Results 1 to 16 of 16
  1. #1
    rbpeirce's Avatar
    rbpeirce is offline Porsche Enthusiast
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Venetia/McMurray, PA
    Posts
    217
    Downloads
    1
    Uploads
    0

    ATF in gasoline?

    I have an old (1977) MB where I mix ATF about 1% in the gasoline. It keeps the fuel line and top end clean -- valves, injectors, etc.

    Has anybody ever tried this in a current Porsche? The engines are much more technically advanced than engines from 34 years ago, so I wouldn't expect much. It might even cause problems. Nevertheless, I thought I would ask.


  2. #2
    kehr's Avatar
    kehr is offline Porsche Idealist
    500 post club
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Missouri
    Posts
    911
    Downloads
    15
    Uploads
    0

    Re: ATF in gasoline?

    New to me.

  3. #3
    K-Man S's Avatar
    K-Man S is offline Admin & Founder

    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Overland Park, Kansas, United States
    Posts
    30,134
    Images
    4203
    Downloads
    253
    Uploads
    118
    Blog Entries
    14
    My Classifieds
    Gamer IDs

    Gamertag: KenDude

    Re: ATF in gasoline?

    Sounds like an old wive's tale to me...

  4. #4
    MGLoch's Avatar
    MGLoch is offline Porsche Chatter
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    DE
    Posts
    25
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Re: ATF in gasoline?

    rbpeirce, so you really added ATF to your MG's fuel and saw a real difference?

    ATF is 85-90% base oil and 10-15% additives to modify the viscosity and reduce wear. How did the plugs look? I'm curious if you experienced greater fouling inside the combustion chamber. It's the additive package I would be concerned about, since it's probably not designed to be clean burning!

    But on your original question, I've never tried this and definitely would not. Between regular (every 3K (conventional oil) to 5K (synthetic oil) oil changes and avoiding discount gas stations, I haven't experienced any issues due to fuel fouling or valve train deposits in any of our vehicles over the years. I don't see the need to use any fuel or oil additives, just buy quality products to start with.

    In fact, I just replaced the fuel lines on my 97 Dodge Ram 4X4 because they were corroding from the outside. The inside of the lines were clean. This old beast has 128K miles, including about 60K burning ethanol blends. It sits outside all the time, starts great and runs great.
    Of course, the front U-joints fail every 50K miles, the intake manifold gasket went at 70k miles, the rear pinion seal at 75 and the outside mirrors started to fall off at 80K miles. The paint is starting to flake on the roof and I touch up body scratches with black gloss Rustoleum (flat black if I run out of gloss...) But I can't complain, the fuel system is clean!

  5. #5
    Walter's Avatar
    Walter is offline Porsche Purist 1,000 post club
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    WA
    Posts
    1,080
    Downloads
    11
    Uploads
    0

    Re: ATF in gasoline?

    Anyone here ever use Marvel Mystery Oil?

    ::Marvel Mystery Oil::

  6. #6
    txpcarlover's Avatar
    txpcarlover is offline Porsche Enthusiast
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Tx
    Posts
    116
    Downloads
    1
    Uploads
    0

    Re: ATF in gasoline?

    Read the Goldwing motorcycle forums. You'll find hundreds of majical mixtures for fuel and oil which supposedly work miracles......from Sea Foam to Amsoil to whatever. I share the experience of never using any of them, and never having had a problem on any of my vehicles (knock on wood).
    Hugh


    2007 Cayman 2.7, Guards Red
    Life is a Cabernet!

  7. #7
    GilFrank's Avatar
    GilFrank is offline Porsche Enthusiast
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    243
    Downloads
    12
    Uploads
    0

    Re: ATF in gasoline?

    Quote Originally Posted by MGLoch View Post
    rbpeirce, so you really added ATF to your MG's fuel and saw a real difference?

    ATF is 85-90% base oil and 10-15% additives to modify the viscosity and reduce wear. How did the plugs look? I'm curious if you experienced greater fouling inside the combustion chamber. It's the additive package I would be concerned about, since it's probably not designed to be clean burning!

    But on your original question, I've never tried this and definitely would not. Between regular (every 3K (conventional oil) to 5K (synthetic oil) oil changes and avoiding discount gas stations, I haven't experienced any issues due to fuel fouling or valve train deposits in any of our vehicles over the years. I don't see the need to use any fuel or oil additives, just buy quality products to start with.

