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06-25-2009, 09:37 AM
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Porsche Enthusiast
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Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 177
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Arrghh...Mk1 or Mk2???
Hi Folks,
Got a bit of a dilema. I've been looking for a Cayman S to replace my 2007 Boxster S and was seriously considering a new Mk2 when this became available:
2008 Cayman S, 3000 miles
Cobolt Blue
19-inch Carrera Sport wheel
Adaptive sports seats
BOSE Surround Sound System
Bi-Xenon lighting system
CDC-4 six disc CD autochanger
Carbon package
Floor mats
Fully automatic climate control
Porsche Active Suspension Management ( PASM)
Porsche Ceramic Composite Brake (PCCB)
Porsche Communication Management (PCM) including extended navigation module
Sport Chrono Package Plus
Telephone module
Thicker three-spoke sports steering wheel in smooth leather
Top tinted windscreen
Mamouth Spec and I have my existing SRP, sports exhaust and other bits I can port straight across.
Is the DFI engine and other changes enough to justify passing this car over?
Let me know your thoughts... 
Cheers
Chris
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PASM - Porsche Active Suspension Management
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This active damping system offers continuous adjustment of individual damping forces based on current road conditions and driving style.
The driver can choose from two setup modes, ‘Normal’ and ‘Sport’, using a separate ‘damper’ button on the center console. ‘Normal’ mode is designed for general road driving and circuits with uneven tarmac. ‘Sport’ mode is intended for smoother track surfaces, where the harder settings help eliminate pitch and roll.
In either mode, PASM continuously evaluates the current conditions while automatically selecting the corresponding damper rates from the respective set of mapped values.
A range of sensors are used to monitor the movement of the body under acceleration, braking and cornering maneuvers, as well as on poor road surfaces. The PASM control unit then evaluates this data and modifies the damping force on each individual wheel in accordance with the selected mode. The result is a significant reduction in body movement as well as a better grip on the road.
For example: if ‘Sport’ mode is selected, the suspension is automatically set to a harder damper rating. If the quality of the track surface falls below a certain threshold, the system immediately changes to a softer rating within the ‘Sport’ setup range. When the quality of the tarmac improves once more, PASM automatically returns to the original, harder rating.
Need more information about PASM? Click this link: FAQ for PASM |
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DFI
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Direct Fuel Injection (DFI), is a new technology that Porsche states can cut fuel consumption by up to 15 percent, while increasing power by up to 13 percent. DFI cuts emissions by warming up the catalytic converter more quickly, and ensures a sharper throttle response. Better for your right foot - and the planet, then.
DFI allows much more precise measurement of fuel supply and injection at pressures up to 120 bar; it has numerous combustion modes, with different cycles for cold-starting, low-speed driving and performance driving.
As the name suggests, DFI injects fuel directly into the individual combustion chambers, instead of the intake manifold. The injector valves have an electromagnetic mechanism that controls each injection with astonishing precision, while a high-pressure pump provides the necessary pressure—up to 1,740 psi—to accompany the rapid fire of the fuel injection.
Precise geometry of the injector’s position and its spray pattern is a key factor in helping to improve power, torque and emissions of the engines. The specific placement of the fuel as it enters each chamber creates a swirl that improves the air/fuel mixture, and therefore the overall combustion process.
At engine speeds up to 3500 rpm, a double-injection process is used. In this mode, the required fuel volume is delivered in two successive injections per working stroke. The resulting benefits include faster catalyst warm-up and increased torque in the upper load range.
By forming the air/fuel mix directly in the combustion chamber, DFI contributes to engine cooling. As a result, it is possible to increase the compression ratio and with it the power and efficiency of the engine.
The direct injection process is continuously adjusted. The engine management system reads changes to throttle inputs and performance requirements and, as you drive, the air/fuel mix is monitored and adapted as required. Oxygen sensor circuits within the exhaust system provide accurate emissions control. |
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__________________
Now producing 100bhp/l - thanks to Planet 9!
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'07 987 | '08 987C | '10 GT3 or '08 987C Turbo?
Last edited by CJP80; 06-25-2009 at 09:41 AM.
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06-25-2009, 09:48 AM
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Insider
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Arizona
Posts: 86
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Re: Arrghh...Mk1 or Mk2???
