Would You Buy an Electric Boxster/Cayman?
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Thread: Would You Buy an Electric Boxster/Cayman?

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    Would You Buy an Electric Boxster/Cayman?

    All of the major auto manufacturers are exploring electrification in one way or another, and many are even considering it for their sports cars. BMW has the i8 PHEV; Audi had the poorly-selling R8 e-tron; Acura has the hybrid NSX and has developed a pure-EV NSX prototype with separately controlled motors on each wheel; and even Ferrari has the hybrid LaFerrari. Meanwhile, the new Supra is rumored to be a hybrid; Ford has talked about a hybrid Mustang; and even GM has trademarked "E-Ray" (though the next Corvette is almost certainly a mid-engined V8).

    Porsche seems to be one of the most serious about pursuing electrification in performance vehicles, as they charge ahead with the Mission-E.

    If the next Boxster/Cayman after the 718 is an EV, would you buy it? What if it's a plug-in hybrid with a further-downsized four-cylinder or three-cylinder engine (like the i8 with its 1.5L turbo inline-3)? What if its performance is even better than the 718S, with an electric Boxster/Cayman S rivaling the current performance of the 991.2?

    It seems inevitable that European sports cars will go electric, but less so for American sports cars. Would you switch to a Corvette or a Ford GT if the Europeans go full-electric and the Americans don't? Would you limit yourself to only driving used sports cars? Or would you embrace EVs as the future of sports cars?

    Personally, I wouldn't trade my V8 for an electric motor, but I wouldn't rule out the possibility of buying an electric sports car at some time in the future, assuming the manufacturers get the driving dynamics right. EVs have some advantages over ICE vehicles for performance (maximum torque at 0 RPM, instant throttle response, low center-of-gravity), but also some disadvantages (weight, cost, thermal limits, reduced performance as the battery drains). I'm guessing that the first generation of EV sports cars will be worse in terms of price/performance than their ICE counterparts, but that eventually the balance will shift with advances in battery technology and economies of scale.

    Then, of course, there's the issue of sound. How important is that to you? Is it an essential part of the driving experience, or something that is unimportant compared to acceleration and handling? Would you be satisfied with a synthetic soundtrack played through the audio system, if it was indistinguishable from the real thing from inside the vehicle?

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    Re: Would You Buy an Electric Boxster/Cayman?

    Ugh... NO

    Seriously, if I were to by an EV, it would be a purpose built EV, not just a electric motor and battery stuck in the shell of a fossil fuel model.
    Seriously Number 2... while Europeans may "lead" the industry in providing EV's, I doubt if they will abandon fossil fuel models in the near future.
    Seriously Number 3 ... There will be a day when it just won't be possible, much less "cool" to transport in anything other than in a renewable fuel vehicle. Lets all say a prayer that the earth should last that long.
    Regards. and forgive the apocalyptic references/alarms..
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    Re: Would You Buy an Electric Boxster/Cayman?

    Just say no to fake sounds. Ugh.
    Delivered 6/4/13: 2013 Boxster S, 6MT, racing yellow/black, full leather, premium package, adaptive sport seats, PASM, PTV, Bose, a few other goodies
    In the garage: 2011 Lotus Evora S, 2003 350Z Track edition, 2014 Xterra Pro-4X for detested winter and mud season
    Everything I know about emoticons I learned from Team LimeGold.

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    Re: Would You Buy an Electric Boxster/Cayman?

    This is basically a moot question. On July 29, 2011, President Obama announced an agreement with thirteen large automakers to increase fuel economy to 54.5 miles per gallon for cars and light-duty trucks by model year 2025. Model year 2018 is already offered on some models. So like it or not electric cars are the wave of the future.

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    Re: Would You Buy an Electric Boxster/Cayman?

    Quote Originally Posted by fast1 View Post
    This is basically a moot question. On July 29, 2011, President Obama announced an agreement with thirteen large automakers to increase fuel economy to 54.5 miles per gallon for cars and light-duty trucks by model year 2025. Model year 2018 is already offered on some models. So like it or not electric cars are the wave of the future.
    Well, yeah, but then the election happened, and now the EPA is reviewing those standards and will likely roll them back.

