Planet-9 > 987 Discussion Group (Cayman/Boxster) > Cayman and Boxster Competition » Going Auto-X for the first time with Cayman


Cayman and Boxster Competition Auto Cross, Club Racing, DE, this is the place to discuss the 987 on the track

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  #1  
Old 03-11-2009, 06:10 AM
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Going Auto-X for the first time with Cayman

So I'm going for my first auto-x with the cayman in a couple of weeks and I need some tips from you guys who have done it several times. This won't be my first auto-x, but my first with the cayman non-S.

I've done several with an e90 330i (255hp) and a Z4 (215hp), but I have no idea if I should go with "sport" only or PSM off only or Sport and PSM off. I usually drove the 330i and z4 with DSC all off, which gave me control over the car without it bogging down on me when I step on the gas. With the cayman, I have no idea if the "sport" button will give me this, or if I should turn off PSM. What do you folks think? I'm not after a blinding start from the line, but what I want is traction control not interfering but will somehow save me in case I really get in trouble. Is there such a thing?
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Old 03-11-2009, 06:59 AM
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Re: Going Auto-X for the first time with Cayman

You'll have to turn PSM off or you will find it extremely intrusive... I know. The first AX I ran, I didn't turn if off (forgot to the entire day!), and couldn't figure out what all the shuttering and engine cut-out were about on tight turns.

I don't have Sport Chrono, so I can't really comment [with authority], but as I understand it, Sport Chrono enhances throttle response when it's turned on. Sounds like something I'd want on an AX course.
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Old 03-11-2009, 07:14 AM
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Re: Going Auto-X for the first time with Cayman

I'm hoping to get out to a couple Auto-X's this year, hasn't happened yet due to an INSANE travel schedule. You may want to experiment a bit. My understanding is that in "Sport" mode, the PSM won't be as intrusive. Should allow some over-steer before cutting power.

You'll probably like the throttle response with sport mode on, try it with PSM on and off. Let me know your thoughts after the AX...
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Old 03-11-2009, 08:11 AM
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Re: Going Auto-X for the first time with Cayman

Not being an auto-x participant, I probably should not respond, but I do have years of track experience, with the last year in the Cayman. IMO, you will need to turn off PSM. Unfortunately, even then it is not totally off, and on a tight auto-x course, I expect you will feel it engage on occasion. On a road course, I find it totally unobtrusive and, in fact, it is rarely an issue when on, if the driving input is sufficiently smooth. Regarding SC sport mode, it is personal preference. I don't like it, because it makes throttle modulation a bit more difficult to do smoothly. Again, maybe not an issue in auto-x, but when trying to keep the car balanced at the limit in a high speed turn, I prefer the normal throttle response timing.
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Old 03-11-2009, 08:53 AM
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Re: Going Auto-X for the first time with Cayman

PSM off for sure.

SC mode... your choice. I personally do not like the throttle map when it is on.

Back to PSM... be aware that if you turn the car off between runs, it will re-engage.

My PCA region usually allows us to take all our runs back to back, thus the car stays on. But in my 1st AX in the Croc, I stalled it approaching the starting line, and discovered the hard way in the middle of a slalom that PSM was back on the job!

Brian
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Old 03-11-2009, 10:14 AM
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Re: Going Auto-X for the first time with Cayman

Originally Posted by Kestrel View Post
You'll have to turn PSM off or you will find it extremely intrusive... I know. The first AX I ran, I didn't turn if off (forgot to the entire day!), and couldn't figure out what all the shuttering and engine cut-out were about on tight turns.

I don't have Sport Chrono, so I can't really comment [with authority], but as I understand it, Sport Chrono enhances throttle response when it's turned on. Sounds like something I'd want on an AX course.

This exact same thing happened to me too last July (my 1st AX since 1968 !) ... forgot tho turn off PSM... I had the worst times of everyone in our group.

I have a 100 page powerpoint presentation (3+ Meg file) about designing AX courses I can send you if you send me your email address... you'll learn a lot from reading this. bobfrostholm "at" gmail.com

Cheers

Bob
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Old 03-11-2009, 10:41 AM
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+1.

I never run PSM on an AutoX course. According to the official Porsche Driving Instructors, if you're driving the car correctly, PSM shouldn't interfere on a road course. However, I'm a little "enthusiastic" sometimes and I do standing start "Circuit Crosses" on occasion, so PSM gets shut off regardless. Honestly, I don't see how it's going to "save you" on an AutoX course to leave it on. Generally if you're in that much trouble, you're gonna be coning it pretty hard anyway.
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Old 03-11-2009, 03:00 PM
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Re: Going Auto-X for the first time with Cayman

I agree that PSM is best left off for AX unless the course is wet/slippery - in which case it might actually benefit you. I did an AX in the rain last year, and my times with PSM on were 1-2 sec faster than the runs I did with it off.

Of course, being in California you probably don't have to worry about the rain . . .
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Old 03-11-2009, 04:24 PM
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Re: Going Auto-X for the first time with Cayman

Thanks to everyone who replied!

Originally Posted by Krazed1 View Post
You'll probably like the throttle response with sport mode on, try it with PSM on and off. Let me know your thoughts after the AX...
Will certainly do after the AX. I'll probably try the SC button once, but I'll try to figure out the PSM on the car first.

Originally Posted by Cold Croc View Post
I have a 100 page powerpoint presentation (3+ Meg file) about designing AX courses I can send you if you send me your email address... you'll learn a lot from reading this. bobfrostholm "at" gmail.com

Cheers

Bob
Email sent!

