Planet 9

Nissan GT-R, that is.

This weekend my brother, ChrisN, and I went to the Fernley Raceway in Nevada with Hooked on Driving. I in my Cayman, and he in his Nissan GT-R. He also currently owns and tracks a 997 EVOMS 700+ HP Turbo. We have each been to Fernley once previously, running the same "B configuration" of the course.



First some subjective info regarding what constitutes a "fast time" for this configuration. I submit the following anecdotes:

1) A 2:00 lap around Thunderhill is considered an incredible time for any streetable car. My brother has a best of 2:07 in his 997 Turbo, and I have run a 2:14 in my stock Cayman S. Under 2:10 in a stock Cayman S is considered very fast. Quickexotica has run under 2:10 on R compound tires, and he is a great driver. Mooty is maybe under 2:05 in his GT3RS. If I have this wrong, correct me, guys.

OK...so there is a guy who has run a 2:02 at thunderhill in the reverse direction in his M3...amazing. He ran a best of 2:26 in a time trial at Fernley on the B course. Same driver, same car.

2) There was only one guy who passed my brother at Fernley. He was driving a race prepped Z06 on racing slicks, has over 3000 laps on the B course, is a local, and showed up in his monster "tour bus". His best is a 2:20.

3)Scott...another local...has run over 3500 laps on the course and has published track maps with racing lines for Fernley, etc. He says that a 2:20 is about a fast as anyone can do the course in a streetable car, and that it would have to be a modified car.

So...I am going with a 2:20 being roughly the same as a 2:00 at Thunderhill. That should give NorCal folks a good point of reference. Please challenge my math and add your thoughts.

On Saturday I drove My Cayman S all day. Bone stock. PS2s. I didn't get any telemetry...my plan was to "wire up" the Traqmate on Sunday. I ended up cording my tires after day 1...so no objective data. But, I can tell you that I did well in the intermediate group and estimate my laps to be in the 2:40 to 2:45 range.

On Sunday I got in the GT-R and immediately was running 2:36. Second session I ran 2:30. I was putting 10 to 15 seconds on every other car each lap. It was incredible.

My brother was manhandling a group of 5 or 6 hardcore Z06s and a 997GT3, among others in the advanced group.

(Video to be inserted when Youtube upload finished)

These guys are no slouches.

Chris ran a 2:26 or 2:27. First time driving the car on a track.

More details in the morning.

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2007 Speed Yellow Cayman GT 2.7 (retired)
2008 Guards Red Cayman GT 3.4
"Carpe Cayman"

What's the length of the B configuration?

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K-Man S

Approximately 14,731.74 feet, depending on your line. (From GPS). That's 2.79 Miles.

Here's one of the raw videos (unedited, just with data overlay). Prob best to FF to 12:00, as is mostly me and open track before I start to catch the GT3 (for the sedond time). I didn't lap him-- he must have gone in and come back out to avoid traffic.

Nissan GT-R (R35) chasing Porshe 997 GT3 at Reno-Fernley Raceway

(YouTube upload kept failing, so I tried Viddler for first time)

Here's Dave's best lap: http://homepage.mac.com/cnicholson1/...eyDaveBest.m4v

Again, sorry for being video challenged. YouTube has been not working at all for me, or dropping audio, or having crappy quality.

-Chris

A Cayman inspires confidence because of it's neutral behavior. It is commonly accepted that your average DE guy can get in a Cayman and get around a track more quickly than he could in a lot of other cars...even cars with a lot more HP because of the balance of the car. I think the GT-R takes this to the next level.

I saw 3 primary advantages in the GT-R versus my Cayman.

1) The AWD allows you to claw out of what would be a speed scrubbing understeer situation in the Cayman

2) The HP adds to this capability and added throttle gets you out of trouble instead of further into it.

3) The dual clutch transmission allows you to shift at will in corners, under braking, etc. For me this was huge. In the video it is hard to appreciate how steep the "hoot n' holler" section is going uphill and switching back and forth. In my Cayman I had a choice...take it in second gear AutoX-style with a point where I would have to back off the throttle to avoid redlining...or shift into third and bog down. The point where I needed to upshift was invariably at a point where very, very careful heel-toe technique would be required to keep you on the track.

These were my impressions. The GT-R is realtively easy to drive quickly on a track. It inpires a lot of confidence and is a heck of a lot of fun. The crowd that is only happy in a Miata without power steering will not like the GT-R. It takes the sting out of making a mistake. For the casual track day participant, it is a beautiful thing.

For those insist upon playing golf with bamboo clubs and avacado pits, it will be a worthy object for derision. LOL.

Any questions? Is anyone reading this?

I am not a GT-R fanboy...just trying to add top the body of knowledge here at The Club.