    In the long-term I agree that EVs are the future. But I think that long-term will arrive sooner in Europe (say 5-10 years) versus the US (say 20-30 years).

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    Re: Would You Buy an Electric Boxster/Cayman?

    Quote Originally Posted by fast1 View Post
    This is basically a moot question. On July 29, 2011, President Obama announced an agreement with thirteen large automakers to increase fuel economy to 54.5 miles per gallon for cars and light-duty trucks by model year 2025. Model year 2018 is already offered on some models. So like it or not electric cars are the wave of the future.
    Are you sure that is still true? If it has not been retracted, it will be.

    To the OP: No. Too much weight for a sports car. I understand that Porsche has dropped the hybrid version of the 911 (992) that was under development due to weight and handling issues.
    2014 Boxster S (981). Click here for my European Delivery video.

    2018 Carrera 4 (991.2) inbound for July 6th European Delivery: (Leipzig, Czech Republic, Austria, Slovakia, Hungary, Romania, Serbia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Croatia, Slovenia, Italy, France, Switzerland, Stuttgart). Target: Wife - Dracula's castle, Me - The Transfagarasan Highway 3000 miles and 55 hours of driving in 18 days. That's how we roll.

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    Re: Would You Buy an Electric Boxster/Cayman?

    Quote Originally Posted by RoninX View Post
    Well, yeah, but then the election happened, and now the EPA is reviewing those standards and will likely roll them back.

    In the long-term I agree that EVs are the future. But I think that long-term will arrive sooner in Europe (say 5-10 years) versus the US (say 20-30 years).
    Not so fast. There are a lot of things that Trump thinks he can do, but he is finding that there are some serious obstacles to his initiatives. Here's a short article touching on those obstacles. So I wouldn't dismiss that 54 MPG requirement that quickly.
    https://www.brookings.edu/blog/plane...duty-vehicles/

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    Re: Would You Buy an Electric Boxster/Cayman?

    Quote Originally Posted by fast1 View Post
    Not so fast. There are a lot of things that Trump thinks he can do, but he is finding that there are some serious obstacles to his initiatives. Here's a short article touching on those obstacles. So I wouldn't dismiss that 54 MPG requirement that quickly.
    https://www.brookings.edu/blog/plane...duty-vehicles/
    I agree with your point when Congress is involved. However, swift things can happen if only Obama agreed. Note TPP, Paris climate accord and many other regulations.
    2014 Boxster S (981). Click here for my European Delivery video.

    2018 Carrera 4 (991.2) inbound for July 6th European Delivery: (Leipzig, Czech Republic, Austria, Slovakia, Hungary, Romania, Serbia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Croatia, Slovenia, Italy, France, Switzerland, Stuttgart). Target: Wife - Dracula's castle, Me - The Transfagarasan Highway 3000 miles and 55 hours of driving in 18 days. That's how we roll.

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    Re: Would You Buy an Electric Boxster/Cayman?

    If Porsche designed a 918-like Cayman and I could afford it, you bet I would buy it.
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    Re: Would You Buy an Electric Boxster/Cayman?

    In a word, no.

    I'd buy an electric family hauler/luxury car, because in those vehicles silence is golden. But a sports car? I associate the noise as part of the visceral experience vital to the mission statement, so no mas.
    The garage:
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    Re: Would You Buy an Electric Boxster/Cayman?

    No, but I would buy an electric coffee maker. Oh wait , I have 3 of those.

    Cheers
    Last edited by ralarcon; 06-12-2017 at 07:13 AM.

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    Re: Would You Buy an Electric Boxster/Cayman?

    CAFE rules need to be abolished. There is plenty of energy in the post-Obama era, while millions have jumped on the fuel economy train for their own reasons. CAFE has lost its uefulness.

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    Re: Would You Buy an Electric Boxster/Cayman?

    A hybrid Boxster or Cayman - similar in approach to a 918 but at 1/10th the price - would be very attractive. With the current range issues and lack of fast-charging infrastructure, a full electric vehicle wouldn't meet my needs. I'd buy a hybrid in a heartbeat assuming performance is on par or better with the current 718 S, and it doesn't come with a weight penalty or look anything like an i8.
    2018 Boxster S, 6-speed, GT Silver (in the ED queue)
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    Re: Would You Buy an Electric Boxster/Cayman?

