Planet 9

Apollo · #1 03-28-2009, 10:14 PM

At an event today Will (PCA National Cayman tech chair) told us that he uses KFP Gold on Caymans of his clients who street/AX heavy. He said he preferred them over Hawks (he rates KFP as #1, Hawks as #2, and Pagids as #3).
I did some search on the web and I can't find those pads anywhere for Caymans.
Anyone know a source?

**K-Man S** · #2 03-29-2009, 12:51 AM

I don't know if I would buy that advice, I would not rate Hawks over Pagids, at least not in my direct experience on my Cayman, the Pagids did a MUCH better job than the Hawk pads did, but of course there are different versions of each pad, if he doesn't tell you which versions he is talking about it for each brand then the advice is pretty much worthless. Someone needs to bring Will up to speed...

I might add that I just google'd "KFP Gold" and this topic thread was the 3rd highest result and you just asked the question a couple of hours ago.

I checked one of the sites that sells those pads and they were all for 924, 944, 968, no Cayman application listed although they did have Pagids. Looks like KFP's come in 3 colors, red, blue and gold, found a site with some specs for each, not sure how the gold specs compare to any particular hawk or pagid pad.

Apollo · #3 03-29-2009, 10:53 AM

I got Will's e-mail. I will fire it off to him with question re. source.
At the event there were enough 911 and 924, 964, and etc. guys and gals singing praises to KFP over Pagid.

**K-Man S** · #4 03-29-2009, 12:34 PM

Could it be that some of those older cars were under-braked and don't hold up as well at the track as the new generation Cayman/997 brakes? There are just too many variables here to even consider taking a blanket statement that pad X is better than pad Y without a lot more information. Your intended purpose/use will also dictate what sort of pad you could/should consider. For example a pad that grips very well until it gets hot might be ideal for autox where it never gets that hot, vs. the same pad might go to mush after 3 laps in a DE where you want a pad that operates with maximum grip at a higher temperature. No one pad is perfect for all situations and precious few here would even have access to the equipment needed to measure the performance envelope of a pad in action which would be the only way to truly determine which pad would be "best" for which situation.

Apollo · #5 03-29-2009, 12:43 PM

Ken, I hear you. You are absolutely right. Will did make a statement that pad choice is one of those things where he has to spend some time with a client looking at where they take their cars, what has been their feedback, and etc. etc. etc.
I am talking purely from situation I presented to him - 4-5K miles each year of 50/50 highway/street and 20+ AX events on Cayman S with PS2s. Apparently it is very common scenario and his favorite solution where KFPs. PRICE had a lot to do with it too, since he said they were almost half the price of Pagids.

Ron Mann who is absolutely fantastic AXer and DEer (he is also PCA-NER AX chair) shared his experience with different Pagids and they were also not as highly rated in his eyes.

That all said, my point for this thread is to find out more about KFPs. Season hasn't even started yet and I have spent $$$ for maintenance on both cars. I need to watch my budget this year, considering the economy.

**K-Man S** · #6 03-29-2009, 03:31 PM

Have you tried our sponsor Rennstore to see if they can get these pads?

crocdoc · #7 03-29-2009, 03:37 PM

I find Pagid Orange pads to be an excellent, though pricey, choice for the track. I think the Pagids are better than the Hawk blues, but they really squeal on the street and are not recommended for road use. They need to be warmed up to work properly. I haven't tried KFP's. I just put a new set of Pagid's on a few minutes ago for my trip to VIR on Thursday with our PCA club, Wilderness Trail.

crocdoc · #8 03-29-2009, 03:41 PM

I actually bought the Pagid pads from Rennstore. He has the best prices and he gives you a can of SuperBlue brake fluid if you buy two sets (ie. front and rear). Good service.

Mike_in OH · #9 03-30-2009, 09:45 AM

Apollo:
I've tried these on our 987 base model and they are indeed a very good pad;low fade on a heavy braking track, good modulation and wore well. You could get away with them driving on the street. Most of the instructors in our club use these pads exclusively. It doesn't hurt that they are made locally in
Canton, OH

Sizes are another matter; attached below is a link to a website with posted applications:

Pad List

You'll notice no mention of the 987 sizes. I could not find a size for the rear 987 brake.

