Planet 9

Hello fellow 987 owners, enthusiasts and all around nice people. Please lend me your ears while I talk about my '06 CS

Yesterday I returned from a DE day at Thunderhill. One of the most fun that I've ever had, if I'm honest. Throttle steering around turn 2, getting the car do a hop and sideways skip across the top of the Cyclone without ever coming close to losing it, diving into turns 1 and 10 at maximum attack with a dab on the brakes to settle the front and then all the way on the gas to settle the back. Beautiful tire music (the on-limit screeee as opposed to the I-screwed-up grrrrrr) that I made with my willing, able and uncomplaining dance partner. All the while staying ahead of maybe a third of the advanced group with no mods and on Hankook V12s. Brilliant.

The back story is, roughly a year and a half ago I went shopping for a Cayman - I knew there wasn't going to be anything quite like it in my price range (mid-engined, livable as a daily driver, user friendly at the track and fast). Visited a few dealerships, and met with some resistance from sales people who either didn't take me seriously or wanted their pound of flesh that I just wasn't willing to provide. Finally found it at the Carmax in Burbank, of all places, and seriously mis-priced at that - full leather, PASM, sport chrono, PCM, auto climate control, xenons, and much more for well under $40k and 13,000 miles to boot (about the only option that was missing was PCCBs, and I don't miss them at all). Of course I paid up on the spot and drove home with the proviso that if my mechanic found anything wrong, I could bring it back in 5 days for a refund, no questions asked.

Never did of course. Before I knew it, I was having the car checked over in preparation for my first DE, and found myself at Streets of Willow one fine Saturday morning. My first instructor had high praise for it - he said it was balanced, communicative, and that I could learn a lot from trying to feel where the weight was, and then using just enough gas to balance it once the car had taken a set. By the end of the day I was flying, having managed to lap every single other car in the beginner run group in the final session (all credit to the car, not to me), and I was well and truly hooked.

So fast forward to today where I have about fifteen track days under my belt.

Multiple instructors are saying to me that I've outgrown the tires and they're holding me back. They say ditch the Hankooks and put on Pirelli Corsas - they're decent in the wet too, or maybe R888s. Don't you know, the tires are the most essential upgrade on the car and when you just blew several hundred dollars on a single track day, that really puts the cost of tires in perspective. And I smile and agree but have to bite my tongue and not launch into this diatribe about the power steering pump that leaks on hot days and under high load, the just-barely-adequate oiling on street tires, the weak IMS bearing and the spongy brakes that I really don't want to push any harder. I don't tell them about all the money I've spent on aggressive maintenance patching power steering leaks before they become a problem, a Blackstone Labs oil sample every oil change, air filter, plugs, belts and water pump done way ahead of schedule, and would you *please* bleed the brakes again?

Then my friend asks me to give his bone-stock BMW M6 a go while he rides shotgun - and wouldn't you know, it digs out of corners like a scalded cat, brakes with more authority than it and corners as neutrally as one would like given that it's a nose-heavy car. If you've never had five hundred eager and friendly horses at your disposal before, know that it goes right to your hindbrain. But it's the combination of sheer on-track capability in all aspects and pussycat GT manners when it's off-track that is really compelling. I could put slicks on an M6 and feel omnipotent and never have to sweat that the engine or power steering would blow up, never mind that it is ultimately a GT car and was designed to be less at-home on the track than my car is.

Which in turn leads me to realize that I'm making excuses for my car that isn't, in Jeremy Clarkson's words, all that it can be. In an ideal world, there would be a no-excuses variant available from Porsche for budding track junkies like myself with the most powerful naturally aspirated engine in it, the way Hans Mezger intended. There would be no excuses for the shameful braking system or the plastic fittings on the power steering lines or the lack of an LSD option. And of course, there's the oiling issue, which is on a whole other plane of chutzpah coming from a brand that trumpets its impeccable motorsports heritage.

So where do I go from here? I know that there are many modifications that can be made which the good people at TPC and LN Engineering and many others have devised, but that isn't for me. I am painfully aware of the fact that one never gets back anywhere near the amount of money that one puts into modifying the car, and I'd rather save my pennies. I could get a Gen II, but there aren't many out there that are used, and I'm not willing to put a brand new car on the track. I am in fact considering trading up to an '07 GT3 or possibly a 997.1, and could make up for the lack of easily exploitable nimbleness with more power, less problems and that delicious rear-engined shove on corner exit. Or I could really save my pennies and buy a McLaren MP4-12C some day - now there's a thought, or even be happy with the new FT-86, which is closer in spirit to the original Boxster and at that price point, far more compelling to modify.