    In fact, I just replaced the fuel lines on my 97 Dodge Ram 4X4 because they were corroding from the outside. The inside of the lines were clean. This old beast has 128K miles, including about 60K burning ethanol blends. It sits outside all the time, starts great and runs great.
    Of course, the front U-joints fail every 50K miles, the intake manifold gasket went at 70k miles, the rear pinion seal at 75 and the outside mirrors started to fall off at 80K miles. The paint is starting to flake on the roof and I touch up body scratches with black gloss Rustoleum (flat black if I run out of gloss...) But I can't complain, the fuel system is clean!
    MG:

    I agree with all you said except avoiding discount gas stations. Here's why: every tank truck that is loaded at every terminal has a USEPA required additive injected into the gasoline; it doesn't matter what station it is going to. There are only 2 or 3 additive manufacturers left, Chevron, Shell, and Lubrizol at last check. The difference between the additive that goes into BP or Chevron gas versus what goes into an independent's gas would require a research chemist to make the distinction, it's nil.

    The additive injection requirements are so stringent that we used to charge $0.0025 per gallon just for the record keeping, that didn't include the additive itself.

    The only issue I would have with an independent would be if they were only selling 5,000 gallons per month at their bait shop, where they might be having some water issues due to lack of turnover, but for the most part the Quik Trips, Sheetz' and Racetracs of the world are turning their tanks nearly once a day, and pulling from the same racks as ExxonMobil, Shell, etc.
    Gil Frank
    2010 Cayman S White, PASM, Sport Chrono, Sport Exhaust, Sport Shifter, Bi-xenons, 19" Carrera S wheels, Bose, Bluetooth

  8. #8
    txpcarlover's Avatar
    txpcarlover is offline Porsche Enthusiast
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Tx
    Posts
    116
    Downloads
    1
    Uploads
    0

    Re: ATF in gasoline?

    Quote Originally Posted by GilFrank View Post
    MG:

    I
    The only issue I would have with an independent would be if they were only selling 5,000 gallons per month at their bait shop, where they might be having some water issues due to lack of turnover, but for the most part the Quik Trips, Sheetz' and Racetracs of the world are turning their tanks nearly once a day, and pulling from the same racks as ExxonMobil, Shell, etc.
    Agree completely. Have a friend who drives the delivery trucks who tells me the same thing. I use whatever gas is cheapest and meets the standards. Always have. Never had a problem.
    Hugh


    2007 Cayman 2.7, Guards Red
    Life is a Cabernet!

  9. #9
    downshift's Avatar
    downshift is online now Porsche Idealist 500 post club
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    776
    Downloads
    71
    Uploads
    0

    Re: ATF in gasoline?

    I've heard of mixing ATF in fuel, but only in older cars, like your 1977 MB. I've also heard of pouring it (SLOWLY) down the carb while the engine is running, or letting it slowly get sucked into a vacuum line. This can really clean your combustion chambers, but you need to be really careful about hydrolock.

    I think one of the reasons it was used in the past was because 1) there were no good alternatives and 2) older cars need more of this type of cleaning than newer cars. I certainly wouldn't use it now, and certainly not on your modern Porsche.

    On the other hand, adding a bottle of Techron or Gumout Regane to the tank now and then won't hurt anything. I think some cheap gas stations don't put much of these cleaners in, or they use the weaker ones, barely meeting the minimum requirements or even not meeting them (to save money). Porsche even recommends Techron. To be sure, some cars need it more than others. I've had a couple of cars that really responded well to these cleaners, while on others, it seems to make no difference at all.

    If you car really has a problem with gummed up combustion chambers, a product like SeaFoam, or even distilled water, would be a better choice than ATF. But I seriously doubt your modern Porsche needs this. I did it on my 993, but I think my combustion chambers were pretty carbon fouled. It made a big difference.
    08 Cayman S, 6MT, PASM, Sport Chrono, Sport Seats & Steering Wheel, 19 Carrera Sport Wheels, PCM, Bose, Xenon, plus some other stuff not worth mentioning

  10. #10
    old dude's Avatar
    old dude is offline Porsche Specialist
    500 post club
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    732
    Downloads
    12
    Uploads
    0

    Re: ATF in gasoline?

    The "Good old boys" in the south would pour a quart of ATF down the carb [remember them?] to clean the valves. Or some other dumb reason. You did this while the engine was running. Not a chance I'd use ATF for other than it's intended pupose today.

  11. #11
    rbpeirce's Avatar
    rbpeirce is offline Porsche Enthusiast
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Venetia/McMurray, PA
    Posts
    217
    Downloads
    1
    Uploads
    0

    Re: ATF in gasoline?

    Quote Originally Posted by MGLoch View Post
    rbpeirce, so you really added ATF to your MG's fuel and saw a real difference?
    MB, not MG. I haven't noticed much difference because my system was pretty clean to begin with. I am the only owner. Several folks on the M-100 site commented about needing to replace their fuel filters several times. I never had to do it once.

