Cayman and Boxster ComparisonsThis sub forum is for messages specifically about comparing the Cayman or Boxster to other cars. For example how the Cayman compares to the 350Z or the Boxster to the S2000 or SLK, etc.
OK gang. I bought a 2007 CS this week and it has joined my 2005 Ferrari F430 which I've owned since new. Both are stick shifts and both are currently wearing PS2's.
I'll try to be brief in my comparisons:
Package:
I've admired the Boxster/cayman package since new. Using the boxer six down low not only reduces center of gravity but makes it a pretty practical sportscar. The biggest downside of a mid engine is finding room for occupants and storage. This package is the very best at that. The downside is you can't see the motor. The Ferrari is significantly bigger in external dimensions and certainly takes a different approach with the motor on display. They even made the rear view mirror oversized so you can see the red crackle painted plenums while you are driving. The cockpit is spacious with a good amount of storage up front and behind the seats.
Ergonomics and features:
I have leather sport seats in the CS. I like them much better than the standard seats. But they do not compete with the Ferrari's seats which practically swallow you up and support in every conceivable way. Still the CS's seats are among the best I've had or tried. The CS's controls are (thankfully) pretty simple and easily operated without looking. The cup holders are really slick. But why two speedos? Whose idea was that? Seems to me the space would be better used for oil pressure and temperature gauges. But the stereo is terrific. The Ferrari is simpler. No cruise, no cup holders but it does have oil pressure and temp guages. The tach is huge and the speedo almost an afterthought. The stereo is ****. I have the base one but the upgrade is **** also.
On the road:
The CS is easier to drive generally. The ride with PASM in sport is very similar to the Ferrari though the Porsche seems to rock and roll a little more. Perhaps the shorter wheelbase and narrower width contributes to this. The Ferrari feels more planted. There is more wheel noise in the Porsche. The Ferrari gets the nod here. The steering is very close in weighting. The 430 might be a bit lighter. Feedback is close but a little better in the 430. The shifter is easier in the CS but the throws are longer. The Ferrari has the traditional gated shifter and gets the nod here on just being more cool. Both are great. Clutch takeup is lighter and shorter in the 430 making a little more difficult to modulate. Combine that with a very small diameter clutch that makes revs drop quickly and startup is trickier in the 430 than most cars. I'll give the CS the nod here. On a twisty road with spirited driving, both cars drive beautifully. The CS (probably because of smaller size and lower weight) feels more tossable in the sharpest turns but the Ferrari excels as speed increases and feels more planted. In magazine tests, handling was very close between the two cars and I have no reason to doubt it. I like them both. I'll know better when I get the Cayman to a track. The CS's brake pedal is a little squishier than the Ferrari but nicely linear. I prefer hard pedals myself and that's what Ferraris have. Both are excellent.
The motor:
Porsche has chosen to hide it and it doesn't make much noise either. The power is well suited to the car. The torque curve is so broad and flat that it is easy to be lazy about downshifting, but it takes away some of the thrill of feeling power build as revs increase. The motor is the Ferrari's centerpiece. Not only is it on display, but Ferrari makes sure you always hear it through the exhaust and all the mechanicals right behind your head. They also use very hard bushings for motor mounts so you can always feel it as well. It is extremely responsive. It is a thrill and this is where Ferrari kills all other cars, not by power, but just sheer thrill. Ferrari motors were always like this, even ones from the 80's which are not very powerful.
Summary:
So far, I like the CS better than I thought I would. The mid engine layout makes it feel a lot like the Ferrari in overall character. The CS drives beautifully and with precision. The Ferrari drives with flair and athleticism. So, is the 430 worth 2.7X a CS? Of course not. Ferraris have always been bad deals in any price vs performance comparison. But they are addictive.
Dave
Questions will be happily answered.
PASM - Porsche Active Suspension Management
This active damping system offers continuous adjustment of individual damping forces based on current road conditions and driving style.
The driver can choose from two setup modes, ‘Normal’ and ‘Sport’, using a separate ‘damper’ button on the center console. ‘Normal’ mode is designed for general road driving and circuits with uneven tarmac. ‘Sport’ mode is intended for smoother track surfaces, where the harder settings help eliminate pitch and roll.