As of now I have yet to explore Laguna Seca or Infineon, and my car will be a great partner for me there. But I'm slowly getting tired of short-shifting in high-G turns and never having the nerve to brake late and constantly checking for leaks of all kinds with that engine-replacement boogeyman in the back of my head. Don't get me wrong - I will always have a (very) soft spot for the car that I learned how to really drive in, but I know I'm not going to be happy limping around on street tires forever.

And so now I turn it over to you all. Some of you have tons more track experience than me; others may have none - but it doesn't matter. I've realized, after being on P-9 for a while, that most everyone has a compelling perspective to share, and I welcome it as I think really hard about what happens next.

You go 2 places. Sell it and buy an 09+ or buy an M3. I'm perfectly happy with my '06 (but don't track it) and have no significant fear of engine failure but not sure I'd keep rolling the dice on an '06 especially if you're already worried about things.

Selling an '06 and buying an '09 shouldn't set you back more than 10-15k. Not sure how much used M6s are but I just don't find them to be very pretty regardless of how well they perform. I don't think I could ever argue against an M3 if you are leaning towards the GT route though.

You paid less than $40k for the car.

It sounds like you are ready for something different and more expensive. Or cheaper and similar. LOL.

All cars represent a compromise. Enjoy the hunt for your next compromise. ;-)

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2007 Speed Yellow Cayman GT 2.7 (retired)
2008 Guards Red Cayman GT 3.4 (retired)
2012 Carrara White Cayman R
"Carpe Cayman"

It just sounds like you are ready for a new car--nothing wrong with that

If you really liked how the Cayman performed (and it sounds like you do), I would consider getting a 2nd gen. Doing a quick search, a nice used 2nd Gen will set you back around 50K--you didn't mention a price range that you were interested in, but I searched for a M6 quickly and found that you will have to go a couple years older than the 2nd gen Cayman to stay in that same price range, or put up an additional 10K. Also, something to consider with the M6 is that V10--I'm sure it isn't that fuel efficient. (not sure if you have to pay the gas guzzler tax on used cars, but if so, that is another cost on the M6).

You could also go used M3--which I think would be a better switch for a Cayman, but again, price will probably be more for a similar year, or you will have to go older (which in most cases means more miles).

Good luck with finding a new car

I appreciate your pain here. I'm not pleased with spending thousands on reliability items just so I can track the car without worrying about the basics. But I got a cheaper '06S and have done just that. With TTP and Accusump, oiling seems covered. With under drive pully and cooler, power steering is hopefully addressed. Swapping in the GT M/C and brake ducts with Ti shielded pads and race fluid should cover brakes for a while. Only after all that do I even start to look at safety, suspension and power boosting options! Final cost is still quite a bit less than your starting price, but I have a 64k mile car

Maybe we should swap

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'06 CTT Crystal Silver Metallic
'10 Jetta Sportwagon TDI
'94 XJ Sport 4DR
'06 CS 6spd Cobalt Blue Metallic w/TTP, Accusump, Big VOS, X51 Windage, 996 Defoamers, Big Oil & PS Coolers, BBI Underdrive Pulley, Carnewal Exhaust, Softronic Software, IPD Race Plenum/GT3 TB, H&R Springs, GT3 LCAs Front & Rear, Tarrett Toe Links, GT3 MC, CEC, etc.

Botulism, well written, and it sadly echos many of the feelings I'm running into about Porsches.

Some suggestions -

997.1 is a bad idea, basically the same problems as a 987.1 just not quite as bad.

987.2 Cayman seems to resolve the worst issues. But it is still underpowered, and there's a lot of annoying cheapness in the chassis; if you keep progressing it will eventually hold you back.

GT3 is clearly a great track car; awfully expensive though, even used, and rather low/stiff for use on the street if you want to keep it dual use.

E46 M3 - has a few issues (rear subframe for example) but they're well known and pretty cheap to fix; you could buy one and fix all the issues for $30k and once it's sorted out it's a very solid street/track car. (Z4 M Coupe is roughly the same)

Corvette - Grand Sport is the best value; superb power, reliable as long as you get a 09+ with dry sump, the performance value for sure. GM also has a pretty good track record of replacing engines even when they were blown on the track (mainly an issue with the older non-dry-sump engines).