    I started to use it only because it is reputed to keep everything clean and carbon deposits down. I have noticed a very slight increase in compression, so there may have been a little carbon build up on the valves. I wouldn't be surprised after 33 years and 100,000 miles. However, I think you would be hard pressed to find much measurable improvement on my car. OTOH, there haven't been any negatives either. Other owners had better results.

    The key may be, as somebody mentioned, really old cars, especially if they haven't been well cared for.

  12. #12
    downshift's Avatar
    downshift is online now Porsche Idealist 500 post club
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    776
    Downloads
    71
    Uploads
    0

    Re: ATF in gasoline?

    Quote Originally Posted by rbpeirce View Post
    MB, not MG. I haven't noticed much difference because my system was pretty clean to begin with. I am the only owner. Several folks on the M-100 site commented about needing to replace their fuel filters several times. I never had to do it once.

    I started to use it only because it is reputed to keep everything clean and carbon deposits down. I have noticed a very slight increase in compression, so there may have been a little carbon build up on the valves. I wouldn't be surprised after 33 years and 100,000 miles. However, I think you would be hard pressed to find much measurable improvement on my car. OTOH, there haven't been any negatives either. Other owners had better results.

    The key may be, as somebody mentioned, really old cars, especially if they haven't been well cared for.
    It's quite possible that after 33 years and 100,000 miles there is carbon build-up on your valves, in your combustion chambers, etc. Older cars are more susceptible to this than newer ones, as the combustion isn't as highly controlled. Cleaning it out could make a big difference. But I would recommend using something designed for this, not ATF. Use Techron or Regane in your fuel, to start with. If that doesn't do it, get more aggressive, with something like SeaFoam, although I wouldn't pour it in my crankcase like the video suggests.

    Sea Foam | How to Use Sea Foam Motor Treatment
    08 Cayman S, 6MT, PASM, Sport Chrono, Sport Seats & Steering Wheel, 19 Carrera Sport Wheels, PCM, Bose, Xenon, plus some other stuff not worth mentioning

  13. #13
    txpcarlover's Avatar
    txpcarlover is offline Porsche Enthusiast
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Tx
    Posts
    116
    Downloads
    1
    Uploads
    0

    Re: ATF in gasoline?

    Quote Originally Posted by old dude View Post
    The "Good old boys" in the south would pour a quart of ATF down the carb [remember them?] to clean the valves. Or some other dumb reason. You did this while the engine was running. Not a chance I'd use ATF for other than it's intended pupose today.
    I resemble that remark....grew up in NC. Saw my Dad do that with our 1954 Ford (what a sweet ride....wish I still had it, fender skirts and curb finders and all). Smoked like crazy for about 5 minutes. Did the little 239CI V8 run any better? With a two-speed Fordamatic transmission, who could tell?
    Hugh


    2007 Cayman 2.7, Guards Red
    Life is a Cabernet!

  14. #14
    ragbagger is offline Porsche Chatter
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    22
    Downloads
    15
    Uploads
    0

    Cool Re: ATF in gasoline?

    Sure wouldn't help the catalytic converters much and they ain't cheap
    Brad
    '09 CS

  15. #15
    rbpeirce's Avatar
    rbpeirce is offline Porsche Enthusiast
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Venetia/McMurray, PA
    Posts
    217
    Downloads
    1
    Uploads
    0

    Re: ATF in gasoline?

    Quote Originally Posted by ragbagger View Post
    Sure wouldn't help the catalytic converters much and they ain't cheap
    I've been running it for several years in my 1977 MB as have many others in their old MBs. No problems to report. OTOH, I am told modern engines are not as prone to carbon build-up so ATF isn't necessary.

  16. #16
    Rockster is offline Porsche Idealist 500 post club
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Livermore, CA
    Posts
    796
    Downloads
    2
    Uploads
    0

    Re: ATF in gasoline?

    Quote Originally Posted by rbpeirce View Post
    I have an old (1977) MB where I mix ATF about 1% in the gasoline. It keeps the fuel line and top end clean -- valves, injectors, etc.

    Has anybody ever tried this in a current Porsche? The engines are much more technically advanced than engines from 34 years ago, so I wouldn't expect much. It might even cause problems. Nevertheless, I thought I would ask.
    Benefits of doing this questionable. Fuel is a solvent and will work to keep the fuel lines and top end clean.

    Modern gasoline has a tiny bit (IIRC around 0.5%) of oil added anyway to provides some lubrication to the injectors and some resistance to corrosion for any ferrous metals in the fuel system.

    Just buy name brand gas of the proper octane rating from a busy station and leave the ATF in the AT.

    Sincerely,

    Rockster.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •