Planet 9

**Bodhii** · #1 11-12-2008, 11:25 AM

Sports car fans are in for a real treat! Audi is planning a striking new mid-engined machine – the R4. The newcomer will be based on an entirely new platform and sit above the TT in Audi’s range, offering buyers a driver-focused two-seater with a starting price of around £35,000.

It’s the result of a rumoured joint venture with Porsche – so the project will produce a new platform to underpin Coupé and Roadster versions of the R4, and also provide the basis for the next Boxster and Cayman. It’s these core sellers in the Porsche line-up that the R4 will target.

Next Boxster is unleashed

We’ve taken the wraps off the new R4... now here is your best look yet at its sister model: the next Boxster. And although it benefits from the same platform as the mid-engined Audi, it will be a true Porsche through-and-through.

Rather than use four-wheel drive, the Boxster – and its tin-top Cayman stablemate – will continue with the firm’s traditional rear-wheel-drive set-up, with power coming from a direct-injection petrol flat-six. However, the company is under pressure to reduce its overall CO2 emissions, and one of the easiest ways to do so – and improve fuel economy at the same time – is to adopt a smaller engine.

That’s where this shock joint venture will pay dividends, as entry-level versions of the next-generation Boxster and Cayman will use Audi’s 2.0-litre turbocharged four-cylinder unit. The new Boxster should arrive in less than two years’ time, with the Cayman following shortly after that.

Audiâ€™s baby R8 ready to roll | Auto Express News | News | Auto Express
Report: Expanded Audi R range back on the table - MotorAuthority - Car news, reviews, spy shots

**KS-CS** · #2 11-12-2008, 11:53 AM

A baby R8 - I like it.

I wonder if they would still plan to keep the TT, since it seems that they would be filling almost the same niche . . .

ARCuhTEK · #3 11-12-2008, 03:11 PM

Beautiful...I would be interested.

ARCuhTEK · #4 11-12-2008, 03:14 PM

I retract that.....the photo above is an R8 not an R4. If you click the link...there are several photos there too. One is a Boxster (interesting looking) the others are an R8..... The only R4 is the red car....and I dont like it.

I love the R8..... the R4 just looks like a redesigned TT.

**suneet** · #5 11-12-2008, 04:08 PM

It does look a lot like a TT and I personally think having it in the product line would detract from the exclusivity of the R8 and be a bad move for Audi.

**Bodhii** · #6 11-12-2008, 05:08 PM

Thnx. Picture has been corrected.

I personally think having it in the product line would detract from the exclusivity of the R8 and be a bad move for Audi.

... I agree completely.

I am surprised that no one remarks about Audi and Porsche joining together in making a joint partnership for the future Porsche Cayman platform.

... the project will produce a new platform to underpin Coupé and Roadster versions of the R4, and also provide the basis for the next Boxster and Cayman. It’s these core sellers in the Porsche line-up that the R4 will target.

... the next-generation Boxster and Cayman will use Audi’s 2.0-litre turbocharged four-cylinder unit.

Its kinda surprising that Audi/Porsche will go for controlling this market segment completely with 2 similar models, rather than competing for it, or deciding that one model would be more profitable. The new Lotus Evora should certainly make a dent into this segment, I think.

Audi R4

The new Lotus Evora

ARCuhTEK · #7 11-12-2008, 07:58 PM

That photo looks nothing like the R4 in the article. I like THIS photo.....nice car. Wow I feel like a ping pong ball between photos!!

**K-Man S** · #8 11-12-2008, 09:40 PM

You know I like the look of the Evora, but I think two things will hurt it:

1) Lotus - Hard to find dealers, hard to find good service - that's OK for track cars like the Elise and Exige, not sure if it will be acceptible to Evora owners.

2) Storage space - actually lack thereof, the Cayman actually has some practicality to it, doesn't look like the Evora has much if any more storage space than the Exige or Elise which is paltry at best.

**JCay** · #9 11-13-2008, 12:32 AM

Well the Evora has back seats for storage i guess

Kwaaiman · #10 11-13-2008, 12:34 AM

"I am surprised that no one remarks about Audi and Porsche joining together in making a joint partnership for the future Porsche Cayman platform"

Does this means Porsche is no longer turning the 911 engine around to build a front engined flat6 2 door 2+2 coupe called the "Parrera" and the future 911 replacement codename 981 "Cayrerra" for a mid engined sportscar to compete with the R8 has been shelved?

kareldeeley · #11 11-13-2008, 01:05 AM

Originally Posted by K-Man S

You know I like the look of the Evora, but I think two things will hurt it:

1) Lotus - Hard to find dealers, hard to find good service - that's OK for track cars like the Elise and Exige, not sure if it will be acceptible to Evora owners.

2) Storage space - actually lack thereof, the Cayman actually has some practicality to it, doesn't look like the Evora has much if any more storage space than the Exige or Elise which is paltry at best.

You also missed an Important Point on the Lotus offerings............

Build Quality.......

Don't get me wrong, I Love Lotus to Bits - Every single one of them........

But they are all just Kit Cars with Super Driveability BUT...

Questionable Build Quality

**K-Man S** · #12 11-13-2008, 01:11 AM

Yeah sorry, the hard to find good service is because you will need it a lot because of the build quality... or lack thereof...

kareldeeley · #13 11-13-2008, 01:59 AM

Originally Posted by K-Man S

Yeah sorry, the hard to find good service is because you will need it a lot because of the build quality... or lack thereof...

I was also talking about the Aesthetic Quality - not just the Mechanical Reliability - PROBLEMS...........

Look Everywhere on Every Lotus, and you see Poor Construction, Poor Quality Finish, Switches, Interior Trim, Poor Practical Living Design, (As a Race Driver's Car, Unbeatable) ..........

However you have to overlook the fact that the doors do not fit, There is No Luggage space and the Electrics do not work..............

From the 'Complaints' I see on this Porsche Cayman - Enthusiasts Forum, Nobody here, would be even marginally satisfied with a Lotus.....

ul2fly · #14 11-13-2008, 08:02 AM

Saving the flat six for the non entry-level sounds like a good idea to me.
I personally wouldn't own a porsche with out the flat six. It seems that Porsche will be forcing our hand this time.

gtscayman · #15 11-13-2008, 12:48 PM

Originally Posted by Kwaaiman

"I am surprised that no one remarks about Audi and Porsche joining together in making a joint partnership for the future Porsche Cayman platform"

Does this means Porsche is no longer turning the 911 engine around to build a front engined flat6 2 door 2+2 coupe called the "Parrera" and the future 911 replacement codename 981 "Cayrerra" for a mid engined sportscar to compete with the R8 has been shelved?

And what about the rumoured mid-engine SUV - the Caymenne? Two seats in the front and three waaaaay in the rear. If the kids get noisy, you just wick it up and drown out the noise.

Anders2727 · #16 11-13-2008, 01:57 PM

While I think an R4 would be a wonderful car, why would Porsche do this if it essentially owns Audi? Why not just make the Cayman better? Porsche can charge more for that. Plus, an R4 is just going to steal sales from Porsche and push the brand down market.

Seems strange to me.

**Bodhii** · #17 11-13-2008, 04:30 PM

So "IF" the above info about this joint partnership on the Audi R4/ Porsche Cayman, is actually correct,... then the pic of the R4 above, is also an actual photo of the completely NEW Porsche Cayman's chassis, but with some Audi body parts hiding it. LOL.

If true, the new Cayman model will certainly be much wider than the current Cayman model. ( see above photo). Looks like 70" growing to 74" ala R8! And also much longer... Probably from the current 95" stretching to about 100-104". This would represent a completely NEW Cayman indeed, with completely new ( and very unPorsche-like) feel and cornering abilities. Knowing very well the handling abilities of the Audi R8, I don't think this is necessarily a "bad" thing, but it is significantly different, and very different from traditional Porsche.

