Planet 9

I don't see any 'other car' section, so please excuse me if this is the wrong post.

looking at 'car and driver review', it says that exige S driver experience can't even match F430 or GT3.

this car has 220 hp (conservative number) and 2100 lbs car.

What do you think of Exige S performance vs Cayman S on the track?

Please dont talk about comfort advantage or daily drivability of CS vs Exige S. IT's already a well known fact that CS comfort is way way way way up the Exige S, so it's not even up for debate or argument in this area.

Strictly track performance, which is better?

I think it can. I test drove a Lotus Exige S late last year, just before I placed an order for the Cayman S.

The Exige S is a phenomenal track car and is more hardcore and fun to drive around a track. However, as a daily driver it is virtually impossible to live with.

I would say that a Cayman S provides around 80% of the raw driving experience of an Exige S but is 100% more practical and better built.

Sorry but the supercharged Exige will eat a Cayman S's lunch. Been there and been passed. One of the guys I lap with has an Exige R (I think) which is not street legal and come with a cage, is delivered on slicks (not R's but slicks) and has no headlights etc. The car is so damn fast and can brake so late for corners it's nuts. It's a real go kart...no comparison. Even if you add back in the street stuff it's still freaking fast.

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'06 Cayman S -JIC Cross, Quaife, CCW C14 wheels,MPSC's, Milltek cat back, GT3 seats Schroth harnesses, TC design bar, Pagid yellows, GT3 cup brake ducts,de-snorked, vanilla air freshener RSR Instructor

Let me answer the question posed in your topic title.

The answer is "maybe, but it depends on the driver and the course"

Sure the Exige S has a much better power to weight ratio than the Cayman S, but so does an Ariel Atom and many other cars. A regular Exige is a very close competitor to the Cayman S with equal drivers, an Exige S with more horsepower "ought" to be faster in equal hands.

There are many things that people overlook though in a comparison like this.

1) How safely can the Lotus Exige S and Cayman S be driven at/near their potential - advantage Cayman S, especially in the hands of novice drivers who just ran out and bought the latest and greatest thing they read about in a magazine.

2) Durability - How long will both cars last under repeated punishment? Again advantage Cayman S. Visit the Elise/Exige message boards sometime and you'll see their cars are having MANY more problems than ours, and in some cases Lotus has yanked warranties from people who have tracked or modified their cars.

3) The Exige S includes a supercharger and is a premium over the Exige. The Cayman S doesn't include a supercharger but for around $13K you can get one from Orton and suddenly the advantage swings back to the Cayman.

In a nutshell you can always find things that are better or more preferred about one car over another so the answers to questions like the one you pose is always a "maybe" or "it depends". This in no way is meant to take anything away from either car, both are fine cars but both are not targeted at the same audience or driving criteria. Would you take an Ariel Atom to the supermarket? (Ok maybe to show it off but not to haul home groceries).

Enjoy cars for what they are, especially given that gasoline powered cars are likely to become extinct in our lifetimes...

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K-Man S

Exige S and Cayman S would be very close and would come down to a drivers race in most instances. The edge certainly goes to the Exige though on the track for sure.

The Cup would have more noticeable superiority over the Cayman S though with its 2000lbs and 250 plus hp.

But to answer your question...NO a Lotus cannot "smoke" a Cayman S. I know from 1st hand experience when a black Exige challenged me on 294S a couple of weeks back. He started falling back around 145-150mph and the Cayman just kept on going..........

So does that mean my Cayman "smoked" an Exige?

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08 GT3
07 Cayenne Turbo S
06 Cayman S - sold

Silent: maybe in a top speed run the CS is faster, I was talking track stuff and acceleration.
K Man S: there is no question that the Porsche is a better all round car and is likely to last longer. That was not the question though. The question is which is faster?
The fact that there are cars like the Atom and the Westfield among others says that there is a market for a hardcore track car that can be street driven. Anyone who buys a car like that is not buying it to get groceries and pick up kids at school. It's a track toy; it's not surprise it's good at the one thing it supposed to do well!

