Planet 9

jw191 · #1 01-28-2012, 05:24 AM

Hi All,

A friend is trading in their 2006 Cayman S and I have the opportunity to buy the car for the trade in value (quite a bit cheaper than market value).

My friend bought the car 8mths ago, and immediately there were engine problems; heavy smoke, oil use etc. The garage (not a Porsche dealer) got the engine replaced by a specialist Porsche Centre for around £9k. There is nothing on the invoice to indicate if this was a reconditioned or new engine. My gut instinct is £9k feels a little expensive for a reconditioned, but perhaps not enough for a new engine?

Replacement engine has covered around 15k miles, and the car around 75k miles. I believe there is 16mths warranty left on the Engine. I’ve read a lot of worrying reports about Engine failures in 2006-2008 models, and I can’t afford to blow a significant chunk of my savings on a lemon. I’m hoping to establish if the replacement engine is the original version, or the ‘fixed’ (2009 on) version. I plan to contact the garage that did the work, however they may not be particularly helpful, I’m not sure what to ask, and I’d like to try an verify what I’m told.

Is the 06-08 engine referred to as a revision 1, and 09 onwards as revision 2? i.e. what should I be asking the garage?

Are there any checks I can do on the actual engine to determine it’s age / revision? Are there any visual clues, or can I tell from the engine number?

I’m really tempted to buy and run it for a year or so, but don’t want to buy into problems.

Thanks.

porschegeorg · #2 01-28-2012, 06:02 AM

If that engine was only replaced 8 months ago, I would think you could go to the place that replaced it and get documentation on what was done. I'm a little concerned that it wasn't replaced by a Porsche dealer. Does that mean the warranty is from the "Porsche specialist" who performed the work or is it covered by Porsche themselves?

Also, what does "trade-in" value mean? To me, a 2006 with 75k, trade-in is under $20,000. At that price, if you can get the docs on the new engine, it might be a steal.

I'll defer to the experts here though...I'm just giving my non-expert opinion. Also keep in mind, when you go to sell it, you might only get "trade-in" value due to the engine replacement.

abedh · #3 01-28-2012, 06:10 AM

Originally Posted by porschegeorg

Also, what does "trade-in" value mean? To me, a 2006 with 75k, trade-in is under $20,000. At that price, if you can get the docs on the new engine, it might be a steal.

Are we talking dollars or pounds? $30k trade in on a base model is closer to reality than $20k here in the US (speaking from recent experience), I don't know about the UK though.
If anyone can find a clean '06 at $20k, grab it, as that would be a steal!

andyv94 · #4 01-28-2012, 06:12 AM

Regarding the engine problems you've heard for those years, are
you sure you heard them right??
The only real issue I heard was in the Boxters engine with the IMS
issues and that was on the earlier models. Otherwise is news to me.

jw191 · #5 01-28-2012, 06:45 AM

I've just checked and the engine was replaced by a Porsche Dealership (Porsche Centre). I can buy this car for £14k, which at todays exchange rate is $22k.

The engine problems I'm referring to are IMS and Scored Bores; not sure what the root cause of the engine replacement 8mths ago was. I presume the warranty is from the Porsche Dealer, but I'll check that when I call them.

Were there only two versions of the engine; a revision 1 or revison 2?

Thanks.

Croc'ed · #6 01-28-2012, 06:55 AM

Gen 1 (2005-2008) Cayman S engines are called M97.21. These are not the same as Gen 2 (2009-up) Cayman S engines. So, the replacement engine is most likely a M97.21.

IMO, if the replacement engine runs fine and doesn't blow smoke, and the rest of the car is in good condition, then there's no reason to walk away from this deal on account of its engine replacement.

Originally Posted by jw191

I've just checked and the engine was replaced by a Porsche Dealership (Porsche Centre). I can buy this car for £14k, which at todays exchange rate is $22k.

The engine problems I'm referring to are IMS and Scored Bores; not sure what the root cause of the engine replacement 8mths ago was. I presume the warranty is from the Porsche Dealer, but I'll check that when I call them.