    For the OP, no. I saw a Fiskar next to me the other day. Never. Its like saying Baseball is too long, lets make it 6 innings and two outs per inning. Fine, do it. But its not baseball. Sports cars without sound are just (IMO) lame. BTW, there was a Boxster EV prototype in 2011. Porsche Publicly Debuts its Electric Boxster E, But It?s Not For Sale | Car and Driver Blog There is nothing new here. Porsche was working to develop three electric Boxster prototypes, and last week three Boxster Es made their public debut at the Michelin Challenge Bibendum in Berlin. Of Porsche’s three electric test Boxsters, one sports all-wheel drive in the form of an electric motor on the front and rear axle while the other two are rear-wheel drive. Porsche claims the dual-motor Boxster E delivers Boxster S levels of driving dynamics, including a 5.5-second 0-to-62 run on the way to a top speed limited (would that be electronically?) to 124 mph


    Quote Originally Posted by fast1 View Post
    Not so fast. There are a lot of things that Trump thinks he can do, but he is finding that there are some serious obstacles to his initiatives. Here's a short article touching on those obstacles. So I wouldn't dismiss that 54 MPG requirement that quickly.
    https://www.brookings.edu/blog/plane...duty-vehicles/
    Oh sigh. If I get this incorrect, please feel free to correct it. Unlike you, I'd laugh at the 54 MPG and here is why.

    1. Cafe standards are a joke with a pittance of a fine. "Nobody" really cares. You pay the fine now. They have no meat. Even thought the fine was tripled, triple nothing is still nothing. They are not going to stop anyone from buying $100K cars. And don't forget the fines are spread across the corporate structure, so that includes all VAG. Build a lot of EV for commuters. This isn't the EU where the fines are stiff.

    2. Opinion, of course, and keeping this to the statutes and not a political discussion, Consider the source of your article, an appointee of one political party from within the EPA. You don't think he has an agenda? I would not believe anything from any "think tank" with an agenda, from either side of the political spectrum. Who wants what they built for 8 years taken apart by the next 8 years? There needs to be balance, a middle ground of analysis, and I doubt you will get that from someone with a vested interested. Its like all the 981 owners criticizing the 718 buyers Who wants the last 6 years of NA Flat 6 destroyed by FI flat 4? Vested interests.

    3. Now the statutes. The 54 MPG thing is frozen. Don't plan it happening. It's the fluff, the piece people see up front. Its like a "trailer" for a movie. Its what they want you to see. You need to look at what's really going on and some CAFE standards is just the advertising. Look at the innards, the guts. They are taking the EPA apart. And doing so, I believe, for "jobs". Its got nothing to do with "OMG, the world coming to an end!" No, its about US workers making money. Its always about money. No jobs? then it doesn't matter if we all die in 2200 from the world burning up like Venus. How do you do that without it being easily undone? Well not by writing regulations that can be undone. You do it in statute. And not that yearly "Abolish the EPA" bill that never passes. "Nobody" wants dirty air or polluted water. Anyone born after 1980 has no clue as to what real pollution looks like in the US. This isn't 1967 anymore.

    a. HR1431 has passed the house and sits in Senate committee today. TL;DR? This makes fundamental changes to the "Science Advisory Board" . This board advises the Head of the EPA. Read the changes of board membership. They seem to me to change it from "science" to "business" with a touch of science with no vested interest of lobbyists AND everything must be made public The EPA and the board must make public all reports and relevant scientific information at the same time they are received by the board;

    b. HR1430 has passed the house and sits in Senate
    committee today. TL;DR? This levies requirements on the EPA. "The Administrator shall not propose, finalize, or disseminate a covered action unless all scientific and technical information relied on to support such covered action is publicly available online ... in a manner that does not exceed $1,000,000 per fiscal year"

    4. Which brings us to the budget that everyone likes to talk about because the proposal guts the EPA reducing it to 67% of previous funding. But anyone who took Civics 101 knows that only the House can create spending bills and its the House that decided how much money is allocated to various departments, not presidents. The Presidents proposal can be ignored. This happens all the time. Now look closely at HR1430. It doesn't matter how much money is allocated, if I read this right, the law will dictate how much get spends. Does $1M sound like a lot today? BTW an action is "the term ‘covered action’ means a risk, exposure, or hazard assessment, criteria document, standard, limitation, regulation, regulatory impact analysis, or guidance;"