? Nothing else I can think of ? (not considering very old cars like 944's or E36 M3's ; also not considering things like Miatas that are in a different class)

Personally I would never consider a car that's over 3500 pounds, but if you do then there are other options like the Mustang Boss 302 or the E90 M3 which are both superb, reliable, with absolute monster engines. (The M6 is nearly 4000 pounds so...)

Lots of cars need some minor brake upgrades to be good track cars, but that's no big deal, it's easy and cheap; it's not like having a bad engine which is expensive and difficult to deal with.

I was exactly in the same position as you a while back. Exactly.
I went to an e92 M3 for 6 months then to a GT3. I have had the GT3 for a year and a half and am not even close to seeing its limits. I am the rate limiting step now, not my car. Absolutely cannot see going to anything else for the track at this point. If you could hold on a bit, save some money, and go for a 997.1 GT3, you won't look back. I promise. I just picked up a Cayman R for my wife and drove it a bit...great car, great performer, but not in the same league as the GT3. Enjoy the search and take your time.

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2011 GT3 (guards red/black)
2012 Cayman R (carrara white/black)
2009 C4S Cab (basalt black/carrera red and black)
2010 Cadillac Escalade ESV (celestial blue/cashmere)

2011 BMW X5 xDrive35i Sport Activity (white/white) - sold
2009 BMW M3 Coupe (interlagos blue/black) - sold
2006 Porsche Cayman S (arctic silver/terracotta) - sold
2004 BMW M3 Cab (grey/black) - sold

Sometimes I feel that the easy-to-drive nature of the cayman makes it a bit easy to outgrow it. Not taking anything away from the OP's driving skills, but I too have be sung high praises by my instructors and have quickly moved up a level or two (depending on the organization) after just one DE season. My car is a PDK so it makes for much simpler driving than the OP's MT, but sometimes I wonder if the caymans forgiving nature has owners looking for something a bit more wild in a short period of time

Buy a supercharged Lotus, either an Elise with an aftermarket s/c kit or a factory Exige S. On the track my s/c Elise makes my Cayman S feel liks a Caddilac. But if it's your only car get a S2000, you can flog the **** out of it and not worry about stuff like oiling issues or power steering blowing up (EPS). Even though it's not mid engine the balance and overall feel are VERY similar to the Cayman S.

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06 Arctic Silver Cayman S
06 Canyon Red Lotus Elise Supercharged
07 Space Grey BMW 335i Coupe

I know many have seen this video - but pay attention to the last quote by Porsche's Chief Driving Consultant Gordon Robertson - the balance of the cayman makes it the ideal car to "learn high performance driving" that also makes it feel less exciting as we adapt to this balance.

In other words it allows average drivers to exceed their capabilities, but that could just be me...

Porsche Cayman at the Porsche Experience Center - Porsche Drive USA | view and share articles, news, images, videos, events


Just one opinion.

Hey I'm there with you! I had visions of me tearing up the track. But after reading about all the headaches involved... mine will just see an occasional track day on street tires.

In terms of moving to R compounds, it's a slippery slope. You'll need a racing harness, lest you enjoy getting tossed about in the cabin from the higher lateral g's. And then you'll want a fixed bucket seat. This means rollbar and HANS. Also you'll need to upgrade to race brake pads. The car will snack on rotors like cookies.

Then after a while, you'll realize the R tires are maxing out your OEM suspension, and then you're looking for a JRZ race suspension, stiffer swaybars, spherical bushings, etc. Now the car is no longer tolerable driving sedately over bumpy roads. Never mind all the new creaking noises you'll hear while gingerly traversing speed bumps.

Then there's the hassle of hauling wheels/tires around and changing them out. Then you're hauling more tools to the track. Changing tires and brake pads at the track? Oh so now that truck and trailer for towing makes so much more sense. Ahhhhhh so much for keeping it simple!!

Usually every hobbyist gets to the point of going with a dedicated track machine after struggling with a dual purpose car. No one said this would be cheap!!

Sure you can "change cars" to avoid the major issues that hamper Cayman's track worthiness. But it doesn't matter what car you replace it with, you'll want the R compounds on it as well. So just remember what I wrote above.

Also a short story to share about street vs R compound tires. My friend and I drove similarly powered cars at Laguna Seca. I started the day off on street tires, and he stayed on R compounds. He was faster through the corners, but could not separate from me. I managed to catch up to him from time to time. He wasn't using his R tires fully, and so me on street tires was just a smidgen slower than him. Later we swapped cars and and he didn't manage to keep up at all.