Were there only two versions of the engine; a revision 1 or revison 2?

Thanks.

Mike2354 · #7 01-28-2012, 06:57 AM

I would say to grab it! You are getting a used Porsche below book value with a new or low mileage Porsche engine in it. Life is to short to worry about everything that could go wrong with the car. Buy it, and drive it like you stole it-because price wise you did!

Flow · #8 01-28-2012, 07:19 AM

Originally Posted by jw191

I've just checked and the engine was replaced by a Porsche Dealership (Porsche Centre). I can buy this car for £14k, which at todays exchange rate is $22k.

Replaced by Porsche Dealership sounds good an £14k is a bargain. I dont know pricelevel in UK, but for 17000€ its impossible to get a Cayman in Germany. I just checked motors.co.uk and cheapest Cayman is £17.5k, so it should also be a good deal in the UK?

Also with the 16 months warranty you have not worry about problems, if you just want hold it one year.

.

Greywolf · #9 01-28-2012, 08:08 AM

The only thing I've seen reported remotely like engine issues on gen 1 cars reported is if tracked. There are threads on the oiling issues if you're curious.

I agree that the same type of engine would have gone back in. Changing all of the electrics to go from FI on a gen 1 car to handle the gen 2 DFI and electric oil scav pumps would be a major effort. The extra elec scav pumps are the fix for the oiling issue that might crop up on track.

Every report I've seen puts Porsche reconditioned engines at a quality level at least as good as original. If rebuilt by someone else who knows.

A car at trade in value is a good deal assuming it would be a private sale from your friend. I can't imagine a dealer doing that on a good car and losing several thousand in profit unless there was some issue.

DFI

Direct Fuel Injection (DFI), is a new technology that Porsche states can cut fuel consumption by up to 15 percent, while increasing power by up to 13 percent. DFI cuts emissions by warming up the catalytic converter more quickly, and ensures a sharper throttle response. Better for your right foot - and the planet, then.

DFI allows much more precise measurement of fuel supply and injection at pressures up to 120 bar; it has numerous combustion modes, with different cycles for cold-starting, low-speed driving and performance driving.

As the name suggests, DFI injects fuel directly into the individual combustion chambers, instead of the intake manifold. The injector valves have an electromagnetic mechanism that controls each injection with astonishing precision, while a high-pressure pump provides the necessary pressure—up to 1,740 psi—to accompany the rapid fire of the fuel injection.

Precise geometry of the injector’s position and its spray pattern is a key factor in helping to improve power, torque and emissions of the engines. The specific placement of the fuel as it enters each chamber creates a swirl that improves the air/fuel mixture, and therefore the overall combustion process.

At engine speeds up to 3500 rpm, a double-injection process is used. In this mode, the required fuel volume is delivered in two successive injections per working stroke. The resulting benefits include faster catalyst warm-up and increased torque in the upper load range.

By forming the air/fuel mix directly in the combustion chamber, DFI contributes to engine cooling. As a result, it is possible to increase the compression ratio and with it the power and efficiency of the engine.

The direct injection process is continuously adjusted. The engine management system reads changes to throttle inputs and performance requirements and, as you drive, the air/fuel mix is monitored and adapted as required. Oxygen sensor circuits within the exhaust system provide accurate emissions control.

jw191 · #10 01-28-2012, 08:47 AM

Thanks for the feedback. I have emailed the garage asking a few questions.

I'm guessing the engine must be re-conditioned if its an original M97.21 as can't imagine there would be too many new ones available 2yrs+ after they were updated.

I don't think I should link to other forums, but there is a poll on another board about 996 & 997 engine re-builds, and 36 of the 192 owners that have responded have had an engine re-build (i'm aware this result may be skewed).

The engine warranty (if transferable) does provide some peach of mind, but even so if there are problems ownership may not be an enjoyable experience. This will be my only car, and there is no public transport where I live, so I need it to be dependable.