    What does this mean? The public WILL hear "OMG, they cut $$$. We are all going to die and Miami will be under water by July " from the media. Or the Congress ignored the requests and did what they want. The Public will only vaguely hear something about CAFE standards. Most people don't care because everyone knows you never get EPA mileage - you know YMMV. But no one will hear when if HR1430 and/or 1431 passes unless the President holds it up in a photo op, and few people watch those things anyway. IMO, its what they do in statute that matters, not some regulations.

    Now there are some that will tell you that CA will go rogue. Ahh, no. That pesky Constitution gets in the way with the Supremacy clause. See http://www.planet-9.com/general-off-topic/132458-whine-day-43.html#post1753754. States cannot make treaties. Only the US Senate can ratify a treaty. Federal law, AFAIK, supersedes state of local law. States can make things more restrictive. For example, the NHTSA might not have any sound regulations on your car. However, a state can say that your car cannot exceed X number of DB imposing a standard. And for those that think "well some states have legalized some recreational drugs". If someone smokes some marijuana on federal land within one of those states, gets caught, see what happens. Here is an example. Legal in DC. Illegal on federal land. Go directly to jail.

    Last edited by chows4us; 06-12-2017 at 08:02 AM.

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    Re: Would You Buy an Electric Boxster/Cayman?

    Quote Originally Posted by chows4us View Post
    For the OP, no. I saw a Fiskar next to me the other day. Never. Its like saying Baseball is too long, lets make it 6 innings and two outs per inning. Fine, do it. But its not baseball. Sports cars without sound are just (IMO) lame. BTW, there was a Boxster EV prototype in 2011. Porsche Publicly Debuts its Electric Boxster E, But It?s Not For Sale | Car and Driver Blog There is nothing new here. Porsche was working to develop three electric Boxster prototypes, and last week three Boxster Es made their public debut at the Michelin Challenge Bibendum in Berlin. Of Porsche’s three electric test Boxsters, one sports all-wheel drive in the form of an electric motor on the front and rear axle while the other two are rear-wheel drive. Porsche claims the dual-motor Boxster E delivers Boxster S levels of driving dynamics, including a 5.5-second 0-to-62 run on the way to a top speed limited (would that be electronically?) to 124 mph




    Oh sigh. If I get this incorrect, please feel free to correct it. Unlike you, I'd laugh at the 54 MPG and here is why.

    1. Cafe standards are a joke with a pittance of a fine. "Nobody" really cares. You pay the fine now. They have no meat. Even thought the fine was tripled, triple nothing is still nothing. They are not going to stop anyone from buying $100K cars. And don't forget the fines are spread across the corporate structure, so that includes all VAG. Build a lot of EV for commuters. This isn't the EU where the fines are stiff.

    2. Opinion, of course, and keeping this to the statutes and not a political discussion, Consider the source of your article, an appointee of one political party from within the EPA. You don't think he has an agenda? I would not believe anything from any "think tank" with an agenda, from either side of the political spectrum. Who wants what they built for 8 years taken apart by the next 8 years? There needs to be balance, a middle ground of analysis, and I doubt you will get that from someone with a vested interested. Its like all the 981 owners criticizing the 718 buyers Who wants the last 6 years of NA Flat 6 destroyed by FI flat 4? Vested interests.

    3. Now the statutes. The 54 MPG thing is frozen. Don't plan it happening. It's the fluff, the piece people see up front. Its like a "trailer" for a movie. Its what they want you to see. You need to look at what's really going on and some CAFE standards is just the advertising. Look at the innards, the guts. They are taking the EPA apart. And doing so, I believe, for "jobs". Its got nothing to do with "OMG, the world coming to an end!" No, its about US workers making money. Its always about money. No jobs? then it doesn't matter if we all die in 2200 from the world burning up like Venus. How do you do that without it being easily undone? Well not by writing regulations that can be undone. You do it in statute. And not that yearly "Abolish the EPA" bill that never passes. "Nobody" wants dirty air or polluted water. Anyone born after 1980 has no clue as to what real pollution looks like in the US. This isn't 1967 anymore.

