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  1. #1
    kencaymans is offline Porsche Chatter
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    Borla + Softronic on Cayman S

    I am planning on getting both the Borla Exhausticon and Softronicicon Flash (like many 987 owners) this spring. I have searched around and have yet to find conclusive information regarding the horsepower gains with these two items in combination.

    Both claim about 20 horsepower, so you would assume 40 horsepower in combination.

    As well, if there are any owners who have both, if I had to choose between either Borla or Softronic for overall driving enjoyment, which would you recommend.

    I am planning on both, but not at the same time.

    Thanks,
    Ken


  2. #2
    Croc'ed's Avatar
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    Re: Borla + Softronic on Cayman S

    The HP numbers are not additive. The two mods do complement one another nicely, however. 20hp total improvement is about all you should expect, but you'll gain torque across the board, making the car feel faster throughout the rev range (especially above 4K rpm.)

  3. #3
    kencaymans is offline Porsche Chatter
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    Re: Borla + Softronic on Cayman S

    Thanks, I appreciate the info.

    Softronicicon claims 20 hp, so that would imply that Borlaicon does not add any benefit.

    Borla's website does not list any HP values.

    Ken,

  4. #4
    John OKC's Avatar
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    Re: Borla + Softronic on Cayman S

    I have the Borlaicon. Not only does it sound great there is a noticable increase in power. Gatorbite posted his immediate before and after dynos which validated Borla is good for 20 HP.

    I have considered the Softronicicon flash but to get the most out of it, you need to change the plenum. If you search Softronic and dyno you will probably get some unbiased member dyno results.

    IMO, if they both are worth 20 HP each, they are probably worth 30 HP together, not 40, but not 20 either.


    07 Cayman S, Borla exhaust

  5. #5
    Brisco's Avatar
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    Re: Borla + Softronic on Cayman S

    No way will you get close to a peak improvement that is the sum of both. To quote HP numbers is fun, but mostly meaningless.

    Factory numbers are quoted according to an SAE standard, which virtually no aftermarketer will ever follow. (I understand that the test is run with the engine on a test stand, for example.) Actually adhering to the SAE standard means that numbers are less easily doctored (search around and you'll find dyno operators that say they can get you any HP number you want, based on many variables.)

    We tend to talk about HP as a peak number - which is great to brag about, but barely begins to tell the story about feel or drivability in actual use. People buy HP, but like to drive torque - meaning that in the real world, the torque, and more so the torque curve, or delivery, is what we feel and makes us happy - not the peak HP number. On the track, a 295HP Cayman S is pretty deficient, but on the street, the 251(?) lb-ft of torque propelling 3200lbs of car and driver is pretty sufficient.

    Aftermarketers will make claims of HP gains in several ways: 1. lie (happens a lot, as they can say, well, your car has this issue, it was too hot, your dyno guy didn't know what he was doing, whatever, and that is why you didn't see our number) 2. quote a number that they actually saw on dyno that is the GREATEST gain at the RPM where they saw the greatest gain (maybe 20 HP at 4000 RPM, but only, say 8HP at the engine's peak HP RPM) or 3. give us legit data, including conditions, dyno setup and torque and HP curves. There are many other ways, like the FMF method of posting heavily smoothed power curves, that are clearly bogus (first clue = HP and torque curves do not cross at 5252 RPM.)

    From a marketing standpont, method 2 is the most favorable without outright lying, and I think this is very common. So, let's say the Borlaicon gives +20 at 5000 RPM, and the Softronicicon flash is good for +20 at 3500 RPM - we wouldn't see +40 at either RPM.

    I think the car will feel better with a Borla, and maybe with the Softronic flash, and more so with both, but don't expect miracles. Also, don't expect to be completely problem-free with these, or any mods. And, certainly don't plan on improving your fuel economy (while it might be possible, a number of folks here have reported a heavier foot with the vastly improved sound, and consequently higher fuel burn.)

    FYI, I've had three aftermarket back-half exhausts + two sets of aftermarket headers and a Softronic flash.
    --------------------------------------------
    Tracks: PIR Roval, AMP, FIR (East, West, Bondo) Inde (Main, 3, South)

  6. #6
    Lobaeux's Avatar
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    Re: Borla + Softronic on Cayman S

    I've got a Remus exhaust and Softronicicon flash. No way does my butt dyno record a 40HP increase. BUT, (no pun intended), I'm not sure the Remus is "rated" at 20HP increase anyways. Without putting it on a dyno, I'd guess in the 10-15HP range combined.
    The HP increase doesn't tell the whole story though. The new exhaust has a much sweeter note and the flash gives a much smoother and immediate throttle response.
    The full benefit won't be realised until I put an IPD plenum/GT3 throttle body and new headers.
    Joe - 2007 Porsche Cayman S, 2011 Porsche Cayenne

  7. #7
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    Re: Borla + Softronic on Cayman S

    On my car I've been happy with both of these.