In either mode, PASM continuously evaluates the current conditions while automatically selecting the corresponding damper rates from the respective set of mapped values.
A range of sensors are used to monitor the movement of the body under acceleration, braking and cornering maneuvers, as well as on poor road surfaces. The PASM control unit then evaluates this data and modifies the damping force on each individual wheel in accordance with the selected mode. The result is a significant reduction in body movement as well as a better grip on the road.
For example: if ‘Sport’ mode is selected, the suspension is automatically set to a harder damper rating. If the quality of the track surface falls below a certain threshold, the system immediately changes to a softer rating within the ‘Sport’ setup range. When the quality of the tarmac improves once more, PASM automatically returns to the original, harder rating.
Need more information about PASM? Click this link: FAQ for PASM
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Thanks for the thoughts, I'm still waiting to find some Ferrari drivers in my area that will really put their cars to the test on the track, mostly they run parade laps which is a shame, especially in a Stradale...
Welcome and thanks for the read. I don't think I've read another thread on here that compares the cay to any ferrari.
One question- You say the Ferrari Bounces less than the Cayman yet I feel my cay with pasm is a nice ride for the size/weight etc... Are F-cars really that comfy? I don't know why but i have this idea that the ferrari would be quite bumpy.
PASM - Porsche Active Suspension Management
This active damping system offers continuous adjustment of individual damping forces based on current road conditions and driving style.
The driver can choose from two setup modes, ‘Normal’ and ‘Sport’, using a separate ‘damper’ button on the center console. ‘Normal’ mode is designed for general road driving and circuits with uneven tarmac. ‘Sport’ mode is intended for smoother track surfaces, where the harder settings help eliminate pitch and roll.
In either mode, PASM continuously evaluates the current conditions while automatically selecting the corresponding damper rates from the respective set of mapped values.
A range of sensors are used to monitor the movement of the body under acceleration, braking and cornering maneuvers, as well as on poor road surfaces. The PASM control unit then evaluates this data and modifies the damping force on each individual wheel in accordance with the selected mode. The result is a significant reduction in body movement as well as a better grip on the road.
For example: if ‘Sport’ mode is selected, the suspension is automatically set to a harder damper rating. If the quality of the track surface falls below a certain threshold, the system immediately changes to a softer rating within the ‘Sport’ setup range. When the quality of the tarmac improves once more, PASM automatically returns to the original, harder rating.
Need more information about PASM? Click this link: FAQ for PASM
Thank you very much for the comparison and your contribution is appreciated. One of the principal criticisms of the GEN I CS is the lack of a factory LSD. Have you noticed this in comparison to the Ferrari?
LSD - Limited Slip Differential
A limited slip differential (LSD) is a modified or derived type of differential gear arrangement that allows for some difference in rotational velocity of the output shafts, but does not allow the difference in speed to increase beyond a preset amount. In an automobile, such limited slip differentials are sometimes used in place of a standard differential, where they convey certain dynamic advantages, at the expense of greater complexity.
The main advantage of a limited slip differential is found by considering the case of a standard (or "open") differential where one wheel has no contact with the ground at all. In such a case, the contacting wheel will remain stationary, and the non-contacting wheel will rotate freely– the torque transmitted will be equal at both wheels, but will not exceed the threshold of torque needed to move the vehicle, thus the vehicle will remain stationary. In everyday use on typical roads, such a situation is very unlikely, and so a normal differential suffices. For more demanding use however, such as driving off-road, or for high performance vehicles, such a state of affairs is undesirable, and the LSD can be employed to deal with it. By limiting the velocity difference between a pair of driven wheels, useful torque can be transmitted as long as there is some friction available on at least one of the wheels.
To see the installation of a LSD style unit Click Here -> Article Forthcoming Stay Tuned
Nice reading. This is definitely a testament to how good this little Porsche really is. To even compare it to a car heralded by many as the best sports car available today, is pretty pretty good
I think that Porsche should also choose to show off the flat 6 instead of hiding it in there. It's definitely nothing to be ashamed of, even if it doesn't have the Ferrari's sound or "Je ne sais quoi"
When I read the title, I was thining, "Oh man, who in the world would compare these two cars?" Seeing that it's someone who owns both, I guess it's all good and I have to thank you for an interesting read.