If pricing is correct and the spec is right for you, I'd go with the used one.
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06-25-2009, 09:53 AM
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Porsche Enthusiast
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: IL
Posts: 153
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Re: Arrghh...Mk1 or Mk2???
Great spec. Aren't the ceramic brakes massively expensive to maintain (i.e. replacement pads & rotors)?
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06-25-2009, 12:15 PM
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Porsche Enthusiast
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Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: UK
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Re: Arrghh...Mk1 or Mk2???
Originally Posted by rubber_ducky
Great spec. Aren't the ceramic brakes massively expensive to maintain (i.e. replacement pads & rotors)?
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Hi,
I believe the disks will last a lifetime. Not sure the cost of the pads or wear rates though?
Thinking the used CS is the way to go. The car was £63,000 new!
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My Garage | My Articles | My Files
'07 987 | '08 987C | '10 GT3 or '08 987C Turbo?
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06-25-2009, 01:17 PM
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Porsche Chatter
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Posts: 18
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Re: Arrghh...Mk1 or Mk2???
Originally Posted by CJP80
Hi,
I believe the disks will last a lifetime. Not sure the cost of the pads or wear rates though?
Thinking the used CS is the way to go. The car was £63,000 new!
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I would question that. So many rotors develop a pulsation that can drive most everyone mad. If you get a pulsation on those brakes, I am not sure they can be turned? Are they floating centers? I am not sure because I about crapped myself when I saw the price for replacement rotors. If you develop a pulsation then I say you are out a pile of money.
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06-25-2009, 02:13 PM
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Site Donor
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Location: Las Vegas, Nevada
Posts: 6,825
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Re: Arrghh...Mk1 or Mk2???
Originally Posted by CJP80
Hi,
I believe the disks will last a lifetime. Not sure the cost of the pads or wear rates though?
Thinking the used CS is the way to go. The car was £63,000 new!
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Originally Posted by rubber_ducky
Great spec. Aren't the ceramic brakes massively expensive to maintain (i.e. replacement pads & rotors)?
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Originally Posted by h_curtis
I would question that. So many rotors develop a pulsation that can drive most everyone mad. If you get a pulsation on those brakes, I am not sure they can be turned? Are they floating centers? I am not sure because I about crapped myself when I saw the price for replacement rotors. If you develop a pulsation then I say you are out a pile of money.
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True - the rotors seem to have a very long life when used only on the street, although I haven't heard of anyone having more than about 40-50k miles on them yet - they've only been out a few years. The current Gen 2 PCCB rotors are much better then the generation before. Pad replacement isn't all that expensive - $240/fronts, $285/rears. The rotors OTOH, are cheaper than they were, but still about $8.5k/front set and $7.5k rear set. The rotors will not warp, so there's really no danger from that as far as pulsation is concerned.
But, most people who have these brakes, switch over to steel brake rotors for track use - very few people track these because of they do come apart from track use, they're not covered under warranty.
CJP80 - You've been around the forums here long enough that you've undoubtedly done some reading on these... if not, there's plenty if you do a search. I would say, if you're going to use them for street use only, you probably don't have a lot to worry about.
brad
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PCA DE Instructor
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06-25-2009, 03:21 PM
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Location: N. Illinois
Posts: 666
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Re: Arrghh...Mk1 or Mk2???
If it were me, I'd rather have the Gen II car and forgo a few of these options.
Non-power versions of the Cayman seats offer more leg and head room than the power seats. I need the head room several friends need the leg room.
I can live without ceramic brakes.
I can live without a CD changer if I have a great iPod adapter like the Gen II has.
The extra power and refinement is considerable in real world driving according to tests.
The standard suspension is MUCH better. I'd probably still like to have PASM, but it's not strictly needed for 19's like it once was.
I like the looks of the new 18" wheels much better than the Gen 1 18's for both Boxster and Cayman.
Telephone module? I have a phone.
Tinted upper windscreen????
Carbon package? Keep it!
I love Colbalt Blue...probably my favorite Cayman color but silver is a lot easier to take care of. There's something very right about the silver/black on this car and I really like it now, but I originally wanted Cobalt.