Originally Posted by AlexMcNabb View Post
I never run PSM on an AutoX course. According to the official Porsche Driving Instructors, if you're driving the car correctly, PSM shouldn't interfere on a road course. However, I'm a little "enthusiastic" sometimes and I do standing start "Circuit Crosses" on occasion, so PSM gets shut off regardless. Honestly, I don't see how it's going to "save you" on an AutoX course to leave it on. Generally if you're in that much trouble, you're gonna be coning it pretty hard anyway.
That would be my problem, I haven't signed up with the local PCA group here in San Diego, so I would be running with the local BMWCCA. However, the chief instructor drives around in a 996 GT3, so I'll probably ask him a few questions.

Originally Posted by KS-CS View Post
Of course, being in California you probably don't have to worry about the rain . . .
lol, I have to try autocrossing in the rain, heard it's supposed to be twice the fun.
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Old 03-11-2009, 04:27 PM
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Re: Going Auto-X for the first time with Cayman

Originally Posted by Kestrel View Post
You'll have to turn PSM off or you will find it extremely intrusive... I know. The first AX I ran, I didn't turn if off (forgot to the entire day!), and couldn't figure out what all the shuttering and engine cut-out were about on tight turns.

I don't have Sport Chrono, so I can't really comment [with authority], but as I understand it, Sport Chrono enhances throttle response when it's turned on. Sounds like something I'd want on an AX course.
From what I've read something that I should look out for is the "hard rev limiter" when using the SC button. I usually just ride the rev limiter when the course is twisty/small.
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Old 03-11-2009, 04:30 PM
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Re: Going Auto-X for the first time with Cayman

Originally Posted by elh0102 View Post
Not being an auto-x participant, I probably should not respond, but I do have years of track experience, with the last year in the Cayman. IMO, you will need to turn off PSM. Unfortunately, even then it is not totally off, and on a tight auto-x course, I expect you will feel it engage on occasion. On a road course, I find it totally unobtrusive and, in fact, it is rarely an issue when on, if the driving input is sufficiently smooth. Regarding SC sport mode, it is personal preference. I don't like it, because it makes throttle modulation a bit more difficult to do smoothly. Again, maybe not an issue in auto-x, but when trying to keep the car balanced at the limit in a high speed turn, I prefer the normal throttle response timing.
Originally Posted by BGLeduc View Post
PSM off for sure.

SC mode... your choice. I personally do not like the throttle map when it is on.

Back to PSM... be aware that if you turn the car off between runs, it will re-engage.

My PCA region usually allows us to take all our runs back to back, thus the car stays on. But in my 1st AX in the Croc, I stalled it approaching the starting line, and discovered the hard way in the middle of a slalom that PSM was back on the job!

Brian
Thanks for the tip! I do hope I don't stall it on the starting line, I get flustered easily, especially when there's a queue behind me.

I also found that the throttle is a bit sensitive with SC mode, might unbalance the car during AX.
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Old 03-11-2009, 05:46 PM
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Re: Going Auto-X for the first time with Cayman

[quote=Oofie;343233]Thanks for the tip! I do hope I don't stall it on the starting line, I get flustered easily, especially when there's a queue behind me.
quote]

Don't know how it works with your group, but here with the Loma Prieta Region of PCA, our AX courses all have about 100-200 feet to get rolling before crossing the start line...no pressure to think about stalls...

Cheers
Bob
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1970-1972 ---- 1964 356C - Rust Bucket
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1976-1977 ---- 1973 911T - Was I crazy?
1977-2007 ---- 1963 356SC 306K mi
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Old 03-13-2009, 10:42 AM
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Re: Going Auto-X for the first time with Cayman

Our Peachstate PCA autocrosses are generally fast set ups, and usually about 1 minute runs in a CS, with one lot we use running into the 70 second range. And last year, we had a fairly consistent course set up for 4 of the 6 autoXes so you didn't have to totally learn the course from scratch each time.

Over the last 2 years, I have yet to run a faster time in an event with PSM off than PSM on. I always do my first run PSM on, and usually the 2nd which gives you some idea of where the car is really at the limit while not ruining your run with a spin. Then, I figure out where I am to my competition, both in class and others I measure myself against, and decide my strategy for the next 2-4 runs; where am I loosing time, what are the track conditions, as well as what was I feeling with PSM and am I going to turn it off.

Given the course layouts, PSM usually intrudes when coming off a tight corner when you are dealing with severe understeer, or in higher speed severe transitions (not really a slalom but hard l/r or r/l higher speed turns) with low grip when the back end may come around. In my experience, I seem to loose no more time with a PSM intervention then I do with pulling the car back under me and trying to get back on line, so it net's out to little difference in time, but a smoother overall run.

On high speed sweepers, the car is very easy to drive with the throttle helping you steer, and PSM on / off seems not to be an issue.

In our last autox which was very cold (30s) on a course that seemed to have a lot of sand / small gravel, and generally very low grip, on a very long course, my times PSM on and off were almost identical 2 runs each way.

AutoXing in the wet, is a blast, and a wet course that is drying is even more fun!!!!

On tight slow courses, it may be entirely different. Different driving styles it may be different. Change it up, and see what happens

My 2 cents..........

In any case, have fun with it!!!

And, you'll have more fun autoxing a Cayman than you ever did with your BMWs. I had a Dinan 330ci, with a few other mods, and really never had fun autoxing it. The first time I had the CS out, I was going through a very fast slalom thinking the BMW would be pushing like a pig at this point, and tipped in some more throttle on the CS and hung on. And, BMWs DSC is substantially more intrusive than PSM; you couldn't even think about autoXing with DSC on. Same on the track as well.
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Last edited by In2Esses; 03-13-2009 at 10:52 AM.
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  #14  
Old 03-13-2009, 03:15 PM
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Re: Going Auto-X for the first time with Cayman

Sorry, I must have not been clear, as people seem to think I was suggesting leaving PSM on was something I do all the time:
  • Turn off PSM
Enjoy!
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