Modern Z rated street tires are surprisingly good and offer plenty of feedback. Also for what it's worth, the R tires are usually worth about 2-3 seconds per lap. It's a lot of hassle for a smidgen faster lap time. But here in LA, it's an arms race where you see everyone lapping with R comps and simply walking by in the corners with the big rear wings too! Infuriating!! Also with R comps they are deadly in the cold until they warm up. And make sure you're ready to handle when they lose traction, there's less warning feedback and you'll be in trouble faster than you think.

Also check out the cars listed here: Top 25 Buttonwillow Lap Times

For config #13 ... anything under 2m00s is stupid fast. S2000s are reliable and cheap to run. EVOs are very popular as well. The Lotus are great too. Any track machine should be 3000 lbs or less.

An M3 will out handle an M6. Power to weight ratio is similar and M3 handles a lot better than an M6 because it weighs significantly less

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Current Cars: (3)

2008 Cayman S 6spd White - PASM & Sport Chrono
2008 BMW M3 sedan 6spd - Interlagos Blue
2008 Cherokee SRT-8

I read this and think,"Porsche loyalty" Tune the car, go deeper in the corners, get better tires, adjust the suspension.
I don't think, "whats another car option?"
Maybe I'm missing something. Let me re-read the thread again.

When racing a car on a budget I would scrape and scrounge for anything to go a little bit faster. Shave the flywheel hide an MSD ignition. Use European parts that were a few mm bigger.

I just cannot give the BMW's the respect some can.
They are a shoe box with wheels. I had a CLK 320 that I had would be more worried about passing my Porsche's than any BMW.
I have had 4 door BMW's a 740 iL and a 750.. They were great touring cars.
I just never had the desire to get into a 3 or 5 series M car. They never did a thing for me. Driving a box seemed goofy and I drove a couple SAAB so I know goofy.
I know the BMW's are more than capable of holding their own, same as the as the Honda, Mazda and other brands. But come on, we are a Porsche forum.
Now that I have had a 993 for almost 10 years and a 987 for 6 months I just cant even think of ever switching to another brand. (I would take a 500 hp Subaru or a 1000 hp Ford GT if anyone is feeling generous)

The issues or weaknesses ya'll mention on the 987 are what make it what it is. One of the best sports cars on the road. With all the specialists out there, and available here you can make your Cayman capable of doing anything you are capable of asking it to do. If your skills out do your cars potential we will see you on TV on the podium.

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2007 Cayman S
2006 R 350 Mercedes
1995 993 C2
1973 Jensen Interceptor III

Thank you all for your responses; there’s lots of food for thought here.

I’ll be the first to admit that I’m hardly an exceptional driver at the track. I credit the car for carrying me this far and being forgiving enough for me to probe its limits without fear. According to multiple 911-driving instructors, I’ve done some fairly stupid things in my Cayman that would have had me spinning off the track and into a wall in a 911 (or arguably worse, deep mud). As rubber_ducky and mjobrien have astutely pointed out though, it’s this very sweetness and ease of use that have me craving something a little more raw.

I agree with what many have said about the GT3 – the car is renowned for being difficult to extract the maximum from but incredibly rewarding when you get it right. One just has to treat it with lots of respect and never ever lift in a corner. With regular care and feeding, I have no doubt that the Mezger engine will prove absolutely bulletproof. A spendy alternative, but then life is short and we all have to make sacrifices to get what we want.

CBRacerX, since you’ve modded your CS into presumably exactly what you want/need for the track, can I ask you roughly how much it took to get all the reliability/braking mods in? (TTP, Accusump, under drive, power steering cooler, master cylinder and brake ducts). One possible outcome is that I may very well end up bringing the car to Sharkwerks and getting it all done in one shot – it certainly would be the most straightforward step from where I am now.

cbzzoom, could I please get you to elaborate on the 987.2: “there's a lot of annoying cheapness in the chassis; if you keep progressing it will eventually hold you back”? I still see myself as a relatively green driver and am curious as to how the 987.2 chassis might hold me back (now of course we all probably agree that the 987 platform can handle a great deal more power). Although there just aren’t that many used 987.2s on sale used with the options I want, the third possibility is that I could simply order a new one and if I did I would hang on to it for a very long time.