There's nothing wrong with this used one and I'm betting it's splendid to behold, but I'm guessing the price is fairly high.
I'd rather have the Gen II more reasonably equipped.
18" CSII wheels,
Normal brakes,
PCM,
SC,
PASM (maybe, test drive needed)
3 spoke sport steering wheel,
Non-Full Leather interior...They wear better.
Standard, non-sport seats. We aren't claustrophobic enough in this car, we need bigger bolsters? Standard seats are great on my back, all my friends can get in them. Standard seats are lighter and have power backrest adjust which is the key thing... and you need to rip them out and put in serious race seats to use harnesses in PCA driving events anyway.
Bose or Sound Plus
Climate Control (maybe...I don't have it now and I'm getting used to that after having about 7 cars with it.)
I don't like auto-dimming mirrors. I like to see what's behind me and only dim my center mirror if someone has really bright lights behind. Had these on two Audis and felt like I was in a cave.
I don't think I need xenon headlights but haven't tried the halogens.
I can easily live without Homelink.
Bluetooth
Iphone adapter.
Color: white or silver....EZ care.
If a car like that can be had for the same or a little more than this '08, I'd get the '09. I could even cut back a bit more if certain things like standard suspension work as well as I've heard.
-Six
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PASM - Porsche Active Suspension Management
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This active damping system offers continuous adjustment of individual damping forces based on current road conditions and driving style.
The driver can choose from two setup modes, ‘Normal’ and ‘Sport’, using a separate ‘damper’ button on the center console. ‘Normal’ mode is designed for general road driving and circuits with uneven tarmac. ‘Sport’ mode is intended for smoother track surfaces, where the harder settings help eliminate pitch and roll.
In either mode, PASM continuously evaluates the current conditions while automatically selecting the corresponding damper rates from the respective set of mapped values.
A range of sensors are used to monitor the movement of the body under acceleration, braking and cornering maneuvers, as well as on poor road surfaces. The PASM control unit then evaluates this data and modifies the damping force on each individual wheel in accordance with the selected mode. The result is a significant reduction in body movement as well as a better grip on the road.
For example: if ‘Sport’ mode is selected, the suspension is automatically set to a harder damper rating. If the quality of the track surface falls below a certain threshold, the system immediately changes to a softer rating within the ‘Sport’ setup range. When the quality of the tarmac improves once more, PASM automatically returns to the original, harder rating.
Need more information about PASM? Click this link: FAQ for PASM |
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06-25-2009, 04:48 PM
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Porsche Prophet
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Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 87
Country: 
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Re: Arrghh...Mk1 or Mk2???
Originally Posted by CJP80
Hi Folks,
Got a bit of a dilema. I've been looking for a Cayman S to replace my 2007 Boxster S and was seriously considering a new Mk2 when this became available:
2008 Cayman S, 3000 miles
Cobolt Blue
19-inch Carrera Sport wheel
Adaptive sports seats
BOSE Surround Sound System
Bi-Xenon lighting system
CDC-4 six disc CD autochanger
Carbon package
Floor mats
Fully automatic climate control
Porsche Active Suspension Management ( PASM)
Porsche Ceramic Composite Brake (PCCB)
Porsche Communication Management (PCM) including extended navigation module
Sport Chrono Package Plus
Telephone module
Thicker three-spoke sports steering wheel in smooth leather
Top tinted windscreen
Mamouth Spec and I have my existing SRP, sports exhaust and other bits I can port straight across.
Is the DFI engine and other changes enough to justify passing this car over?
Let me know your thoughts...
Cheers
Chris |
If the price is good get this one. 
You're going to take a big hit if you buy the new one and the used has loads of extras that you're going to have to pay dearly on a brand new CS.
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PASM - Porsche Active Suspension Management
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|
This active damping system offers continuous adjustment of individual damping forces based on current road conditions and driving style.
The driver can choose from two setup modes, ‘Normal’ and ‘Sport’, using a separate ‘damper’ button on the center console. ‘Normal’ mode is designed for general road driving and circuits with uneven tarmac. ‘Sport’ mode is intended for smoother track surfaces, where the harder settings help eliminate pitch and roll.