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'06 Cayman S -JIC Cross, Quaife, CCW C14 wheels,MPSC's, Milltek cat back, GT3 seats Schroth harnesses, TC design bar, Pagid yellows, GT3 cup brake ducts,de-snorked, vanilla air freshener RSR Instructor

I was talking about the exige R, with the supercharged 240hp motor....not the regular exige. I have no experience with the reguler one but I have driven an elise and it is certainly fast, even in NA trim. Which one is the SC one?? R or S?

meanwhile, check this video... http://www.autospies.com/news/VIDEO-...-Exige-S-5990/

Faster than a Gallardo on the power lap....and a Ferrari 575 and many more....

Here is the Cayman S video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VmuWz...elated&search=

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'06 Cayman S -JIC Cross, Quaife, CCW C14 wheels,MPSC's, Milltek cat back, GT3 seats Schroth harnesses, TC design bar, Pagid yellows, GT3 cup brake ducts,de-snorked, vanilla air freshener RSR Instructor

I know man, I agree with everything you said, just read my post.

My post was tinged with sarcasm and directed at gameson's post not yours.

It's just a strange question "can 07 lotus exige S smoke Cayman S?"

Pretty tough to answer such an ambigious question....was my point.

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08 GT3
07 Cayenne Turbo S
06 Cayman S - sold

Isn't it amazing that the CS, a car many of us drive every day, is almost as capable a track performer as the "track specific" Lotus? I for one am not suprised that Lotus could build a track specific, stripped down, uncomfortable car that could tear around the track faster than the stock CS. Comprably fitted and tweaked it may end up the other way around. And you could still probably drive it legally on the street.

You guys are funny.

Here is my brother setting up to pass a Lotus in his M5 at Laguna on Friday.

And one of me setting up to pass an '01 Turbo in my Cayman, no S.

Which cars are the best track cars?

EDIT***Ignore...I see the thumbnails now.

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08 GT3
07 Cayenne Turbo S
06 Cayman S - sold

If you chaps want to fight this out fine......but why not let Autocar do it for you?

They ran an Exige S and a Cayman S with other cars on a track day. The Cayman was faster, but only .2 second. However The Exige was a stripped Track car, No Sat-Nav No Air-con, No Air-bags etc.

For Me this makes the Cayman the winner, not because of the time but because a fully "Normal" road going car with normal tyres STILL (JUST) beat a stripped out car with cut slicks and no "Day To Day" use.

Just wait for the Clubsport................then the RS
Mike

That lotus is like a go-cart. It isn't really a street car.

My brother and I had a "fantasy weekend". We drove Laguna Seca on Friday with Hooked on Driving (awesome outfit) then did Infineon Sa and Sun with BMWCCA.

At Infineon:

This was the first S-less Cayman any of these guys had ever seen let alone driven/riden in. It was pretty funny. These guys are BMW bigots. One guy was telling me how bad the Cayman was going to be around the track because of the mid-engine "polar moment" factor and that I might spin out of control becaiuse of the lack of weight on the ends of the car "like a tight-rope walker without a balancing pole".

That was before he drove it, and passed several 333HP E46 BMWs driven by fellow instructors.

He told his buddies that he thought it was the perfect track car.

There were some seriously fast Porsche GT2's and 3's out there in higher classes.

At Laguna there was one guy with a Carrera GT. Holy **** that was an amazing car.

I am going to post a Cayman Action Report once I get my pics and videos organized.

Your going to have to assume the same driver in both cars. In low end acceleration, Lotus claims 0 - 60 in 4.1. No contest, Exige S wins. Top speed? Exiges tops out under 150. No contest. CS wins.

Ring times? CS 8' 11" Exige 8' 32" Will the additional HP equate to times below 8 11?

Exige weight 2060 Exige S 2060
Exige HP 190 Exige S HP 218

Will those 28 extra HP make it faster around the Ring with equal drivers than the CS?

Where the BMW instructor said: "At Infineon:

This was the first S-less Cayman any of these guys had ever seen let alone driven/riden in. It was pretty funny. These guys are BMW bigots. One guy was telling me how bad the Cayman was going to be around the track because of the mid-engine "polar moment" factor and that I might spin out of control becaiuse of the lack of weight on the ends of the car 'like a tight-rope walker without a balancing pole'."


Perhaps these guys should go back to physics 1 before they make statements like that.

Pity all those IRL/ChampCar/F1 drivers whose cars will be spinning like a top because of the lack of weight out at the ends of the car.

