Planet 9

Axis-CG · #**141** 06-29-2009, 09:29 PM

Originally Posted by bpaulsen

For what it's worth, I think we had CS's running 2:09's at the club race (it may have been 2:08's). I was running a 2:13 in an '01 Boxster S. From my video review, I was making lots of mistakes during that run, so I think a 2:10 is possible in the car.

You are right. This is the video of some of my 2:09 laps (2nd lap in vid), and if hadn't been that hot, 2:08s are clearly doable. That time is the PCA H Stock class record for VIR:

VIR PCA H Stock Cayman S - 2:09 on Vimeo

We need more Caymans in H Stock! Come and play!

FT · #**142** 07-01-2009, 07:36 PM

what full-fluid weight are you able to get to with H-stock prep? You guys are reaching much higher speeds than I am able to on the straights and maintain higher apex speeds in corners. Some of it due to my lack of driving skills of course, but I wonder if weight is also playing a role.

My best VIR full lap is 2:23 in showroom stock form with R888s. I have seen others do 2:15-16 in same configuraiton, but I cannot imagine getting below those times with my driving.

Thanks,

**jcriggs** · #**143** 07-01-2009, 08:11 PM

Originally Posted by FT

...You guys are reaching much higher speeds than I am able to on the straights and maintain higher apex speeds in corners...

I noticed the much higher speeds too. I can understand the better corner speed given the better skills, but my foot is on the floor on the straights too. Do a few pounds make that much difference?

FT · #**144** 07-01-2009, 09:07 PM

Originally Posted by jcriggs

I noticed the much higher speeds too. I can understand the better corner speed given the better skills, but my foot is on the floor on the straights too. Do a few pounds make that much difference?

I am not quite sure frankly how much of a difference weight might have on straight line speed.

I took a look at my log files comparing it to CG's data on the video, and it is interesting:

T1 --> apex speed, CG is 2 mph faster
T3 --> apex, CG is +8 mph
T4 --> entry, CG +9 mph
T5 thourgh 6 --> CG is +9 mph
Entry to uphill esses --> CG +17 mph
Exit off uphill esses --> CG +2 mph
Entry to South Bend --> CG +8 mph
Oak Tree Apex --> CG +2 mph
Max speed back straight --> CG +12 mph
Now, here comes the most drastic part:
Apex on T14a --> CG +0.5 mph
Apex on T15 --> CG +9 mph
Entry to Hog Pen (T16) --> CG +10 mph
Apex on T17 --> CG +2 mph
Apex on T17a --> CG +11 mph
Exit of T17a to front straight --> CG +13 mph

For reference of corner numbers VIR map is attached.

So, what is interesting is that our corner speeds are not too drastically different on most corners (but it is apparent, I should be able to take T3 5 mph faster

); not knowing the which tires CG uses, may just be explained with 150-200 lbs weight difference alone. I don't think any weight difference below 150 lbs would be make any noticeable difference, but I may be wrong. If it is not weight, then it is certainly better driving. But, CG gains speed so much faster and effortlessly than I can, it is really great to see the CS perform this well in H-stock form.

Good driving CG,

**jcriggs** · #**145** 07-02-2009, 10:47 AM

Originally Posted by FT

...I took a look at my log files comparing it to CG's data...

Like that new toy of your's FT?

What I found interesting:

Entry to uphill esses --> CG +17 mph -- If I am over 105 on the entry it feels like the car is going to float off the track! Must be a case of bigger stones for CG.

Max speed back straight --> CG +12 mph -- CG is touching 140+! Weight difference?

The exit speed on the front straight is amazing too.

Great driving CG!

FT · #**146** 07-02-2009, 12:03 PM

Yes, I am looking at the G2X data I captured when I was at VIR in June, so my data is very recent.

I agree with you on the entry to uphill esses; I was able to enter at around 105-107, but had to ease off the throttle a little and ended up around 97-99 at the top. An instructor showed me a slightly different line on entry and the first right-hander for better setup for the last lef-hander. But still, I cannot imagine entering that section beyond 110 at this time.

Couple screen shots from the Data Link software:

Axis-CG · #**147** 07-02-2009, 01:43 PM

Originally Posted by FT

what full-fluid weight are you able to get to with H-stock prep? You guys are reaching much higher speeds than I am able to on the straights and maintain higher apex speeds in corners. Some of it due to my lack of driving skills of course, but I wonder if weight is also playing a role.

My best VIR full lap is 2:23 in showroom stock form with R888s. I have seen others do 2:15-16 in same configuraiton, but I cannot imagine getting below those times with my driving.

Thanks,

My car + 195lbs driver (me) and empty tank weighed 3175lbs las weekend, so more like 3200#s with average fuel load.

The higher end of straight speed is mostly due to the higher speed coming out of the corners. Weight is not a big factor on end of straight high speed (Wind is the main resistance so HP is king, and we are running a stock engine).
The other factor (for higher speed) is braking later (more acceleration time/distance).

FT · #**148** 07-03-2009, 10:41 AM

Me and the car weight 3325 lbs will full tank, that's about 150 lbs difference, which is inconsequential IMO.

Without knowing your average speed in corners I cannot tell your momentum through the corners compared to mine. I can calculate for couple of corners may be.

Either way, good driving CG.

Axis-CG · #**149** 07-03-2009, 05:21 PM

Originally Posted by FT

Me and the car weight 3325 lbs will full tank, that's about 150 lbs difference, which is inconsequential IMO.