And maybe I'm wrong, but it is my impression that most current CS owners are NOT true believers in Forced Induction systems, much less when combined to these likely small, highly compressed, 2.0 four cylinder & 2.5 five cylinder engine systems,.. Yet this article speaks as if that will be standard on the new model Cayman. These new engines will be a long long way from a 3.8L X51!!

I guess it is also rumored that Porsche will be making a rare future product announcement on the 17th. Right now I am in a little shock. Just a few months ago, all rumors were that when Porsche took over Audi, they would actually END production of both the R6S and the R8 entirely. Now it looks as if Audi will be the future major DESIGNER for a huge part of Porsche itself. I do understand it all. And it seems to make some good basic economic sense. Nevertheless, I am shocked!

**Chris S** · #18 11-13-2008, 07:29 PM

Originally Posted by Anders2727

While I think an R4 would be a wonderful car, why would Porsche do this if it essentially owns Audi? Why not just make the Cayman better? Porsche can charge more for that. Plus, an R4 is just going to steal sales from Porsche and push the brand down market.

Seems strange to me.

Same reason Apple went down market w/ the iPod (or that Porsche went down market w/ the Boxster), to expand their total available market. A cheaper mid-engine car done right should produce greater revenues and profits. Sure, some cannibalization will occur, but net net they should gain market share by covering more of the market.

Kwaaiman · #19 11-13-2008, 09:49 PM

The future of the Cayman is really determined by the 911. The recent revamp of the 997 and 987 indicate the future- excellent revamp of the 997 and apathy for the Cay/Box (dubious styling, no DFI for base etc). The CayS with mid engine, 911 parts, DFI motor, PDK is just going to be too good.

An Audi with the Porsche flat 6 and PDK will still be an awesome car. The build quality will be better than Finnish Caybox for one. Will it be as good as a 911 derived Caybox? Well, which is better- the 911 or R8?? (I don't know)

edit: as for the 4cyl DSG Caybox- there ia a Porsche badge on just about everything..so who cares about another on an Audi

DFI

Direct Fuel Injection (DFI), is a new technology that Porsche states can cut fuel consumption by up to 15 percent, while increasing power by up to 13 percent. DFI cuts emissions by warming up the catalytic converter more quickly, and ensures a sharper throttle response. Better for your right foot - and the planet, then.

DFI allows much more precise measurement of fuel supply and injection at pressures up to 120 bar; it has numerous combustion modes, with different cycles for cold-starting, low-speed driving and performance driving.

As the name suggests, DFI injects fuel directly into the individual combustion chambers, instead of the intake manifold. The injector valves have an electromagnetic mechanism that controls each injection with astonishing precision, while a high-pressure pump provides the necessary pressure—up to 1,740 psi—to accompany the rapid fire of the fuel injection.

Precise geometry of the injector’s position and its spray pattern is a key factor in helping to improve power, torque and emissions of the engines. The specific placement of the fuel as it enters each chamber creates a swirl that improves the air/fuel mixture, and therefore the overall combustion process.

At engine speeds up to 3500 rpm, a double-injection process is used. In this mode, the required fuel volume is delivered in two successive injections per working stroke. The resulting benefits include faster catalyst warm-up and increased torque in the upper load range.

By forming the air/fuel mix directly in the combustion chamber, DFI contributes to engine cooling. As a result, it is possible to increase the compression ratio and with it the power and efficiency of the engine.

The direct injection process is continuously adjusted. The engine management system reads changes to throttle inputs and performance requirements and, as you drive, the air/fuel mix is monitored and adapted as required. Oxygen sensor circuits within the exhaust system provide accurate emissions control.

gtscayman · #20 11-14-2008, 12:26 AM

Another way to look at it is Porsche sells an awd platform of the Boxster/Cayman and stays with the RWD version themselves. Obviously they already support several 911 variants successfully, why not this. And it wouldn't be considered as a direct competition to either of the Porsche lines. Everybody thought they were suicidal pricing a hardtop above a convertible too.....