiastically') without any problems and I myself took part in a demo track day with Caymans and Boxster Spyders on a simplified airfield course. They were 2012 models, but certainly the impression given was that this was what they were made for - being thoroughly spanked! If only they'd put "is now track-capable" on the features list, I might have asked more probing questions.

    After the blow-up I wrote to Porsche NA and pointed out that numerous 'lesser' cars all completed the track day with no problems and that mine was the only one leaving on a flat bed. I got no response. For more context, I used to have a Subaru Impreza Turbo with a few minor tweaks and which I would drive over to the Nurburgring and track fairly hard. I never pushed right to the limit as I always knew I had to get home in it somehow, but in all that the only casualties were several sets of Bridgestone's finest. I didn't try any harder at WillowSprings in the Porsche, and the track should have been less punishing than the 'Ring, but the car just wasn't up to the task. That's almost disappointing as the repair bill is scary.

    Still, maybe there's a little bit of hope left so I'll do the checks Dwain suggested and post an update soon.

    Thanks

    Rob
    Rob:

    I write things like this for the benefit of others thinking about buying R tires and sport springs before protecting the drive trains on these cars. As you are finding out, they are so expensive to fix. These mods don't seem like cheap insurance but they really are.

    One could certainly read the posts and think they were exaggerated claims and ghost stories, but when you read several in a row and you hear from a Porsche or race-house tech about what precisely the problem is, well...I went ahead and got those "updates" before flogging. I'm glad I did. I think the engine is pretty stout generally, but it has these weaknesses.

    As someone said, the con-rods are a weak link and this oiling issue just exposes the weak link. That may be, but an engine that gets good oil all the time rarely fails.

    Intermediate Shafticon failure commonly happens with engines that are slogged around the city a lot at low revs and don't get stretched out on the highway much. I make a point of getting the revs up now and then everytime I drive mine.

    The Gen 2 engines don't have intermediate shafts. How cool is that?

    CBRacerX likes this.
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    ShesDeadJim is offline Porsche Chatter
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    Re: Preventing Oil System Related Engine Failures

    So I took the sump off today. I was greeted with a shower of creamy oil and a hail of metal fragments. Hopefully there are two attached pictures which show first the view up through the sump and into the block, and secondly the metallic residue of the internal carnage.

    The conrod for either cylinder 5 or 6 (can't quite see in well enough to be sure), but presumably 6, has split its big end and made a bid for freedom past the crank, taking with it some cylinder wall and a few chunks of the black steel bracket (baffle?) below.

    I can't quite wiggle the remainder of the rod out, but presumably the post-failure seizing was a mechanical obstruction from the rod which then shook around as we tried to un-seize it and eventually got into an orientation where it's fairly loose.

    On the left in the second photo you'll see the bits of bearing and some fragments of the under-crank bracket. In the middle is the big end bolt that presumably sheared first, as the other one looks to be still in there, albeit at a deeply unwholesome angle. On the right are what look to be bits of cylinder wall, going by the appearance of the chunk at the top-right, where there's an evident change in colour between the block and liner materials.

    Other than these factual observations, I have no comment that is suitable for publication where children might be able to read it.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Preventing Oil System Related Engine Failures-enginecarnage1.jpg   Preventing Oil System Related Engine Failures-enginecarnage2.jpg  

  11. #91
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    Re: Preventing Oil System Related Engine Failures

    Sorry to hear of your loss of course, and surprise surprise the #6 rod. What are the odds of that??? If it were truly "loose rod bolts" or weak rods, then we'd be seeing other rods fail, but it's always #6, furthest away from the oil feed, hence the rod with the lowest oil pressure and the bearing most likely to spin when pressure is lost. When you take your engine apart check the rod bearings all the way down the crank from #1 to #6 and I bet you see increasing wear the further you get away from rod #1. It's a design flaw in the engine, but Porsche won't admit that. Perhaps you should show your photos to 60 Minutes?

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    Re: Preventing Oil System Related Engine Failures

    I'm tempted to send them to Porsche, along with a much snottier letter than my first (utterly ignored) communication. Perhaps I'll add an extra picture to the photo sequence as well - one of my bare arse!

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    Re: Preventing Oil System Related Engine Failures

    Quote Originally Posted by ShesDeadJim View Post
    I'm tempted to send them to Porsche, along with a much snottier letter than my first (utterly ignored) communication. Perhaps I'll add an extra picture to the photo sequence as well - one of my bare arse!
    I don't know if you saw my response in a different topic thread but basically there are dealerships selling CPO cars with over revs in range 4 and we have owners with blown engines being told their warranty is no good because they have overrevs in range 4. I think it would make for some great undercover camera/film work to visit a Porsche dealer and get the sales pitch on the car with the overrevs in range 4, about how great the CPO warranty is, etc. then take the car to another dealer and tell them the engine failed, don't start the car, but let them do a DME report and ask Porsche to cover the engine failure. Then film them when Porsche comes back denying coverage because there are over revs in range 4. Put the two pieces of film together and send to 60 minutes or some similar show in the UK and watch the fireworks begin.

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    Re: Preventing Oil System Related Engine Failures

    I'm sure I'm not alone in saying that I hate to see these kinds of posts. I'm very sorry you have to go through this.

    Unreal what Porsche is getting away with on this...