    I had the Borlaicon on first and then added SRPicon. Like other's have said the numbers aren't additive, and Dynos are never 100% accurate nor comparable. If you check out the 2nd link below you can see some dyno charts, though I will say that due to the non optimal conditions they probably came in a little lower than they should have. Regardless I was happy with these results as I saw a decent increase from both modifications. And while the SRP seemed to give a smaller gain in hp, it did improve the feel l of the car and all seemed to run smoother.

    Check out these threads for more information

    http://www.planet-9.com/cayman-boxst...-find-out.html

    SRP + Borla/AWE/Fabspeed/Cargraphic dynos
    Last edited by Blitzkrieg; 01-10-2011 at 05:27 PM.

  8. #8
    bholdrich is offline Porsche Chatter
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    Re: Borla + Softronic on Cayman S

    Ok, i have to ask the masses. I have a 2006 cayman s with the IPD plenum and Borla Exhausticon. I am looking at a software upgrade (maybe) but what is the best option? Yah i know, I'm sure the input will be subjective, but i would like some good feedback.

  9. #9
    RS 987 is offline Porsche Enthusiast
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    Re: Borla + Softronic on Cayman S

    I haven't ever tried a Borla Exhausticon on the Cayman, but heard it has heavy drone (others may chime in to confirm). If your car is a daily driver, you may want to re-consider this. I had a Fabspeedicon Race Exhaust which sounded magnificent and gave me good gains, but become quite tiresome for the street. Perhaps a different sports exhaust might be a better option.

    I've also never tried and tested any products from Softronicicon, and can only vouch for the excellent gains I have received from the BGB Motorsports 3.4l DFI race file. The file I have however, does expect more significant upgrades incl. race headers, intake etc. I assume Softronic will make a custom file for your car, in which case I would ask them to maximize low down torque that is often comprised with many race exhausts.

    20hp from a race exhaust on a Cayman is wishful thinking. More like 15-17hp tops. But, if you add headers as well, you can expect another 10-12 hp.
    ECU tune generally won't give you significant HP gains, but with any luck will improve the drivability of the car.

    Best of luck!
    formerly Cayman Rrrrrr!

  10. #10
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    Re: Borla + Softronic on Cayman S

    Quote Originally Posted by RS 987 View Post
    I haven't ever tried a Borla Exhausticon on the Cayman, but heard it has heavy drone (others may chime in to confirm). If your car is a daily driver, you may want to re-consider this. I had a Fabspeedicon Race Exhaust which sounded magnificent and gave me good gains, but become quite tiresome for the street. Perhaps a different sports exhaust might be a better option.

    I've also never tried and tested any products from Softronicicon, and can only vouch for the excellent gains I have received from the BGB Motorsports 3.4l DFI race file. The file I have however, does expect more significant upgrades incl. race headers, intake etc. I assume Softronic will make a custom file for your car, in which case I would ask them to maximize low down torque that is often comprised with many race exhausts.

    20hp from a race exhaust on a Cayman is wishful thinking. More like 15-17hp tops. But, if you add headers as well, you can expect another 10-12 hp.
    ECU tune generally won't give you significant HP gains, but with any luck will improve the drivability of the car.

    Best of luck!
    Softronic will provide a stock tune with no accounting for modifications at all. They ask for your modifications, but you will always receive the same tune regardless of any factors. This is at least the case with a DFI engine.

    The tune is a good one, but limited.

    I would save your money and get a full exhaust system including headers (with sports cats for regulatory and CEL reasons) for the best gains; then consider a remap.

    I have no problems with the Softronic map in the sense that it hasn't broken anything BUT, their HP claims on DFI cars are complete nonsense and their customer support is rubbish.

    That being said, I have heard good things about the 987.1 software... so who knows!

  11. #11
    Mrd07's Avatar
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    Re: Borla + Softronic on Cayman S

    I loved the tune on my 987.1 car

    much much less is known about the 987.2 car and tunes atm or how good the 330 BHP claim from Porsche is with there own tune.

    there must be over 100 987.1 tunes and graphs, and about 2 987.2 tunes !!!! strange as the 987.2 car is quite old now.

    I would def use Softronicicon again, but I have to question does a Cayman R need a remap ?

    I agree that the Softronic company seems to have all but given up on us all.

    no post these days, no support, the web site is 8 years old, and when I asked for a discount already having a 987.1 map and now owning a R I did not get much of a response, and I thought owners of Softronic got great upgrade offers.

    maybe he has made his money and off sunning himself on a nice beach, which is a shame as the 987.1 products were amazing.
    Save the cheerleader save the world

  12. #12
    bholdrich is offline Porsche Chatter
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    Re: Borla + Softronic on Cayman S

    TheBob, RS, thanks for the feedback! Quick note, Borlaicon doens't really have a drone, but i also have a 6 speed so i can control it. Mrd07, sorry chief left you out by mistake, but thanks guys!

  13. #13
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    Re: Borla + Softronic on Cayman S

    My car with 330HP is somehow quicker (as measured by data logging equipment) than my 295HP car was after adding "50 HP worth of mods".