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Robert

I'm not sure that the 'Ring is the right comparison for the two cars...lots of very high speed running there. That's like saying the Lotus is better since it can beat a CS on a tight AutoX course...
Anyway, from what I've experienced with the stipped down S/C exige R that i play with is that they are fast, real fast, faster then my stock CS. We are both comparable and experienced drivers so there would be a small gap in times if we switched. (He was 1 sec a lap faster in his race prepped Mini Cooper S than I was my first time in it).
Anyway, who really cares? I like my car and think that his exige R is the cats meow on the track...but then I get to drive mine home and his is on a trailer behind his Jeep Liberty!

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'06 Cayman S -JIC Cross, Quaife, CCW C14 wheels,MPSC's, Milltek cat back, GT3 seats Schroth harnesses, TC design bar, Pagid yellows, GT3 cup brake ducts,de-snorked, vanilla air freshener RSR Instructor

chows,
Is that the actual official times? Wow, I know the Ring is a fast course but damn that is a big difference if it is correct.

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08 GT3
07 Cayenne Turbo S
06 Cayman S - sold

With regard to the inaccurate physics statement made by the bmw guy, having the weight in the nose and tail of the car makes it harder to change direction in the car so if you do start to spin you won't be able to counter steer and save it, much in the same way that if the tightrope walker starts to fall they can't adjust that long pole with weights on the end enough to prevent the fall, a shorter rod with say no weight on the end allows the walker to make quicker adjustments to prevent a fall. An ice skater picks up speed (angular momentum) when the weight is shifted from the outstretched arms into the body when doing spins. The Cayman doesn't shift weight from the bumper to the middle of the car, the weight dominance is always in the middle.

As lifted from another site:

Polar moment of inertia in a race vehicle is the center of all forces. It is the place that the race vehicle pivots about. The polar moment is also the center of weight in the vehicle or actually the center of gravity. The farther away from the polar moment weight is added to the vehicle, the more of a pendulum effect it will have when the vehicle changes directions.

Let's not complicate this with some scientific explanation. Here's an example that will hopefully illustrate how it works. Think of your vehicle as a set of barbells with 50 pounds of weight at each end. Imagine trying to quickly turn and stop the bar bell while holding it. You will notice that it’s hard to turn and hard to stop turning once it starts because of momentum. Now lets move the weights in close to the center of the bar and try it again. Notice now that the bar turns, and stops turning, easier because the weights have less distance to travel. Reduced polar moment of inertia makes a vehicle feel like it "wants" to change direction. The vehicle feels better and the suspension is easier to tune.


Last but not least from our Wiki friends...

Polar moment of inertia is a measure of an object's ability to resist torsion. It is required to calculate the twist of an object subjected to a torque. It is analogous to the area moment of inertia, which characterizes an object's ability to resist bending and is required to calculate displacement.

The larger the polar moment of inertia, the less the beam will twist, when subjected to a given torque.

The polar moment of inertia must not be confused with the moment of inertia, which characterizes an object's angular acceleration due to a torque.




What your BMW instructor may have been referring to was that typically the driver is near the center of balance and in a car with a low polar moment, one that can change directions quickly, is that if your car does start to slide the driver may not sense it as quickly as they would in a 57 caddy with heavy bumpers so their reaction time may be delayed and corrective action delayed meaning a spin happens.

My response to that would be "No I've got enough skill to drive one of these masterpieces, I don't need a heavy brick to tell me my car is turning"

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K-Man S

Yup ... http://www.supercars.net/PitLane?vie...ID=0&tID=10073

8:11* -- 151,274 km/h -- Porsche Cayman S, 295 PS/1340 kg, test driver Walter Roehrl (*mfr.) (sport auto 07/05)

8:32 --- 144.844 km/h -- Lotus Exige, 192hp (sport auto 08/04)

As to the Ring not being the right comparison ... well, its the place all the car makers go to get bragging rights ...

When the Z06 gave a poor showing with the Project Director driving ... they went and brought in a professional race driver just to get the times down.

If your truly racing, Dont the F1 guys or whoever else swap the gearing to match the tracks? Didn't the Porsche 917Ks have very tall gearing to get maximum speeds in the Mulsanne Straights??? I could be wrong.

I think the RING is the great equalizer. Everyone knows it. Everyone respects it. Most everyone tests their mules there. They get bragging rights.

I agree 100%. It is THE proving ground for an automobile IMHO.

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08 GT3
07 Cayenne Turbo S
06 Cayman S - sold