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    ronsno is offline Site Upgrade Donor
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    Softronics vs Headers, which next?

    Okay I got my Milltek exhaust installed and I am trying to figure out which mod next, new sport cat headers or Softronics. If I go with headers which one, NHP ($1,399)or Fabspeedicon. If I go with Softronics ($895) first, should I also get their plenum (SRPicon) ($1,650?).

    Thanks, Ron


  2. #2
    timbucthree's Avatar
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    Re: Softronics vs Headers, which next?

    Softronicicon with plenum is the way to go. I put a Borlaicon on mine as the first mod. It improved performance. At some point improving the exhaust moves the performance bottleneck to the air intake side. The plenum and Softronic software gave me a performance boast as great as the Borla itself did on top of the Borla. I think by putting the headers on, you will be pretty certain to run up against the air intake becoming the bottleneck, limiting the effectiveness of the header.

    I can't prove this as I never bothered with upgrading the headers. You will also notice improved gas mileage by about 1-1.5 mpg with the Softronic/plenum combination.

    Just my two cents.

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    Re: Softronics vs Headers, which next?

    My take is go headers first for two reasons. The first being you will get a nice exhaust note improvement, and my Borlaicon was the best mod I made to mine, and second once you get a tune later you could get a custom tune to make the most of the headers and any other mods.

    For me you get two areas of gain with the headers (power gain and sound) compared to only a power gain with the Softronicicon software.
    '06 GR CS: Short shifter, SC, PASM, Cartronic remap, AASCO LWFW, Clutch Masters FX300 clutch & pressure plate, Improved AOS, Borla XR-1, Pagids, SS brake lines, Brembo GT Big Brake kit (6-pot 355mm front & 4-pot 345mm rear) GT3 brake ducts, IPD race plenum, 82mm GT3 TB, 19" OZ Ultralegerra HLT's, H&R Springs & Spacers 7F/14R, Voltphreaks VPR-P6 Li-Ion battery, Silver hood crest, LED lights and.....De-Snork.

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    Re: Softronics vs Headers, which next?

    Good headers for sure. Nice gains in the midrange where you can feel it on the street.
    Daily Driven CS Supercar "Leaps GT3's In A Single Bound"

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    ronsno is offline Site Upgrade Donor
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    Re: Softronics vs Headers, which next?

    I'm torn. I will eventually do both and I agree that the headers will give me sound and performance, but I've read such good feedback on Softronics.

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    Re: Softronics vs Headers, which next?

    With all that mods, you should get a custom map at the end.
    I will do so.

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    Re: Softronics vs Headers, which next?

    I had the Softronics plenum & cat back exhaust on my 07 CS. It gave me a nice HP bump above 6k. It worked well on the track but I never really used it on the street.

    Of course both headers & plenum would be best but on the street I'd go with the headers first.
    Daily Driven CS Supercar "Leaps GT3's In A Single Bound"

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    Re: Softronics vs Headers, which next?

    ronsno:

    Softronicicon tuning alone is great, all by itself. Adding their race plenum will gain you HP on the top end, at the expense of TQ on the low end. Installing headers will give you a bump in TQ in the mid range, along with increased HP on the top end.

    The "best" answer depends on how you intend to drive your car, and your budget.

    The first thing I'd recommend is the Softronic tuning. It's the least costly stand-alone option, and it is already programmed to work with any combination of the mods you've listed. So, you can always add the other options as your time and budget permit.

    Best regards,
    Croc'ed

    PS My car has "all of the above" --- NHP headers, SRPicon+tuning, and PSE

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    prodgers is offline Porsche Novelist
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    Re: Softronics vs Headers, which next?

    Quote Originally Posted by ronsno View Post
    Okay I got my Milltek exhaust installed and I am trying to figure out which mod next, new sport cat headers or Softronics. If I go with headers which one, NHP ($1,399)or Fabspeedicon. If I go with Softronics ($895) first, should I also get their plenum (SRPicon) ($1,650?).

    Thanks, Ron
    You should do the Softronics and plenum first IMO or you will have a check engine light on in the dash ,then do the Fabspeed headers .they are Proven headers .
    They cost more then the NHP but worth every penny IMO .thats probally why the Grand Am racing Caymans use them ..they provide the best power and reliability hands down ..20WHP I havent seen anyone post a NHP WHP dyno have you ?