In either mode, PASM continuously evaluates the current conditions while automatically selecting the corresponding damper rates from the respective set of mapped values.
A range of sensors are used to monitor the movement of the body under acceleration, braking and cornering maneuvers, as well as on poor road surfaces. The PASM control unit then evaluates this data and modifies the damping force on each individual wheel in accordance with the selected mode. The result is a significant reduction in body movement as well as a better grip on the road.
For example: if ‘Sport’ mode is selected, the suspension is automatically set to a harder damper rating. If the quality of the track surface falls below a certain threshold, the system immediately changes to a softer rating within the ‘Sport’ setup range. When the quality of the tarmac improves once more, PASM automatically returns to the original, harder rating.
Need more information about PASM? Click this link: FAQ for PASM |
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DFI
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Direct Fuel Injection (DFI), is a new technology that Porsche states can cut fuel consumption by up to 15 percent, while increasing power by up to 13 percent. DFI cuts emissions by warming up the catalytic converter more quickly, and ensures a sharper throttle response. Better for your right foot - and the planet, then.
DFI allows much more precise measurement of fuel supply and injection at pressures up to 120 bar; it has numerous combustion modes, with different cycles for cold-starting, low-speed driving and performance driving.
As the name suggests, DFI injects fuel directly into the individual combustion chambers, instead of the intake manifold. The injector valves have an electromagnetic mechanism that controls each injection with astonishing precision, while a high-pressure pump provides the necessary pressure—up to 1,740 psi—to accompany the rapid fire of the fuel injection.
Precise geometry of the injector’s position and its spray pattern is a key factor in helping to improve power, torque and emissions of the engines. The specific placement of the fuel as it enters each chamber creates a swirl that improves the air/fuel mixture, and therefore the overall combustion process.
At engine speeds up to 3500 rpm, a double-injection process is used. In this mode, the required fuel volume is delivered in two successive injections per working stroke. The resulting benefits include faster catalyst warm-up and increased torque in the upper load range.
By forming the air/fuel mix directly in the combustion chamber, DFI contributes to engine cooling. As a result, it is possible to increase the compression ratio and with it the power and efficiency of the engine.
The direct injection process is continuously adjusted. The engine management system reads changes to throttle inputs and performance requirements and, as you drive, the air/fuel mix is monitored and adapted as required. Oxygen sensor circuits within the exhaust system provide accurate emissions control. |
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06-25-2009, 06:51 PM
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I'm an excellent driver ....
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: MD
Posts: 1,455
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Re: Arrghh...Mk1 or Mk2???
Originally Posted by Cayman-S
If the price is good get this one.
You're going to take a big hit if you buy the new one and the used has loads of extras that you're going to have to pay dearly on a brand new CS. |
+1 if it is close enough to what you want, I would get it. The yellow calipers look great.
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07-01-2009, 04:49 PM
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Porsche Enthusiast
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Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 177
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Re: Arrghh...Mk1 or Mk2???
Hi Gents,
Thanks for the responses. I decided to go for the used Cayman S. The combination of options, mileage and of course the price made it an eventual no brainer.
Here she is:
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'07 987 | '08 987C | '10 GT3 or '08 987C Turbo?
Last edited by CJP80; 07-01-2009 at 04:56 PM.
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07-01-2009, 05:48 PM
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Caymaniac
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Re: Arrghh...Mk1 or Mk2???
God Almighty, that's a beautiful car. If you are going to track it, consider replacing your PCCBs *before* they are worn out.
__________________
2007 Speed Yellow Cayman GT 2.7 (retired)
2008 Guards Red Cayman GT 3.4
"Carpe Cayman"
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07-01-2009, 06:59 PM
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Cayman Enthusiast
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Location: New Mexico
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Re: Arrghh...Mk1 or Mk2???
Very nice Cayman. And Dave is right don't track those brakes (replacements are $$$$$$$).
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07-01-2009, 08:14 PM
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Sprinsteen fanatic
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Re: Arrghh...Mk1 or Mk2???
She's a beauty all right. Congratulations! I love those yellow calipers. Only problem is they put the steering wheel on the wrong side. Will they fix that under warranty? 