Congratulations on two beautiful cars! I would be driving more and wrighting less.
I have never driven a Ferrari. I have seen plenty inside and out. The ones I have seen at the track, were driven by people I do not know, and/or not very hard. They look soft sprung since they leaned a good amount at the turns.
I share K-Man S' curiosity, I would love to see one driven hard by a good driver.
Ferraris interiors are like fine furniture, but they cost more. Their exteriors age very well. Porsche exteriors also age well. A 10 year old car still looks good, but I will give Ferrari the advantage here.
I am very happy with my three year old CS, I hope I will be happy with it several more years down the road.
Great review! A fellow showed up in an F430 at a recent AX. I'd heard he was an SCCA Solo champ at some level. Unfortunately a component of our timing system failed before the timed runs, so I don't have a good comparison to the 4 of us driving CSs. Hopefully he comes back...
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2007 Cayman S, Arctic Silver
Gone but not forgotten: 1980 911SC
PCA San Diego Region
Thanks for your intriguing write-up comparing the Cayman and Ferrari. As a long time Ferrari fan, I have read many BMW to Cayman, Corvette to Cayman.. even Lotus to Cayman stories and wondered why there were no Ferrari/Lamborghini/Aston Martin/Maserati to Cayman stories for the uninformed to reference to. Your report sounds realistic, unbiased and makes it understandable why Ferrari and Porsche are successful at building the cars that they do.
I have two questions for you:
1. What was the prime motivational factor for your purchase of the Cayman?
2. If you drive on a road course which will you bring?
What has your F430 ownership experience been like? My friend just replaced his 360's F1 pump for $3500 and they told him his engine mounts need replacing. You have to pay to play. His key stopped working while at a restaurant once, and they had to tow to a Ferrari dealer with the alarm blaring until the battery died.
Can you still expect the $15k a year in maintenance to "live the dream".
The F430 is one of the few cars that I actually make me tingle all over when I get close to it. :-)
The new Gallardo, too.
Damned Italians. LOL.
Here is former Cayman extraordinaire, Quickxotica in his 996 Carrera at the Ferrari and Friends day we attended.
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Cayman S - a portable amusement park
OK. I'm surprised at all the responses. I'll try to answer everyone.
K-Man S,
Not many Ferrari owners in Colorado track their cars although many are former racers and some track other cars. I'll admit, tracking a car that's worth 200K (at least it used to be!) is somewhat daunting when insurance will not cover it but I can't help myself. I have usually had other cars available for tracking and often use them.
Steeevo,
The only Ferrari I owned that had a fairly harsh ride was a 94 348 TB. The rest have been just fine as far as ride quality goes. I use the the sport mode in the 430 most of the time which is similar to PASM in sport. The 430 also has a race mode which stiffens things up more. It has five settings in all which control throttle response and how quickly the nannies intervene. They range from "ice" mode where power is severely limited and traction control intervenes very quickly to being able to turn everything off. Sport mode will allow the rear to step out. Race mode lets it go way out to the point of no return. I haven't tried turning it all off. Perhaps if I was on a track with tons of runoff and no other traffic.
lspain,
Tough to say on this until I track the CS. As I was explaining to Steeevo, the 430 has many modes. Perhaps a fully functioning LSD would make the CS quicker but dinosaurs like me might actually find modulating the throttle on my own more fun.
Kestrel (sparrow hawk?)
The engine is so ugly when dirty It does make more work.
Pistol Pete,
Driving around in a red Ferrari often feels like being in fishbowl. An issue that comes up is kids wanting to race. Street racing is considered bad form among Ferrari owners (for the most part). Part of Ferrari ownership is learnig to deal with comments and questions. Mosy owners feel a responsibilty to be patient with people and not act like a snobbish a******. We really are ambassadors for the marque and it's owners. Of course, there are a few who get indignant when people see the prancing horse and think it's a Mustang. I'm hoping the CS will be more of a stealth car.
Jaica,
Ferraris from the 70's and 80's had a lot of body roll. Starting with 348's, that was no longer the case. I also have a 89 328 GTB. It's a great car at 8/10ths and I love it but on a track it gets run over by more modern cars of all makes. The chassis layout dates to the 60's and the excessive suspension travel lets it down at the limit but it's a great fun car anyway.