Dave

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2007 Speed Yellow Cayman GT 2.7 (retired)
2008 Guards Red Cayman GT 3.4
"Carpe Cayman"

Hi Dave - thanks for the post. I love the GT-R. All the car makers will have to sharpen their pencils and give more for the dollar because of them. I like my Porsche and will keep driving it simply because I love it. I hope that Porsche continues to make our CS's better. Rumors of 320 hp and and LSD, PDK are a good start for 2009.

I just wish the GT-R was offered in higher volumes. Right now it's hard to treat them as a serious volume competitor when they are only making a few thousand a year. Ferrari only makes about 4000 per year (if memory serves). Porsche makes about 100,000 cars per year. Even if every GT-R buyer replaced a Porsche sale - big whoop.

So go GT-R! Ramp up production. Nibble away at Porsche's heels and make them react.

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Not that anyone but DaveN007 and I are reading, but here's some more video:

Have a fast connection? Bored? Click here:

http://homepage.mac.com/cnicholson1/...es_Montage.mov

34 minutes of passes (with a little bit of me trying to keep up with the fastest guy out there).

Sorry about the music--- I hate music in track vids too, but I lost the sound track and thought music was better than silence. If you disagree, click mute.

-Chris

Wow, Chris, that is great video. Sounds like you had a great weekend at the track.

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2007 Speed Yellow Cayman GT 2.7 (retired)
2008 Guards Red Cayman GT 3.4
"Carpe Cayman"

I'm reading and watching. Thanks for all the feedback guys. I've had to delay my delivery of the GTR because of another possible move but damn this thing looks good. Out of curiousity have either of you driven the E92? On track? Street? Care to offer a comparison with the GTR if so?

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2008 Cayman S, Black, Floormats

I have never driven one, but the three that were at the track this weekend were completely outgunned by the GT-R. Two of the three I handled in my Cayman, the last was even with me.

I'll bet they are fantastic cars on the street, though. I had an E36 M3 that I had supercharged by Dinan. Loved the car, although I never tracked it.

My brother owns an E90 M5, so he can compare the transmissions if you are talking about the SMG model. (Is there an SMG option?)

I would say that the only cars in the GT-Rs class are going to be well driven Z06s, 997 Turbos and GT3s. Anything else needs serious modifications and/or a truly outstanding driver.

Maintenance costs and long term reliability remain a bit of an unknown with the GT-R, especially when run on the track. A Cayman may end up looking like a Miata compared to it.

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2007 Speed Yellow Cayman GT 2.7 (retired)
2008 Guards Red Cayman GT 3.4
"Carpe Cayman"

Chris,
I didn't mind the music other than I could not hear when you were letting off the gas vs. still on the gas so at times it was difficult to tell why your car was doing what it was doing vs. other cars on the track. I would say that the blue car that passed you (was that an NSX hard to see in the video?) was driven by a driver who knew where he was going on that track. Several of the Corvette drivers were wandering all over the track and way off line. I also found it amusing that at times drivers in front of you felt "pressured" by you being behind them and they would make makes (usually too late or too early apex) because of it. Perhaps the GTR looks scary in the rear view mirror. It would also have been nice to hear some tires so I could try to judge the roadholding ability of the GTR, if it has a weakness that I can see based on the video it is transition time and weight penalty coming out of the corners. I thought it had good braking going into the corners so the weight penalty doesn't seem to show up there, but coming out of the corners if you aren't carrying enough speed or in the right gear, etc. it shows up a bit there as some other cars would pull on you there. I suspect my Cayman would pull on you there as well but that would probably be about it, no way I could match your straightline speed and diving into corners would probably be a wash the only hope of eeking out any advantage would be sustained speed in corner and corner exit but its hard to build any advantage when you are eeking out a 1/2 second here or there and giving up 3 seconds on the straight. Looks like a fun car to drive, hopefully it ends up being solid and you have a lot of fun with it. You should bring it to Croctoberfest...

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K-Man S

I'm reading. Thanks for sharing. Interesting stuff.

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Here one with no music (not my fastest laps, but close):
YouTube - Nissan GT-R laps at Reno-Fernley

Unfortunately, car has almost no exhaust noise (I will fix that eventually), so you'll need to listen to trans whine for throttle input. Also, for some reason, the data overlay is not in sync (it is about 1 second faster than video)

I was in the fastest run group, but a lot of guys (like me) were learning the track, resulting in many creative lines.

In terms of transition timing and roadholding, you may want to look at the recent Motor Trend "Best Handling Car" review. Although the R8 "won," the GT-R beat everything on almost every objective metric (other than the Viper ACR racecar).