Without knowing your average speed in corners I cannot tell your momentum through the corners compared to mine. I can calculate for couple of corners may be.

Either way, good driving CG.

Thanks.
I think the other most relevant factor than apex speed is at which point you are really using 100% throttle. The earlier the better obviously, and that's what makes a big difference on end of straight speed.

The throttle position sensor has been the biggest upgrade in the AIM telemetry I have in the Cayman vs. the Traqmate system I use for my other Street/Track cars.

BTW, if you think I'm fast going into the esses, you have to see the Telemetry from the Pros. They all go into the 5th gear and close to 130mph at 100% throttle through the first left hander. I'm a big sissy redlinning 4th gear. That was the case with Eric Lux (Farnbacher Pro Grand-AM, ALMS, Nascar) driving my Cayman, and back in 2007 with the Lotus factory driver driving my Exige S. Just in that section (esses), that extra speed accounted for 7-8/10ths of a second out the 1 second faster over the whole lap.

It's good to see that people are using telemetry data. It really helps a lot (I'm a data freak) to improve your driving and specially if you can overlay it with that of a faster driver. However, for the faster corners there's a lot more needed than analysis and setup. As Eric Lux put it to me when I said there's no f#$%ng way I'm trying 5th gear full throttle going in to the esses: "... well it is logical, I'm 21, it's not your job and you have 3 kids!..."

FT · #**150** 07-03-2009, 09:11 PM

Nice story CG

I am sure that was a unique experience.

I have RacePak G2X, just put it in before this recent VIR event. I used data analysis frequently with my past cars, but only for chassis setup as that was my job, but now for the first time, I am using it for improving my driving. And, it is a very different perspective.

Thankfully, I have both RPM and TPS connected, so I am getting the data. There was one bad suprise as looked at my data: how few seconds I was on full throttle. Once I correct that issue, which lowered my lap times about 1.5 to 2 secs, I focused on corner entry and exit data, which gained me about 1 to 1.5 seconds. The one good news is that I am, now, on full throttle before the apex on most corners at VIR, so I am accelerating as much as traction will allow me. But of course, I am loosing some of that power to not having an LSD, but I can live with that for now.

FT · #**151** 07-05-2009, 05:07 PM

Btw, CG, how are you obtaining brake pressure readings? Is there a ECU pin for that or have you installed a sensor for it?

Thanks,

Axis-CG · #**152** 07-06-2009, 09:35 AM

Originally Posted by FT

Btw, CG, how are you obtaining brake pressure readings? Is there a ECU pin for that or have you installed a sensor for it?

Thanks,

We installed a sensor for it.
Here is another lap with Telemetry at Watkins Glen. Got down to 2:10.1 for an "official" lap, but the pace was for 2:09s (rolling lap with different start finish) and a high 2:08 is certainly doable.

Porsche Cayman S - Watkins Glen on Vimeo

FT · #**153** 07-06-2009, 02:41 PM

Thanks CG for all the information.

craignyc · #**154** 07-26-2009, 03:39 PM

don't forget CG has motons, when I had my cayman with RA1s at VIR I ran a 2.18 with stock PASM suspension, now of course CG is a much better driver than me, but suspension and sway bars that are tuned for the track make a world of difference. So a little advice, don't try entering corners at the same speed as CG unless you have a car setup to handle those kind of G's.

FT · #**155** 07-27-2009, 10:43 PM

I really don't have intention on mimicing his line or speed

I don't think that is advisable at any point for me LOL.
I assumed that since it is H-stock compliant car, suspension and A/R was stock, but I am not actually familiar with the PCA rule book and did not check. Motons (+appropriate spring set) and A/R bars would certainly help, but with my driving I still cannot see myself getting to CG's level in the short term.

If I can do 2:15 to 2:18 range with what I have right now, I will be very happy. I am about 6-8 seconds away from that and I really need to analyze my data to see improvement areas. I'll be at VIR in September, objective is to reach 2:20 with new tires. We'll see...

scwaters · #**156** 08-03-2009, 02:19 PM

track____lap time____name_____tires_______date________event type
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Glen 2:29 scwaters Conti Street 8-1-09 DE

Bone Stock 2.7 with OEM Continentals, 280 lb. driver plus instructor

Axis-CG · #**157** 08-04-2009, 02:40 PM

From last weekend race at Mosport (Won both Sprint races in class and overall! but car broke down before the Enduro...)

1:33.355

YouTube - MOSPORT PCA Club Race - Qualifying H Stock Cayman S

umwolverine · #**158** 08-05-2009, 06:02 AM

Putnam Park _ 1:22.9_umwolverine_Nitto NT-01's_6-20-09_DE

Second time on the track with the car - still learning how to drive again after tracking my M5 for the last two years!

**K-Man S** · #**159** 08-05-2009, 08:27 AM

Autobahn country club, I think they call it the north loop, in the stock 2009 PDK car I was running around 1:14, in the Cayman Interseries race car I was running around 1:08, but I wasn't pushing either car to the limit and it was my first time on that track. Use these for reference purposes only.

ToddPhilly · #**160** 08-05-2009, 09:57 AM

Originally Posted by scwaters

track____lap time____name_____tires_______date________event type
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Glen 2:29 scwaters Conti Street 8-1-09 DE

Bone Stock 2.7 with OEM Continentals, 280 lb. driver plus instructor

That's a great time for a stock Cayman! You were definitely moving out there!

Glen 2:26 Todd Michelin PS2 8-1-09 DE

Stock Cayman S with Hawk HT-10 Pads.