__________________
2008 Cayman S Sport
2008 GTI
1970 Judge
1967 GTO
2008 1098R
1992 900 SS
2010 XB12R Firebolt
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07-02-2009, 03:07 AM
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Porsche Prophet
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Join Date: Jun 2009
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Re: Arrghh...Mk1 or Mk2???
Good move CJP80. Congrats and all the best with the CS 
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07-03-2009, 05:42 PM
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Porsche Prophet
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Join Date: May 2009
Location: athens
Posts: 77
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Re: Arrghh...Mk1 or Mk2???
a new car is always a NEW car....plus if you have a passion for speed the new cayman s and boxter S with PDK or not are so much faster than the 987 mk1...
i mean i have with an oem cayman S mk1 model about 6-7 cars behind me.We are talking for a big power difference....but... congrads for the cayman....
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07-06-2009, 11:31 AM
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Porsche Enthusiast
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Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 177
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Re: Arrghh...Mk1 or Mk2???
Disaster!
I picked up my car on Saturday morning, not a mark on it. Only 3500 miles on the clock...everthing looked great. Left the dealership and drove 2 mins up the motorway when I started to hear a slight screetching noise from the engine bay. I immediately turned around and took the car back to the dealer. As it was a Saturday, there were no technicians in so I was given the choice to drive my own car back home 220 miles and pick the car up next weekend or take the risk of driving the new car home. As there were no fault codes and the noise was intermittent I decided to take the new car and book it into my local dealer.
100 miles or so into my drive home and the noise started to get louder and louder. Strangely it was only apparent in gears 3,4,5 & 6. I decided then that enough was enough, so I called Porsche Assistance. After a brief call to one of their technicians I was advised that my gearbox was displaying symptoms of running dry! I took a look under the car and I could see what looked like transmission fluid on the bottom of the sump where the gearbox mates to the block.
My vehicle has since been recovered and is now at my local dealership awaiting a new gearbox!
What makes matters worse is that this car was a Porsche GB car and was driven by a exec at the head office. It had been completely prep'd by Porsche GB prior to delivery to the dealer via transporter. The dealer then simply valeted the car for my handover. I even checked the DME for over-revs at the handover. To be honest, I decided to change my Boxster early due to the sheer number of issues I had with it. I really thought I'd got a bargain with this car and it turns out to be a Turkey too! I've got no luck! 
In terms of options and spec - this was my dream car and I'd loathe to reject due to this failure, but I'm torn right now and seriously disappointed by the ownership experience.
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Last edited by CJP80; 07-06-2009 at 12:09 PM.
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07-06-2009, 11:43 AM
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Site Donor
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Re: Arrghh...Mk1 or Mk2???
Unfortunately there is always a risk with second hand cars.
However, I would say that things may show a very different "angle" if Porsche GB makes you PAY for the new gearbox or recognise your rights for free repair.
If it turns out to be no cost for you, you'll only remember this as a "minor annoyance" and the beauty of driving your new 'beast' will eventually overshadow this initial failure.
On the other hand, if they dare charging you for this (and a new CS gearbox may mean arm+leg!), I would seriously drop Porsche from the list of any future car I may consider.
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07-06-2009, 12:16 PM
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Porsche Enthusiast
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Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: UK
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Re: Arrghh...Mk1 or Mk2???
There's no chance of them trying that! If anything they should be thankful they got my business again after my previous experience! I'm going to put this down to sheer bad luck and hope for the best.
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'07 987 | '08 987C | '10 GT3 or '08 987C Turbo?
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07-06-2009, 01:02 PM
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I'm an excellent driver ....
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: MD
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Re: Arrghh...Mk1 or Mk2???
Looks like majory disaster right now, but 1,000 miles from now you will not even remeber it. Trust me. I had very bad first days with boats and cars. All was fixed and all it caused was a delay and of course tremendous high blood preassure, fuming, cuzzzzzing and such on my part. Missed a planned outing whatever, a after a week of enjoying the new toy you have all b t forgotten. Keep your head up.
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07-07-2009, 04:09 AM
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Porsche Prophet
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Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 87
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Re: Arrghh...Mk1 or Mk2???
Wow! I'm very sorry to hear about your trouble CJP80 
Hope Porsche GB will fix that for good under warranty so you can finally enjoy that CS 
Hang in there 
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