    a. HR1431 has passed the house and sits in Senate committee today. TL;DR? This makes fundamental changes to the "Science Advisory Board" . This board advises the Head of the EPA. Read the changes of board membership. They seem to me to change it from "science" to "business" with a touch of science with no vested interest of lobbyists AND everything must be made public The EPA and the board must make public all reports and relevant scientific information at the same time they are received by the board;

    b. HR1430 has passed the house and sits in Senate
    committee today. TL;DR? This levies requirements on the EPA. "The Administrator shall not propose, finalize, or disseminate a covered action unless all scientific and technical information relied on to support such covered action is publicly available online ... in a manner that does not exceed $1,000,000 per fiscal year"

    4. Which brings us to the budget that everyone likes to talk about because the proposal guts the EPA reducing it to 67% of previous funding. But anyone who took Civics 101 knows that only the House can create spending bills and its the House that decided how much money is allocated to various departments, not presidents. The Presidents proposal can be ignored. This happens all the time. Now look closely at HR1430. It doesn't matter how much money is allocated, if I read this right, the law will dictate how much get spends. Does $1M sound like a lot today? BTW an action is "the term ‘covered action’ means a risk, exposure, or hazard assessment, criteria document, standard, limitation, regulation, regulatory impact analysis, or guidance;"

    What does this mean? The public WILL hear "OMG, they cut $$$. We are all going to die and Miami will be under water by July " from the media. Or the Congress ignored the requests and did what they want. The Public will only vaguely hear something about CAFE standards. Most people don't care because everyone knows you never get EPA mileage - you know YMMV. But no one will hear when if HR1430 and/or 1431 passes unless the President holds it up in a photo op, and few people watch those things anyway. IMO, its what they do in statute that matters, not some regulations.

    Now there are some that will tell you that CA will go rogue. Ahh, no. That pesky Constitution gets in the way with the Supremacy clause. See http://www.planet-9.com/general-off-topic/132458-whine-day-43.html#post1753754. States cannot make treaties. Only the US Senate can ratify a treaty. Federal law, AFAIK, supersedes state of local law. States can make things more restrictive. For example, the NHTSA might not have any sound regulations on your car. However, a state can say that your car cannot exceed X number of DB imposing a standard. And for those that think "well some states have legalized some recreational drugs". If someone smokes some marijuana on federal land within one of those states, gets caught, see what happens. Here is an example. Legal in DC. Illegal on federal land. Go directly to jail.

    You know, bottom line is that the internal combustion engine is very inefficient. There is no need for CAFE standards, because soon the battery storage issue will be resolved. Electric cars will be used for transportation, and sports cars will be an anachronism. Some manufacturers will continue to name these electrical, transportation appliances 911, or Corvette, but that will fade quickly. If you look at the market, Utility Vehicles far outsell sports cars. Transportation, will be dominated by electrical vehicles of utility for the general public. And this future, in my opinion , is inexorable.

    Cheers

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    Re: Would You Buy an Electric Boxster/Cayman?

    First lets make a distinction between an electric vehicle and a hybrid. Would I want an electric sports car, i.e. the first Tesla? The answer is NO. As for a hybrid with a smaller engine than the 718, an energy storage system, (remember Porsche has worked with both batteries and flywheels), and an electric motor, then the answer is yes. I agree that this is an inevitable evolution of the car. I'll also agree that the end result will be a car with far better performance than we have now. Time will tell. PS when I took the Porsche factory tour they mentioned they were expanding the factory to include "electric" cars. I did not ask what model that might be or if they were talking hybrid or all electric. But the electrics/hybrids are coming!
    Last edited by RickH; 06-12-2017 at 11:12 AM. Reason: error

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    Re: Would You Buy an Electric Boxster/Cayman?