    Go figure.
    2007 Speed Yellow Cayman GT 2.7 (retired)
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  14. #14
    Kenkg's Avatar
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    Re: Borla + Softronic on Cayman S

    The characteristic I liked most about the Softronicicon flash was the smoothing of the torque curve. It completely filled in that little "bath tub" at around 3500. A smooth, flat torque curve is very important to me because it provides consistent pedal response.
    Kenny

    2006 Arctic Silver CS 6M, 3.7 L with Methanol Injection, TPC Stage 2 Turbo w boost controller, TPC Stage 3+ suspension, Guard LSD, , TPC Dynamic Suspension Control, short shifter, GT3 Master Cylinder, 19" wheels, RE-11 tires, Sachs Racing clutch, X-51 Oil Cooler, Track Pak VOS, PS Oil Cooler

  15. #15
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    Re: Borla + Softronic on Cayman S

    I have an 06 CS and I have recently made the mods that you are contemplating. Evoms V flow intake, Softronics plenum/throttle body, Softronics flash, and lastly a Borla Exhausticon. The car now has a a smooth delivery of power and torque. As stated above the mods are not cumulative but the car has come alive and the exhaust sound is terrific . Highly recommended with no regrets or downside.

  16. #16
    Kenkg's Avatar
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    Re: Borla + Softronic on Cayman S

    Quote Originally Posted by acropora View Post
    I have an 06 CS and I have recently made the mods that you are contemplating. Evoms V flow intake, Softronics plenum/throttle body, Softronics flash, and lastly a Borla Exhausticon. The car now has a a smooth delivery of power and torque. As stated above the mods are not cumulative but the car has come alive and the exhaust sound is terrific . Highly recommended with no regrets or downside.
    Of course, there is a physiological phenomenon of which you must be aware:

    When your ears perceive the sound of the Borla, your grin muscles contract which in turn causes your sphincter muscle to contract which in turn causes the sensitivity of your butt dyno to increase which in turn causes you to think your car's performance has increased more than it actually has. And that proves that performance is more than just physics. Can you imagine a silent Cayman????
    Kenny

    2006 Arctic Silver CS 6M, 3.7 L with Methanol Injection, TPC Stage 2 Turbo w boost controller, TPC Stage 3+ suspension, Guard LSD, , TPC Dynamic Suspension Control, short shifter, GT3 Master Cylinder, 19" wheels, RE-11 tires, Sachs Racing clutch, X-51 Oil Cooler, Track Pak VOS, PS Oil Cooler

  17. #17
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    Re: Borla + Softronic on Cayman S

    Quote Originally Posted by TheBob View Post
    Softronicicon will provide a stock tune with no accounting for modifications at all. They ask for your modifications, but you will always receive the same tune regardless of any factors. This is at least the case with a DFI engine.

    The tune is a good one, but limited.

    I would save your money and get a full exhaust system including headers (with sports cats for regulatory and CEL reasons) for the best gains; then consider a remap.

    I have no problems with the Softronic map in the sense that it hasn't broken anything BUT, their HP claims on DFI cars are complete nonsense and their customer support is rubbish.

    That being said, I have heard good things about the 987.1 software... so who knows!
    I just thought I would post this as it was a reply to another post;

    Hello Bob xxxxxx

    I'm not sure why you state that our software isn't what it is supposed to be for the DFI cars as we have done all the Interseries cars and all that have won in many other classes? 24hrs Daytona, World Challenge and so on....
    You purchased a flash from 911 Design in England and not direct from us . You had sent us an email that THEY did not understand the flashing process . Softronic assisted you with this as per our emails... Im not sure why you would state that our Customer Service was lacking given the support we offered you directly.


    A stock tune is just that the original stock tune and of course there is no tuning for mods as stock is stock. A stock tune altered would then be tuned and not stock....

    Interesting you state you receive the same tune no matter what your car has???? So basically you compared these to others? 2 megs of binary? Cars with and W/o cats etc? You should check on some other tuners that required DME's to be sent in... Their quote custom tunes couldn't even eliminate a CEl so what was really canned???

    Lets also keep in mind that software cant fix hard parts. Just because you add a hardpart that says it does X+ isnt always true and thinking the software can correct all issues would be like giving a free oil change and tune up with every flash... All the winning cars we have done do not have plenum intakes nor other bolt ons such as Hot air intakes other than exhaust systems. Over 40 Interseries cars all flashed with an exhaust all came up with 350BHP when flashed... This was part of the series stringent testing protocol before being released to a customer.

    Best ,
    Softronic
    Last edited by Softronic; 09-21-2013 at 09:25 AM. Reason: Name and ID done.

  18. #18
    yokokily is offline Porsche Chatter
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    Re: Borla + Softronic on Cayman S

    Hi,

    As many already said, the tuning alone or any other mods without the proper exhaust is'nt gonna give great result.

    My CS06 had the IPD plenum, GT3 TB, Softronics, de-snork and sports air filter but it all came alive a year after wher I installed my Borla Exhausticon. I've feel a bit of difference every step of the way, but the final touch was the one who justify all the others. The package deal is quit impressive at the end and I would'nt go back to my stock CS.

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