    Croc'ed have you dynoed your car ? curious to the power the NHP brings for the $$
    "I love the smell of Carbon Fiber in the morning"

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    ronsno is offline Site Upgrade Donor
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    Re: Softronics vs Headers, which next?

    Quote Originally Posted by Croc'ed View Post
    ronsno:

    Softronicicon tuning alone is great, all by itself. Adding their race plenum will gain you HP on the top end, at the expense of TQ on the low end. Installing headers will give you a bump in TQ in the mid range, along with increased HP on the top end.

    The "best" answer depends on how you intend to drive your car, and your budget.

    The first thing I'd recommend is the Softronic tuning. It's the least costly stand-alone option, and it is already programmed to work with any combination of the mods you've listed. So, you can always add the other options as your time and budget permit.

    Best regards,
    Croc'ed

    PS My car has "all of the above" --- NHP headers, SRPicon+tuning, and PSE
    Thanks guys, I'll start with the Softronics.

  11. #11
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    Re: Softronics vs Headers, which next?

    Quote Originally Posted by ronsno View Post
    Thanks guys, I'll start with the Softronics.
    Glad to help. Let us know how this works out for you. You may want to discuss the price of a "future" plenum upgrade with Softronicicon, prior to purchasing the software file as a stand-alone item.

  12. #12
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    Re: Softronics vs Headers, which next?

    Croc'ed has a good point. Ideally do the plenum and ecu flash at the same time. If dollars prohibit this, talk to Scott about your purchase plans. As I recall the ecu flash software stand alone version without plenum is not the same software as the with plenum version. The stand alone version does not support the plenum as I recall.

  13. #13
    Croc'ed's Avatar
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    Re: Softronics vs Headers, which next?

    Quote Originally Posted by prodgers View Post
    You should do the Softronics and plenum first IMO or you will have a check engine light on in the dash ,then do the Fabspeedicon headers .they are Proven headers .
    They cost more then the NHP but worth every penny IMO .thats probally why the Grand Am racing Caymans use them ..they provide the best power and reliability hands down ..20WHP I havent seen anyone post a NHP WHP dyno have you ?

    Croc'ed have you dynoed your car ? curious to the power the NHP brings for the $$
    prodgers:

    I'm not knocking Fabspeed one bit; their headers are works of art IMHO. Methinks the NHP design looks very similar to the Fabspeed's "shorties," and at the time I took advantage of special pricing on the NHP's (offered through Softronicicon.) If I were to buy headers today, I'd consider either Fabspeed's or EPL's "long tube" design (I know EPL built and tested these, but I don't think they ever put them into production.) But, based on Fabspeed's own dyno data, the small improvement I'd gain by doing so, over their "short tube" design, doesn't justify my spending ~$2K for the upgrade. Then again, I'm not racing!

    I've attached the charts from dyno testing performed at EPL in December of 2009. At that time, my car was fitted with SRPicon+tuned file, and PSE, but still "wore" stock Porsche exhaust headers. I never had the car dyno'd subsequent to installing catless NHP "shorties." Maybe a return trip to EPL is overdue!

    Best regards,
    Croc'ed

    PS The moderators may wish to move the attached file to an appropriate library.
    Attached Files Attached Files
    Last edited by Croc'ed; 07-07-2011 at 06:37 PM.

  14. #14
    prodgers is offline Porsche Novelist
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    Re: Softronics vs Headers, which next?

    Quote Originally Posted by Croc'ed View Post
    prodgers:

    I'm not knocking Fabspeedicon one bit; their headers are works of art IMHO. Methinks the NHP design looks very similar to the Fabspeed's "shorties," and at the time I took advantage of special pricing on the NHP's (offered through Softronicicon.) If I were to buy headers today, I'd consider either Fabspeed's or EPL's "long tube" design (I know EPL built and tested these, but I don't think they ever put them into production.) But, based on Fabspeed's own dyno data, the small improvement I'd gain by doing so, over their "short tube" design, doesn't justify my spending ~$2K for the upgrade. Then again, I'm not racing!