    Quote Originally Posted by chows4us View Post
    For the OP, no. I saw a Fiskar next to me the other day. Never. Its like saying Baseball is too long, lets make it 6 innings and two outs per inning. Fine, do it. But its not baseball. Sports cars without sound are just (IMO) lame. BTW, there was a Boxster EV prototype in 2011. Porsche Publicly Debuts its Electric Boxster E, But It?s Not For Sale | Car and Driver Blog There is nothing new here. Porsche was working to develop three electric Boxster prototypes, and last week three Boxster Es made their public debut at the Michelin Challenge Bibendum in Berlin. Of Porsche’s three electric test Boxsters, one sports all-wheel drive in the form of an electric motor on the front and rear axle while the other two are rear-wheel drive. Porsche claims the dual-motor Boxster E delivers Boxster S levels of driving dynamics, including a 5.5-second 0-to-62 run on the way to a top speed limited (would that be electronically?) to 124 mph




    Oh sigh. If I get this incorrect, please feel free to correct it. Unlike you, I'd laugh at the 54 MPG and here is why.

    1. Cafe standards are a joke with a pittance of a fine. "Nobody" really cares. You pay the fine now. They have no meat. Even thought the fine was tripled, triple nothing is still nothing. They are not going to stop anyone from buying $100K cars. And don't forget the fines are spread across the corporate structure, so that includes all VAG. Build a lot of EV for commuters. This isn't the EU where the fines are stiff.

    2. Opinion, of course, and keeping this to the statutes and not a political discussion, Consider the source of your article, an appointee of one political party from within the EPA. You don't think he has an agenda? I would not believe anything from any "think tank" with an agenda, from either side of the political spectrum. Who wants what they built for 8 years taken apart by the next 8 years? There needs to be balance, a middle ground of analysis, and I doubt you will get that from someone with a vested interested. Its like all the 981 owners criticizing the 718 buyers Who wants the last 6 years of NA Flat 6 destroyed by FI flat 4? Vested interests.

    3. Now the statutes. The 54 MPG thing is frozen. Don't plan it happening. It's the fluff, the piece people see up front. Its like a "trailer" for a movie. Its what they want you to see. You need to look at what's really going on and some CAFE standards is just the advertising. Look at the innards, the guts. They are taking the EPA apart. And doing so, I believe, for "jobs". Its got nothing to do with "OMG, the world coming to an end!" No, its about US workers making money. Its always about money. No jobs? then it doesn't matter if we all die in 2200 from the world burning up like Venus. How do you do that without it being easily undone? Well not by writing regulations that can be undone. You do it in statute. And not that yearly "Abolish the EPA" bill that never passes. "Nobody" wants dirty air or polluted water. Anyone born after 1980 has no clue as to what real pollution looks like in the US. This isn't 1967 anymore.

    a. HR1431 has passed the house and sits in Senate committee today. TL;DR? This makes fundamental changes to the "Science Advisory Board" . This board advises the Head of the EPA. Read the changes of board membership. They seem to me to change it from "science" to "business" with a touch of science with no vested interest of lobbyists AND everything must be made public The EPA and the board must make public all reports and relevant scientific information at the same time they are received by the board;

    b. HR1430 has passed the house and sits in Senate
    committee today. TL;DR? This levies requirements on the EPA. "The Administrator shall not propose, finalize, or disseminate a covered action unless all scientific and technical information relied on to support such covered action is publicly available online ... in a manner that does not exceed $1,000,000 per fiscal year"

    4. Which brings us to the budget that everyone likes to talk about because the proposal guts the EPA reducing it to 67% of previous funding. But anyone who took Civics 101 knows that only the House can create spending bills and its the House that decided how much money is allocated to various departments, not presidents. The Presidents proposal can be ignored. This happens all the time. Now look closely at HR1430. It doesn't matter how much money is allocated, if I read this right, the law will dictate how much get spends. Does $1M sound like a lot today? BTW an action is "the term ‘covered action’ means a risk, exposure, or hazard assessment, criteria document, standard, limitation, regulation, regulatory impact analysis, or guidance;"

    What does this mean? The public WILL hear "OMG, they cut $$$. We are all going to die and Miami will be under water by July " from the media. Or the Congress ignored the requests and did what they want. The Public will only vaguely hear something about CAFE standards. Most people don't care because everyone knows you never get EPA mileage - you know YMMV. But no one will hear when if HR1430 and/or 1431 passes unless the President holds it up in a photo op, and few people watch those things anyway. IMO, its what they do in statute that matters, not some regulations.

