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Thread: Metal Flakes in Oil Filter

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    delman1012's Avatar
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    Metal Flakes in Oil Filter

    I changed the oil of my 06 CS with 28,000 miles two weeks ago. I noticed tiny metal flakes in the filter. The flakes were thinner than a sheet of paper and no more than 1/16" long or wide. There were maybe on average one flake for every two or three folds of the filter.

    I was not overly concerned, but my trusted mechanic recommended replacing the IMSicon bearing. It seems like the M97 motors don't or shouldn't have this problem, so can it be something else?

    There is currently one track day and about 500 miles on the oil now. Should I check the filter and see what I find, or wait a while longer. Should I give it about 1000 miles on this oil and make a decision from there?

    Thanks.


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    Re: Metal Flakes in Oil Filter

    I thought the 1st Gen Caymans has the IMSicon issue? Regardless, I would drive a bit and check the filter again. I'm not a mechanic or anything of the sort, it's just what I would do.

    Hope everything turns out ok.
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    Re: Metal Flakes in Oil Filter

    Quote Originally Posted by delman1012 View Post
    I changed the oil of my 06 CS with 28,000 miles two weeks ago. I noticed tiny metal flakes in the filter. The flakes were thinner than a sheet of paper and no more than 1/16" long or wide. There were maybe on average one flake for every two or three folds of the filter.

    I was not overly concerned, but my trusted mechanic recommended replacing the IMSicon bearing. It seems like the M97 motors don't or shouldn't have this problem, so can it be something else?

    There is currently one track day and about 500 miles on the oil now. Should I check the filter and see what I find, or wait a while longer. Should I give it about 1000 miles on this oil and make a decision from there?

    Thanks.
    Replacing the IMS on a M97 motor will be a big deal, given the motor will need to be pulled and the case split--way different than doing it on a M96 motor.

    With 28K on the car, you're way past any break in period so seeing metal flakes now would cause me some concern.

    I'd suggest checking the oil filter again, send the oil out for analysis and do the durametric cam deviation check, all of which will give you additional information.

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    Re: Metal Flakes in Oil Filter

    You can have your oil analyzed here: www.blackstonelabs.com. You'll need to get their sample containers. If you get a round tube container, pack it in a regular box for return shipping.

    I don't know if you have a problem, but it's completely normal to find traces of quite a few different metals in used oil, with zinc probably leading the bunch.

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    Re: Metal Flakes in Oil Filter

    So after about 1450 miles on new oil/filter and two track days (yellow) I took a look at the filter today. There was maybe 3 or 4 noticeable metal flakes and some tiny slivers. Compared to the last time when there was one noticeable flake every other fold of the filter, it seems that there is no serious issue with the engine. I will be sending an oil sample from the filter housing to Blackstone to see what they have to say.

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    Re: Metal Flakes in Oil Filter

    Any updates on this? Just had an oil change on my 06 CS last friday and I am in the exact same situation. The mechanic saw some very thin metal flakes, not many, but he is saying that there could potentially be some concern, even thought he doubt it will happen immediately. So now I feel somewhat worried, and am wondering what should I do with the car. I do have an extended warranty (not from Porsche), but I bet it will be a huge hassle dealing with the warranty company IF my engine goes.

    My thoughts as of today:

    1. Sell the cayman, get something dirt cheap and save some money for approx a year, then jump into a 09+ cayman so no IMSicon issue whatsoever.

    2. Keep the cayman, forget about it and worry after the engine goes (if it does)

    To be honest, I'm leaning towards the 1st one. But after just a few days of car hunting, I'm already a bit depressed just thinking of letting the car go.

    Anyone else that had a similar experience?

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    Re: Metal Flakes in Oil Filter

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Michaels View Post
    You can have your oil analyzed here: blackstonelabs.com. You'll need to get their sample containers. If you get a round tube container, pack it in a regular box for return shipping.

    I don't know if you have a problem, but it's completely normal to find traces of quite a few different metals in used oil, with zinc probably leading the bunch.

    +1 on Blackstone test and on the Durametric cam test.

    Tell Blackstone to look for timing chain guide plastic as well.

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    Re: Metal Flakes in Oil Filter

    php: No update from me. I have my donor motor sitting in my garage. Just got the engine hoist today but haven't had time to do the swap and the tear down and probably won't for a month or so. I will document the tear down extensively on Planet-9 as most folks never hear what their dealer finds and fixes. Fingers crossed it is just the IMSicon bearing but no further details. Still using it as a DD.

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    Re: Metal Flakes in Oil Filter

    Metal flakes are not an immeadiate reason for concern. Its pretty normal. Excessive flakes are a different story and determining what is excessive takes a bit of experience. Bits or chunks is a big no-no.

    None of the above sounds like something to worry about. You would probably find much the same on any other relatively new or tracked engine's oil filter.
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    Re: Metal Flakes in Oil Filter

    Quote Originally Posted by Flybot View Post
    Metal flakes are not an immeadiate reason for concern. Its pretty normal. Excessive flakes are a different story and determining what is excessive takes a bit of experience. Bits or chunks is a big no-no.