Here's the transition test (GT-R won): America's Best Handling Car - Contenders and Instrument Testing - Comparison - Motor Trend

Atlanta is a bit of a drive from SF-- maybe next year.

Someone still needs to see if they can match up last year's test with the Cayman to this year's test which looks like it had more/different options. I single reaction to steering input is one thing, mutiple reactions say to an "S" or compound "S" is something else entirely, plus we are of course limited to how you drove the car in the video vs. how Motor Trend's driver drove it in their test. (Not slamming your driving skills, just saying two different drivers, two different cars, two different days)

Yep you gotta work on an exhaust note. Was that blue car an NSX? I'm assuming not stock, maybe a supercharged one? Anyway it looks like a car that is very capable out of the box and will only get better as you learn to drive it and get more experience with it.

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K-Man S

1. Look at MT test, GT-R won the S-test also. All slalom tests I have read rank GT-R in top 3 of all production cars (Edmunds said #1, I think).

2. MT drive was Randy Pobst (pro racer and Porsche driver). With him driving, GT-R was faster than all other than Viper

3. NSX claimed to be 600HP+ (although he could not pull on me on straights). I let him pass once when I was getting coaching advice. Only car to pass me while I was focusing was a black Z06 (may have looked blue in crappy video).

At any rate, I will be back on track at Thill on 9/19 with a faster crowd (usually draws several Caymans, Lotuses (Loti?), etc. ), so will be interesting to see if I can stay with more nimble cars in the tight turns.

Anecdote from another thread:

Sepang:

997 GT3 with gentleman driver: 2:43
E92 M3 with gentleman driver: 2:41
Evo 9MR stock with good driver: 2:37
Honda S2000 stock with GT wing: 2:43
Gallardo Superleggera stock with good driver: 2:31
Honda Civic Type R FD2 with good driver: 2:40
Cayman S with gentleman driver: 2:41
Nissan GTR R35 with gentleman driver: 2:37
Nissan GTR R35 with good driver: 2:28 (?)
Formula 1 2007: 1:34

All cars manual unless except GTR and F1 - sequential single/dual clutch.

So Cayman 2.7 with gentleman driver (me) at 2:45 isn't such a lofty goal.

__________________

2007 Speed Yellow Cayman GT 2.7 (retired)
2008 Guards Red Cayman GT 3.4
"Carpe Cayman"

Nice work for a Gentleman indeed!!
KJ

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So Yesterday was the first day out at the "home" track with the GT-R. ChrisN ran a sub 2:04 lap. Here is a 2:05.

Viddler.com - Nissan GT-R Thunderhill Lap (2:05) - Uploaded by cnicholson

This is faster than his 2:07 in his 997 Turbo...with lots of experience and MAJOR modifications to the suspension and power (700 plus HP).

First day out. Bone stock car from the showroom floor.

There are a few members around here who can appreciate what this means since Thunderhill is a pretty popular track.

I maintained my stock Cayman S best of 2:14 despite the beautiful new track surface. Next time I will be shaving some time. This day was all about trying new things which invariably slowed my lap times as I carried a lot more speed through certain segments...then had to figure out completely new braking points, etc. It was a great day. Another classic day with the HOD folks.

I will get little brother to add his comments as we are now the resident GT-R fanboys.

There was a guy named Derric with his 997 GT3 on Hoosiers running sub 2:05, and Mooty was there but I am not sure what he was driving.

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2007 Speed Yellow Cayman GT 2.7 (retired)
2008 Guards Red Cayman GT 3.4
"Carpe Cayman"

But if the GTR with a front engine can handle that well all due its electronic gadgetry, why cant the 911 do the same with the rear engine??

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"Sir! We're surrounded!" - "Excellent! We can shoot in any direction!"

A good car will get you from point A to point B. A great car... will just get you into trouble!

The GTR is front mid engine. Rear bias better for accelerating, front bias better for braking, track differences, tire choice, weight, etc.

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2008 Cayman S, Black, Floormats

Here are some pics of the GT-R and 997TT: MobileMe Gallery

My all-day best in the GT-R was 2:05.6 in the video. That was in my third session. After lunch, I switched to Turbo for last two sessions. Did 2:07 in Turbo. In last session, TraqMate came unplugged so I have no data. However I was pretty evenly matched with a buddy who was doing 2:04s and one 2:03.9. I'm guessing I did sub 2:05 in the TT--- and I know I was pushing it more than the GT-R.

My conclusion was that the cars are pretty evenly matched. But GT-R would easily smoke a stock 997TT with most drivers. Perhaps a pro would make it a closer call, but the GT-R is just easier drive fast.

Mooty was in a 997GT3 I think. I assume he is sub-2:00, but did not ask him. He was running with the "big boys" in the race-prepped group.