    I've attached the charts from dyno testing performed at EPL in December of 2009. At that time, my car was fitted with SRPicon+tuned file, and PSE, but still "wore" stock Porsche exhaust headers. I never had the car dyno'd subsequent to installing catless NHP "shorties." Maybe a return trip to EPL is overdue!

    Best regards,
    Croc'ed

    PS The moderators may wish to move the attached file to an appropriate library.
    I was just wondering what the HP gain was on the NHP's is? did you feel a significant bump in power and tourque as I did after installing the headers ?
    "I love the smell of Carbon Fiber in the morning"

  15. #15
    Croc'ed's Avatar
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    Re: Softronics vs Headers, which next?

    Quote Originally Posted by prodgers View Post
    I was just wondering what the HP gain was on the NHP's is? did you feel a significant bump in power and tourque as I did after installing the headers ?
    My calibrated "butt dyno" says yes! The sound is pretty awesome, too.

  16. #16
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    Re: Softronics vs Headers, which next?

    You also got a small bump of hp with a test weight of 3300 lbs unless the dyno operator had a hard time fitting into the car.
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  17. #17
    Croc'ed's Avatar
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    Re: Softronics vs Headers, which next?

    Quote Originally Posted by tach miami View Post
    You also got a small bump of hp with a test weight of 3300 lbs unless the dyno operator had a hard time fitting into the car.
    tach miami:

    Good catch. I suppose he'd need to weigh about 400 lb., or else two people were sitting in the car (I don't think so!) Please explain how the car's weight influences the horsepower power calculation. I understand the effect of weight on frictional force (i.e. traction.) IIRC, the car was strapped down to the dynamometer (presumably for safety's sake, or to reduce rear wheel slippage, or possibly both.)

    I'm curious to know if the recorded weight was as measured on the dynamometer, or as input by the operator. Does anyone know the Mustang Dyno well enough to answer this? This may have influenced the recorded weight.
    Best regards,
    Croc'ed
    Metro NY PCA Deputy Chief DE Instructor

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    Re: Softronics vs Headers, which next?

    Quote Originally Posted by Croc'ed View Post
    I suppose he'd need to weigh about 400 lb., or else two people were sitting in the car (I don't think so!) Please explain how the car's weight influences the horsepower power calculation. I understand the effect of weight on frictional force (i.e. traction.) IIRC, the car was strapped down to the dynamometer (presumably for safety's sake, or to reduce rear wheel slippage, or possibly both.)

    I'm curious to know if the recorded weight was as measured on the dynamometer, or as input by the operator. Does anyone know the Mustang Dyno well enough to answer this? This may have influenced the recorded weight.
    Let's start with the idea that chassis dynos are tuning tools first, and because of that,
    are best used for back to back changes on your car, not for calculating an accurate SAE crank HP number.
    Secondly, because each dyno is going to have variables that cause different numbers,
    you want to use the same dyno with the same variables (except atmospheric adjustments) to get valid before and after numbers.

    Next, a Dynojet uses a constant mass drum to approximate load and it simulates roughly 2500lb.
    A Mustang uses electrical resistance to simulate load ie. an eddy current dyno. (the WCF is weather correction on your sheet)
    This simulated load feature allows the operator to simulate more conditions and steady state operation. (like an engine brake dyno)
    Because of that, the weight is entered so the computer can program the acceleration or load
    to approximate what your engine would really experience on the road in your car.
    Most Mustang guys use a default of 3300 lb. (anything entered over 2500 lb. will read less than a Dynojet 2500 lb drum load.)
    Engines will also experience slightly different numbers due to load differences because
    the different accelerations will introduce changes in temp/timing/fuel as the ECU moves through its maps.
    3300lb. isn't far off for a Cayman, most scale at around 3000lb., hold 105lb. fuel
    so a 195 lb driver would put you at 3300lb. Even if you've removed 55lb. and weigh 150lb.,
    that's still 3200lb with a full tank and that 3200lb. in the Mustang wouldn't change the outcome significantly.
    (besides it shouldn't matter because we're doing before and after tests with the non-WX variables constant on the same dyno)

    As you can see, if you start trying to compare different dynos (with their multiple different factors and resulting effects on your car)
    you will have a really nice apple and a really nice orange that have nothing to do with each other.
    Always control variables. This is why I've had problems with so many of the Cayman dynos on the web.
    They simply tend to ignore much of the control of variables, and often completely ignore them.
    Last edited by cpsu; 08-22-2011 at 04:36 PM.