    None of the above sounds like something to worry about. You would probably find much the same on any other relatively new or tracked engine's oil filter.
    Yea, that is what I am thinking. I have no updates, still waiting for the oil sample analysis results.

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    Re: Metal Flakes in Oil Filter

    Update: Oil sample results came back. They said everything is normal and to not change a thing.

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    Re: Metal Flakes in Oil Filter

    Quote Originally Posted by delman1012 View Post
    Update: Oil sample results came back. They said everything is normal and to not change a thing.
    Glad you got good news Delman. I have the same situation on my 06 987 BS with the M97 IMSicon as you may recall. They have recommended an oil change in 1000 miles with analysis for a rule-out as you have done.

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    Re: Metal Flakes in Oil Filter

    Quote Originally Posted by michaelwalker123 View Post
    Glad you got good news Delman. I have the same situation on my 06 987 BS with the M97 IMSicon as you may recall. They have recommended an oil change in 1000 miles with analysis for a rule-out as you have done.
    were they evaluating the used *oil* or the metal flakes as well ...? my point being that blackstone doesn't know the significance of metal flakes but your oil itself tested fine.

    i intend to treat my built 3.6 as a consumable - if it dies catastrophically i'll dig up a used 3.8 and go w/ that.

    in any case i'm staying off the track until i add an accusump and don't mind losing the engine anyway.

    i have to say, though, i'm keeping the car forever -- i've never gotten such a great response from others and the driving is more than a bit like good fun.

    "When you're racing, it's life; anything that happens before or after ... is just waiting."

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    Re: Metal Flakes in Oil Filter

    Quote Originally Posted by Plainsman View Post
    were they evaluating the used *oil* or the metal flakes as well ...? my point being that blackstone doesn't know the significance of metal flakes but your oil itself tested fine.

    i intend to treat my built 3.6 as a consumable - if it dies catastrophically i'll dig up a used 3.8 and go w/ that.

    in any case i'm staying off the track until i add an accusump and don't mind losing the engine anyway.

    i have to say, though, i'm keeping the car forever -- i've never gotten such a great response from others and the driving is more than a bit like good fun.
    Good point. The used oil tested fine. They could not comment on the metal flakes, so the issue is still unresolved.

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    Re: Metal Flakes in Oil Filter

    Not wanting to start a new thread on the same subject matter... I changed the oil on my 05 987 base last week. I'm guessing it's the car's 3rd change (the first being early on in its life, the 2nd at 6000 miles a year ago when i got the car and 3rd just recently at 13,500). Given the car's low mileage, do these shavings (which came from my oil filter) look like bad news? No flakes or such in the oil filter that i could see. Thanks folks.

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    Re: Metal Flakes in Oil Filter

    That looks like grass and twigs. Can you post a clearer picture with some of that stuff on a white paper towel maybe?

    The whole issue is still unresolved. Nobody has had a engine failure after seeming some flakes, and nobody knows for sure where they are coming from.

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    Re: Metal Flakes in Oil Filter

    Those fines are pretty normal. It is the metal chunks or large flakes that are a problem.
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    sks
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    Re: Metal Flakes in Oil Filter

    Quote Originally Posted by CS-ICEMAN View Post
    Those fines are pretty normal. It is the metal chunks or large flakes that are a problem.
    Thanks...I can breath now.

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    Re: Metal Flakes in Oil Filter

    Update:

    Have not found any more flakes in the oil/filter after about a year but only a few thousand miles. I did have an oil leak which was reported by our indy while the car was still in warranty. Brought it to the dealer who said everything was fine just before the warranty ended.
    After the winter, the leak got more noticeable, so brought it back to the dealer. They confirmed it was an IMSicon seal leak and contacted PCNA to see if it would be covered. It wasn't covered of course which is BS as it was clearly reported that it was leaking before the warranty was up when the dealer said it was fine.

    A few questions:
    -Could it be that these flakes were bits of the seal that got into the oil, and not metal? Either way, it seems that the IMS bearing is not bad and there is no lingering problem with metal flakes.
    -The dealer said they had to remove my seats and adjust the engine timing. This seems unnecessary for replacing IMS and RMS seals. Anyone have any ideas about this?

    I am happy that there does not seem to be any problems with the engine, but I am annoyed that PCNA would not cover the repairs that should have been fixed while the car was under warranty, and the dealer screwed up by saying everything was fine when there was clearly an oil leak. Parts were cheap, but the labor was not. Also, apparently the new seals are covered under warranty for two years but not labor. So if the $200 worth of parts fail again, the $1500 of labor to replace them won't be covered? What a joke!

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    Re: Metal Flakes in Oil Filter

    There is a pending settlement with Porsche providing for reimbursement of IMSicon related repairs or engine replacement. You appear to be eligible under the settlement and should make a claim. For more details concerning the settlement, please contact me at 818.547.5100.

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