You might want to cal the factory direct--they are very helpful or a local Porsche shop may have a suggestion. The factory said they would make a set for my rear if I sent in a core OE set to use as a pattern.

Good luck with it.

KFP Magnum Brakes--
Kfp Magnum Pads
2463 Columbus Rd Ne
Canton, OH 44705
(330) 453-9757

Steinels:
Porsche Specialists in Ohio | Steinel's Autowerks

Mike_in OH · #10 03-30-2009, 10:17 AM

Here's a link to their application guide; not easy to find.

IIRC, the CS has the same brakes as the 997 or Boxster S?

Attached is a diagram on the pad size; you might want to talk to the factory people on this. The last time I talked about 987 pad sizes they said they were working on it.
Since the 987 has been out for nearly 4 years, you'd think they'd be farther along on getting the applications right, especially since the CS is a car used for what they make--track pads!

PadSelector

Mike_in OH · #11 03-30-2009, 12:05 PM

if you bring up the closest comparable car on the application chart--the 2006 Boxster S--it has a part # of 991 on the front.

The drawings show the pad 7.5" long vs. 4.8" long on the 986 S. Uhh, something wrong there--I don't think the 987S front brakes are that much different from the 986S.

I'm guessing wrong part number; they need to straighten that out..

**Craig@Rennstore.com** · #12 03-31-2009, 06:15 PM

Fact:
Do folks know the Hawk Blue propensity for corrosion/huge rotor wear?
Even the rep there acknowledged it.

You really ought to have a proper track pad, and the toughest one out there would be the Pagid Yellow - LONG lasting, does it all on the track, hard core pad that most run in ALMS.

This guy likes them:

The Oranges are less noise and less cost and made for less strenuous use.

KFP, well okey dokey smokey on that advice .

Apollo · #13 03-31-2009, 06:27 PM

Craig, thanks for your input... but we are talking about KFP here. Pagids are overpriced and not exactly top choice for streetable AX setups.

ALMS is all nice an dandy, but those are race cars with a single purpose.
For those of us here in real world, paying for consumable out of our pockets and running cars to work and racing on weekends, what ALMS cars use is irrelevant.

**Craig@Rennstore.com** · #14 03-31-2009, 06:36 PM

Yeah I know we are talking about KFP here.
"Overpriced" is more a subjective judgement than an assessment, however.

For a "streetable AX setup" you ought to bag the whole idea of ANY aftermerket pad and 100% stay with stock.
I'm not gonna feed you a line of bull and tell you otherwise.

Jim Michaels · #15 03-31-2009, 09:21 PM

I agree with Craig about using OEM pads for autocross. I've tried my track pads at AX quite a few times, but prefer OEM pads. Track pads need to get hot before they can slow the car quicker than OEM pads. I've also tried Hawk SP+ pads (very dusty) and went back to OEM for AX. Some street/AX pads may indeed be better, but I'm done experimenting.

You really don't want to slow down in AX anyway; just change directions.

Apollo · #16 03-31-2009, 09:42 PM

Originally Posted by Jim Michaels

You really don't want to slow down in AX anyway; just change directions.

We are lucky here in MA, we have Devens AFB with huge runways and no parking lot poles

So Ron Mann and Rob MacAlpine tend to create courses that get you almost all the way to the limiter, by the time you get "happy", they slap you down with a surprise. I have had fade once or twice.

**K-Man S** · #17 03-31-2009, 09:50 PM

Apollo,
There is absolutely no way you are getting brake fade on an autox course without something being wrong with your brakes. Porsche brakes are designed to take a hammering, repeatedly, without fading. An autox will never reach that point, again unless you have something wrong with your brakes or what you thought was fade was in fact something else...

Apollo · #18 03-31-2009, 10:01 PM

Yep... getting that examined too. ...but again, I have only two season and probably under 30AXs behind my belt, I could be misinterpreting feedback from the car. Still waiting for Will to get back to me.

Jim Michaels · #19 03-31-2009, 10:04 PM

Apollo: Yes, you're very lucky to have Devens as your AX venue. That's where I did my Army Security Agency training in 1961-62. Also did other kinds of training at The Little Club in Ayer.

Apollo · #20 03-31-2009, 10:07 PM

Every year some locals try to shut us down... and every year we bring cold hard cash into local businesses ... and somehow they change their mind when they are reminded of that