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    Re: Softronics vs Headers, which next?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpsu View Post
    Let's start with the idea that chassis dynos are tuning tools first, and because of that,
    are best used for back to back changes on your car, not for calculating an accurate SAE crank HP number.
    Secondly, because each dyno is going to have variables that cause different numbers,
    you want to use the same dyno with the same variables (except atmospheric adjustments) to get valid before and after numbers.

    Next, a Dynojet uses a constant mass drum to appoximate load and it simulates roughly 2500lb.
    A Mustang uses electrical resistance to simulate load ie. an eddy current dyno. (the WCF is weather correction on your sheet)
    This simulated load feature allows the operator to simulate more conditions and steady state operation. (like an engine brake dyno)
    Because of that, the weight is entered so the computer can program the acceleration or load
    to approximate what your engine would really experience on the road in your car.
    Most Mustang guys use a default of 3300 lb. (anything entered over 2500 lb. will read less than a Dynojet 2500 lb drum load.)
    Engines will also experience slightly different numbers due to load differences because
    the different accelerations will introduce changes in temp/timing/fuel as the ECU moves through its maps.
    3300lb. isn't far off for a Cayman, most scale at around 3000lb., hold 105lb. fuel
    so a 195 lb driver would put you at 3300lb. Even if you've removed 55lb. and weigh 150lb.,
    that's still 3200lb with a full tank and that 3200lb. in the Mustang wouldn't change the outcome significantly.
    (besides it shouldn't matter because we're doing before and after tests with the non-WX variables constant on the same dyno)

    As you can see, if you start trying to compare different dynos (with their multiple different factors and resulting effects on your car)
    you will have a really nice apple and a really nice orange that have nothing to do with each other.
    Always control variables. This is why I've had problems with so many of the Cayman dynos on the web.
    They simply tend to ignore much of the control of variables, and often completely ignore them.
    cpsu:

    Thank you for the clarification. I am aware that WCF shows the "corrected" or "standard day" values. I also agree that the HP and Torque values, by themselves, are less important than the "relative" numbers (i.e. before and after a particular modification.) In this case, I was curious to see the difference with sport mode off (runs 1 & 2) and on (runs 3 & 4,) after retrofitting PSE to my car. The graphs look pretty similar to me, and I couldn't help but notice that the values kept "creeping" upwards on successive runs. I'm curious if this was more of an ECU "adaptation" than anything else.

    I'm also curious to compare the results almost three years later, with the only changes to the engine being the SRPicon+ (maybe, I'll check on this later tonight) and catless headers (definitely,) plus significantly more "break-in" miles. One of these days, I'll contact Tony at EPL to schedule another pull. Maybe after my DE season concludes in late October.
    Last edited by Croc'ed; 08-22-2011 at 03:59 PM.
    Best regards,
    Croc'ed
    Metro NY PCA Deputy Chief DE Instructor

  20. #20
    Mike_in OH's Avatar
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    Re: Softronics vs Headers, which next?

    Quote Originally Posted by Croc'ed View Post
    prodgers:

    I'm not knocking Fabspeedicon one bit; their headers are works of art IMHO. Methinks the NHP design looks very similar to the Fabspeed's "shorties," and at the time I took advantage of special pricing on the NHP's (offered through Softronicicon.) If I were to buy headers today, I'd consider either Fabspeed's or EPL's "long tube" design (I know EPL built and tested these, but I don't think they ever put them into production.) But, based on Fabspeed's own dyno data, the small improvement I'd gain by doing so, over their "short tube" design, doesn't justify my spending ~$2K for the upgrade. Then again, I'm not racing!

    I've attached the charts from dyno testing performed at EPL in December of 2009. At that time, my car was fitted with SRPicon+tuned file, and PSE, but still "wore" stock Porsche exhaust headers. I never had the car dyno'd subsequent to installing catless NHP "shorties." Maybe a return trip to EPL is overdue!

    Best regards,
    Croc'ed

    PS The moderators may wish to move the attached file to an appropriate library.
    Croc'ed:

    These are all at the RW figures?
    Did you have any baseline figures?
    What do you think the flash was worth by itself and where did you notice the increases?
    Thanks..

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