    Now there are some that will tell you that CA will go rogue. Ahh, no. That pesky Constitution gets in the way with the Supremacy clause. See http://www.planet-9.com/general-off-topic/132458-whine-day-43.html#post1753754. States cannot make treaties. Only the US Senate can ratify a treaty. Federal law, AFAIK, supersedes state of local law. States can make things more restrictive. For example, the NHTSA might not have any sound regulations on your car. However, a state can say that your car cannot exceed X number of DB imposing a standard. And for those that think "well some states have legalized some recreational drugs". If someone smokes some marijuana on federal land within one of those states, gets caught, see what happens. Here is an example. Legal in DC. Illegal on federal land. Go directly to jail.

    I'll approach this from the car manufacturer's perspective. When CAFE standards are announced, car manufacturers take them seriously. They may not be able to meet them but they will make a good faith effort to do so. Developing the technologies and then tooling up to meet these ambitious MPG goals takes an enormous amount of time and money. The effort takes many years, and the factories are in the midst of making the transition. Changing goals with changing presidents is not easy to execute, much like it's not easy to change the direction of a massive oil tanker.
    Bottom line is that cars in 2025 will be far more fuel efficient than they are today. Even pessimistic forecasts put the number in the upper 40 MPG range. ICE technology can not achieve this goal unless people would be willing to purchase 1500 lb cars, and we know that's not going to happen. People want large vehicles, preferably SUVs. So the only short term solution is battery powered. Attached is a link to a treatise on this subject: http://www.detroitnews.com/story/bus...cafe/87256278/

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    Re: Would You Buy an Electric Boxster/Cayman?

    Well, I have a lot of experience with electric motors and I kinda like em. Instant 100% torque, quiet operation, linear torque curve, and very high reliability all appeal to me. They still have a few hurdles to jump before I bite such as excessive weight, short range, battery heat management under heavy load, recharging availability, and price. Once those challenges are overcome I am all in. I don't need loud to have fun in a sports car.
    2009 Cayman 2.9L PDK with a few tweaks
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    Re: Would You Buy an Electric Boxster/Cayman?

    Quote Originally Posted by fast1 View Post
    I'll approach this from the car manufacturer's perspective. When CAFE standards are announced, car manufacturers take them seriously. They may not be able to meet them but they will make a good faith effort to do so. Developing the technologies and then tooling up to meet these ambitious MPG goals takes an enormous amount of time and money. The effort takes many years, and the factories are in the midst of making the transition. Changing goals with changing presidents is not easy to execute, much like it's not easy to change the direction of a massive oil tanker.
    They took them seriously in 1975 because when a car got 8 mpg and the fine was $55 that was a lot of money. In 2016 the fine was STILL $55, a joke.

    This isn't about the alamist global warming stuff. Its about money. Its about jobs. Its about the almighty dollar. And in the end, profit always wins. Read this https://autoalliance.org/wp-content/...016-Signed.pdf In the end, Porsche, and all the rest of the big auto makers want $$$. Those standards depress the industry, and Porsche is a member of the alliance.

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    Re: Would You Buy an Electric Boxster/Cayman?

    A hybrid with the kind of performance of the 918 at a fraction of its cost would be very nice indeed. Also, the argument that a new government will roll back regulations and automakers will automatically follow is naive. Folks in industry (like mine) are planning for the future, 10-20 years down the road and not just for the next administration and its whims. The buzzword is sustainability. Even for an automaker for Porsche that has a lineup of high performance autos, that is the mantra. Plus, companies do business all over the world and we have to be able to sell the products we make in the US in other countries too. We have all sorts of restrictions on the kinds of chemicals we can use for manufacturing our products and the list is only growing, not shrinking. If the EU says we can't use something, we don't because we don't make products just for the US. China is a big market for us too with its own set of regulations. Global players have to be careful or they will be left behind. And if anybody has ever spent any length of time in a large city in Asia, you would be clamoring for clean air and EVs. Perhaps not so in the rural US which I might add is not the world.
    Last edited by Anand; 06-12-2017 at 03:33 PM.
    sold: 2013 Boxster S, manual, GR.
    Waiting for 2018 911 C4S, MT, Night Blue with chalk interior and some goodies...

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