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    Re: Preventing Oil System Related Engine Failures

    Quote Originally Posted by K-Man S View Post
    Sorry to hear of your loss of course, and surprise surprise the #6 rod. What are the odds of that??? If it were truly "loose rod bolts" or weak rods, then we'd be seeing other rods fail, but it's always #6, furthest away from the oil feed, hence the rod with the lowest oil pressure and the bearing most likely to spin when pressure is lost. When you take your engine apart check the rod bearings all the way down the crank from #1 to #6 and I bet you see increasing wear the further you get away from rod #1. It's a design flaw in the engine, but Porsche won't admit that. Perhaps you should show your photos to 60 Minutes?
    Ken and all:

    #6 being farthest from the pump is significant...not because it gets the lowest pressure, but because, when the pump starts pumping foam, the low pressure condition lasts the longest time until all the bubbles are out of the system and the system is hydraulic again. Just like air in the brakes, air in the oil system causes a delay in pumping.

    I've heard all the stuff about enlarging the lines etc. but the problem, as I see it, is that air bubbles just don't pump well.

    Great post, Rob. Unfortunately, this looks like an oiling incident to me....Not IMSicon bearing failure....And it's not from over-revs.
    -Sixisenuff
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    Re: Preventing Oil System Related Engine Failures

    Not to conjure up any oil debates, but I was wondering if anyone has tried this oil sump baffle from pelican. And if Krokodil can comment on adding 996 swirl pots and this baffle. Thanks

    This is designed to fit all Boxster/996/997 M96/97 type engines. It expands on the factory X51 design and features all stainless construction with metal doors that will not distort or deteriorate over time. This helps to ensure that more oil stays around the main oil pickup at all times. This kit includes the baffle, 3x 6mm bolts to attach the baffle to the existing oil pan, blue Loctite for the 3x bolts and Loctite 5900 to seal the pan to the engine case.

    997-107-243-EBSR-K
    Oil Sump Baffle for M96/97 Engines, 996, 997 (2005-08), Boxster (1997-2008), Cayman (2006-08) (Excludes Turbocharged Models & GT3) [More Info]






    Quote Originally Posted by Krokodil View Post
    I am not sure we need yet another thread on this, but..

    One important modification is the retrofit of an older 996 oil separator / defoamer / swirl pot (many names) in place of the 997 part installed. This modification should help remove the air that is trapped in the oil (foam) as the oil returns from the heads. Note: this is not the same as the AOS fix descibed elsewhere.

    The part in the orginal PET catalog is a 996 part (996 107 080 54) and looks just like the part in the drawing. The as built though is a 997 part (on the left) that looks much different. The more recent PET shows the 997 part.

    If these pots are installed in conjuntion with the Mantis windage tray (5 more minutes to the job) then the tray must be modfied to allow the pots to pass through. Not a big deal.

    See photo:



    Here is the "as built" sump (courtesy K-Man S):



    And here is an photo of how the car was specficed in the original PET (Boxster engine shown courtesy Pelican Parts):



    Also, if you actually want to fix the problem, and not just band aid in a solution then you need to modify the crank and rods:



    My car has raced for over a year with the above modifications, but without an accusump or TPP kit without isssue. YMMV.

    Cheers,
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Preventing Oil System Related Engine Failures-baffle.jpg  

  17. #97
    KS-CS's Avatar
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    Re: Preventing Oil System Related Engine Failures

    Quote Originally Posted by clee View Post
    Not to conjure up any oil debates, but I was wondering if anyone has tried this oil sump baffle from pelican. And if Krokodil can comment on adding 996 swirl pots and this baffle. Thanks . . .
    The baffle in your picture is the new one produced by LN Engineering, and is designed to go with their new, 2qt deep sump extension. I don't know if it would work with the standard sump cover, but you could always contact LNE and ask. I assume that it is an improvement over the X-51 design. I don't see why it wouldn't be compatible with the 996/997 swirl pots also.

    BTW, LN Engineering also now sells a Tandem Oil Scavenger pump kit on the same page linked above (in addition to the Accusump).

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    Re: Preventing Oil System Related Engine Failures

    Thanks for the info KS-CS. I thought it may be a LN or Mantis part. Weird that pelican doesn't label it so, when all the other stuff is labeled.




  19. #99
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    Re: Preventing Oil System Related Engine Failures

    Quote Originally Posted by clee View Post
    Thanks for the info KS-CS. I thought it may be a LN or Mantis part. Weird that pelican doesn't label it so, when all the other stuff is labeled.



    I beleive it is an EBS (Engine Builder Supply) part - at least the one in the picture. LN may be making there own as well (no idea).

    I do know that it is not a Mantis part as Ernie prefers the stock bulkhead (even over the OEM X-51 part. I also run the stock part - previously with the gen 1 Mantis sump and now with the gen 2.

    It appears to me that both the Mantis and the new LN windage trays (the big flat pan) will need to be modified to allow installation of the 996 swirl posts.

    Cheers,
    A
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  20. #100
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    Re: Preventing Oil System Related Engine Failures

    Quote Originally Posted by KS-CS View Post
    BTW, LN Engineering also now sells a Tandem Oil Scavenger pump kit on the same page linked above (in addition to the Accusump).
    Well, that was a giant disappointment. I was waiting for this for a long time, and now I find out that it has TWO pumps (only need the 1), fixes one issue while introducing a brand-new brake booster issue, and costs twice as much as the TTP kit. I predict they will sell millions of these.

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