Scwabe,
I definitely would not say boring. I would like to hear more from the flat six though. The CS definitely feels sporty whereas not all performance cars do.
Fonduesci,
It would be interesting to see AX times between the two by the same driver. It wouldn't surprise me of the CS came out ahead by a little. Smaller size and weight would be an advantage. But who knows what a pro's skills would produce?
Stevie,
1. Curiosity partly. I personally find a smaller, two seater, mid engine design more appealing than a 2+ with rear motor.
2. For track events, it depends a little on the course. I have a 94 Celica race car I use on tight circuits. It has no power but is fun and I don't have to worry about offs. I've tracked the 430 a number of times but it is now out of warranty and tires and brakes are expensive. It is way more car than I have the skill to really exploit, especially the power, so an equally good handling, but less powerful car may be a better choice for me. That's where I expect the Cayman to come in not to mention a good everyday sportscar.
DaveN007,
My car was delivered 8/05. The only thing I've had done was replace a rear main seal under warranty. I've been told this is very rare and since it has never turned up on Ferrari forums, I believe it. Annual service averages 750. 430's have timing chains instead of belts which eliminates a big expense compared to earlier models. I've been on Ferrarichat for many years and it seems that more than half the issues with modern models have to do with the F1 systems. They've been making this system in road cars for 12 years and charge a lot for it but it still has issues. Some models have a lot of issues and those that require the engine to come out to do timing belts are expensive to maintain. These are Boxers, TR's, 348's and 355's. Unfortunately 355's have many issues as well and this is reflected in the value. None cost anywhere near 15K/year to maintain. I'd be a non owner if that were the case.
PS: I forgot to mention fit and finish. The Porsche wins this easily.
Dave
PASM - Porsche Active Suspension Management
This active damping system offers continuous adjustment of individual damping forces based on current road conditions and driving style.
The driver can choose from two setup modes, ‘Normal’ and ‘Sport’, using a separate ‘damper’ button on the center console. ‘Normal’ mode is designed for general road driving and circuits with uneven tarmac. ‘Sport’ mode is intended for smoother track surfaces, where the harder settings help eliminate pitch and roll.
In either mode, PASM continuously evaluates the current conditions while automatically selecting the corresponding damper rates from the respective set of mapped values.
A range of sensors are used to monitor the movement of the body under acceleration, braking and cornering maneuvers, as well as on poor road surfaces. The PASM control unit then evaluates this data and modifies the damping force on each individual wheel in accordance with the selected mode. The result is a significant reduction in body movement as well as a better grip on the road.
For example: if ‘Sport’ mode is selected, the suspension is automatically set to a harder damper rating. If the quality of the track surface falls below a certain threshold, the system immediately changes to a softer rating within the ‘Sport’ setup range. When the quality of the tarmac improves once more, PASM automatically returns to the original, harder rating.
Need more information about PASM? Click this link: FAQ for PASM
LSD - Limited Slip Differential
A limited slip differential (LSD) is a modified or derived type of differential gear arrangement that allows for some difference in rotational velocity of the output shafts, but does not allow the difference in speed to increase beyond a preset amount. In an automobile, such limited slip differentials are sometimes used in place of a standard differential, where they convey certain dynamic advantages, at the expense of greater complexity.
The main advantage of a limited slip differential is found by considering the case of a standard (or "open") differential where one wheel has no contact with the ground at all. In such a case, the contacting wheel will remain stationary, and the non-contacting wheel will rotate freely– the torque transmitted will be equal at both wheels, but will not exceed the threshold of torque needed to move the vehicle, thus the vehicle will remain stationary. In everyday use on typical roads, such a situation is very unlikely, and so a normal differential suffices. For more demanding use however, such as driving off-road, or for high performance vehicles, such a state of affairs is undesirable, and the LSD can be employed to deal with it. By limiting the velocity difference between a pair of driven wheels, useful torque can be transmitted as long as there is some friction available on at least one of the wheels.
To see the installation of a LSD style unit Click Here -> Article Forthcoming Stay Tuned
Folks, has the CS stereo improved since 2006? My 2006 stereo is **** also... Can't imagine how any car's stereo, let along Ferrari's, be even more ****...
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