I have to admit that the logic of owning a dedicated race car (or a much more hardcore street car, such as a Lotus, Atom or what have you) is compelling, but my apartment dwelling self is going to have to make do with a single parking spot for now. Per Dave and Jeff picking a car is always going to involve some element of compromise (unless your last name is Lauren or Leno )

ps. I’m not going to get an M6 – a GT car just isn’t my speed. But it struck me how comfortable it was to brute force 4,000lbs of German steel around with that sweet V-10 and those gigantic brakes, when instead I had expected a soggy understeering mess (I admit it, my expectations were low going in)

IMHO, if you can afford a 987.2, I would choose to do that if possible so that you can save yourself from the headaches if you keep tracking your 987.1 and the expenses to retrofitting all the necessary bits to prevent the engine from suffering from either oil starvation, oil ingestion, con rod stretching, etc, etc.

BTW: The GT3 is not as bulletproof as you might have heard. I would recommend reading through the posts over at rennlist. You might be surprised to read about the coolant hoses getting loose on the GT3's because they were held by high strength adhesives that deteriorate over time. The dreaded ice pedal issue with the ABS module that prevents a driver from being able to apply the brakes on some scenarios at the track . On top of that If you blow up the engine on a GT3 it will cost you quite a bit of $$'s to replace.

I'm on my 3rd 987 based vehicle with my current Cayman R. I had a bunch of goodies ready to go in on my previous 2008 Cayman S Sport to make it track worthy. But in the end I decided to wait for a car like the CR before hitting the track seriously again because I wanted the peace of mind of having that would be as bulletproof as possible.

My previous track car was a 97 Acura NSX with a bunch of track mods (the yellow one on my avatar), back in 2004 I also purchased a 996 MKII GT3 when they just came out. Even with the extra power of the GT3 (385HP) vs NSX (290+HP) I still preferred the NSX because it was MR and it had a lot more control/feel on corner entry vs the GT3 that felt vague on corner entry. In the end the GT3 went and I kept the NSX.

The NSX had close to 100 track events without any major drivetrain issues (engine/tranny/LSD) before I returned it back to stock and sold it. Based on the fact that the Porsche Driving School has been using the 987.2's at their school in AL as well as the beating that the Interseries cars have experienced without any issues, I'm hoping that the 987.2 DFI engine will last as many track events as my previous Honda engine.

I would venture to offer that no European car will be as cheap to run or maintain as something Japanese, but there's never been a car like an NSX since it went out of production.

I think it makes sense to take budget & use into consideration. 'How fast do you want to go? How much do you want to spend?' With enough money, any of us could make a Cayman R Turbo with race suspension go faster than a GT3, and maybe do it cheaper on an ongoing basis. The trick is finding the intersection between the budget, track mods & fun-to-drive lines. I think most GT3 owners don't use their cars as DD's.

My R is getting RSS LCA's, Pagids & PSC's in the next few weeks. I will certainly look seriously at a roll bar/HANS/harnesses as the next phase. But it will still be a daily driver, and the TPC route is in the warranty-expiration future.

YMMV,

John

Nissan GT-R?

You can buy yourself a little time by simply switching your tyres to something a little more sticky. If you want a street and track tyre then the Super Sports work well and will offer more grip than the Hancook's, or for value go with the RE-11's.

A change of brake fluid and pads will allow you to brake harder and longer before any issues.

Are you driving with PSM off? Have you maxed out the stock camber settings?

Have you looked if you repeat your lap times lap after lap? If you don't have some sort of timer then now is the time to get one and confirm if you are maximising the car every lap and if there improvements to be made. A GPS timer with software allows you to review your lines and crtical data.

There is an upside and downside of switching to a 911 and that is the learning curve which needs to start all over again.

I'd not go with Corsa's though personally as they are a little bit too sticky for me without additional mods.....however if you've not had AOS smoking issues then maybe you could ask is oil starvation really an issue.

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'06 GR CS (SC, PASM, 19" Sport Design Wheels, Alu look exterior package, Bi-Xenon, Nav, Bose, Short shifter, Sports Seats & Wheel)
MODS: Cartronic remap, AASCO LWFW, Clutch Masters FX300 clutch & pressure plate, Improved AOS, Borla XR-1, Pagids, SS brake lines, GT3 brake ducts, IPD race plenum, 82mm GT3 TB, H&R Springs & Spacers 7F/14R, Silver hood crest, LED lights and.....De-Snork.

Mods aside...What is it that you are looking to accomplish? Are you wanting to be a Podium finisher and take home the cup? My take on this is that if you are tracking the car as much as you are, certain precautionary measures are an absolute. Are you looking to have fun? If so certain mods are still an absolute. I myself would rather drive a car at 10/10th's and "feel" like Mario Andretti. Thats a lot of fun. Its like a drug even if you acquire another "more" capable track car i will guarantee you that at some point you will be modding and improving on that too......

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