I had my first DE last weekend and am now hooked! I took my DD 2009 MB C63 AMG and it performed very well for a sedan. I am now ready to get a car more track friendly. For now, my plan is to stick with DE and have no intention of racing.
I've had 2 Pcars and want a Pcar for the track. I also know I want mid engine and now am trying to determine whether I should get a Boxster S or a Cayman S. The Boxster would be more fun as a weekend car but my concern has to do with safety at the track. I know many people track their Boxsters. It seems having the solid roof is safer and it seems that the first mods many people say to start are the safety mods ie seats, harness etc.
My point is how often have you seen/heard of cars rolling over at the track? Besides head injuries someone mentioned the metal bars in the convertible top in a rollover are also potentially lethal.
Since I am completely new to DE, I plan on using the car stock w/o suspension, brake or other mods. I'd like to get much better at consistancy and for awhile using the car bone stock seems the way to go.
You cannot go wrong with either car. The mid engine layout make these very trackable cars without mods, such as seats/harnesses, etc. That being said, I have started down that slippery slope with my Cayman S (roll bar, GT3 seats, harnesses and H&R springs). To be honest, I sold my wife on these mods for "safety", however I have been to a dozen or more track events since owning my car and have not seen anyone roll...a few accidents but nothing approaching a "holy S$*#W%" moment.
I would agree with DocCroc...to a point. I've had a couple of holy $chnikee moments but only from getting a little loose near the wall (we have a very tight little track in St. Louis). But I would certainly recommend either car as a terrific track car. Personally, the hard top brings alot of peace of mind and it is without question safer (not a knock against the Boxster). Plus the extra rigidity will serve you well.
BTW don't sell brake mods short. For minimal investment, track pads will improve performance and last ALOT longer. Believe it or not - they're actually easy and fun to change!
Good luck and keep us posted. See you at the track!
I have seen a few accidents at the track, never a rolled car. I seen a totaled 911 Gt3 Rs two weeks ago, they walked away from the accident, a few half way serious ones, including a boxster. I would say inexeperience was the biggest factor in most accidents, even though I would say it could happen to anyone.
If the focus of your question is running DEs, get a Cayman. There's no question the hardtop offers greater protection. Although roll overs are extremely rare (I've seen a few in 10 years), some tracks, some PCA Regions and the National BMWCCA and ACNA prohibit convertibles without properly installed rollbars/cages, seats and harnesses. Most PCA Regions will require a Boxster driver to pass the "broomstick test" which is unlikely if you're tall. Last, there are instructors who will not instruct in a convertible.
Why place limits on venues, clubs and enjoyment from the outset?
I enjoy driving my Boxster every day and I also do DEs in it. A Cayman is a better DE car due to it being a hardtop and has a stiffer body for the corners.
As far as a Boxster on the track, it is exempt from the Broom Stick test. I have never had any concern from any instructor about riding in a converible, they just marvel at how well my Boxster performs.
For enjoyment, I'll stick with my Boxster. For a dedicated DE car, I'd go with a Cayman.
That would be a tough choice if you are the type that enjoys driving with the top down (either as a week-ender or on the track) - personally I like the added security of the Cayman roof, but that's me. The chance of rolling a Boxster in a DE scenario is pretty small, but not zero - everyone has their own level of risk tolerance, so it's hard to advise someone else in that regard.
I saw my first DE/track day roll-over just 2 months ago when a Chevy Cobalt SS did a slow roll-over right in front of me (spun on a wet track and hooked a front wheel as he went off the track) - so it can happen.
If you are considering a 986 Boxster, Brey-Krause does make a roll bar extension which marginally increases your protection, but I don't think there is anything similar for a 987.
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2006 Cayman S Tiptronic (Year-round Daily Driver & Part-time Track Toy)
Mods: SRP, DREAM-1, VentureShield, Xpel Headlamp shields, 35% Tint, MotorDrive Front Mesh Grills, Bumperplugs..
Track Prep: Pagid Yellows, Champion RS98s/NT05s, Deka ETX14 Battery, CG-Lock, Extinguisher, Rennline towhook, BBI Harness/Rollbar
As far as a Boxster on the track, it is exempt from the Broom Stick test. I have never had any concern from any instructor about riding in a converible, ...
I don't know if your statement is correct for your particular PCA region, but as a generalization it is incorrect. The fact is a stock Boxster is excluded by some DE groups and required to comply with broomstick by others. Some tracks (e.g., I believe, LRP) impose such restrictions even if the organizers don't. My PCA region prohibits non-broomstick compliant convertibles (including Boxsters) from running in the faster run groups. The OP should check w/his area DE clubs and tracks to determine their rules.
Originally Posted by jderiansf
Get a Boxster S and fit a hardtop for when you do DE's.
Unfortunately, that won't qualify a Boxster as a hardtop for DE purposes.
I tracked (DE & AX) my Boxster for pass three years and didn't have any problems with participating in PCA events, however I was not allowed to participate in some non PCA events because factory roll over protection didn't meet the minimum safety requirements for a convertible.
There have been a few roll-overs accidents at the track that host our HPDE events; fortunately no one was hurt, just bruised pride. I have never witness a bad wreck at any PCA events just cars spun off the track into the grass.
If you are going to use the car mainly as a track car than get the Cayman it is a great car in stock form, you will be very impressed .
Such a tossup.......go with your heart....what do YOU want? Buy it.
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I don't know if your statement is correct for your particular PCA region, but as a generalization it is incorrect. The fact is a stock Boxster is excluded by some DE groups and required to comply with broomstick by others. Some tracks (e.g., I believe, LRP) impose such restrictions even if the organizers don't. My PCA region prohibits non-broomstick compliant convertibles (including Boxsters) from running in the faster run groups. The OP should check w/his area DE clubs and tracks to determine their rules.
I don't have a copy of the rule book, but I'm 90% sure the Boxster OEM rollbar automatically qualifies under PCA rules.
I don't have a copy of the rule book, but I'm 90% sure the Boxster OEM rollbar automatically qualifies under PCA rules.
Of course you don't. There is no National PCA DE "rulebook" and there are no National PCA DE "rules." PCA publishes Minimum Standards which Regions must meet or exceed for their DE programs. I'm not sure why you keep debating this issue. Your blanket statements (as above) are incorrect and may mislead others outside your locale, operating under different rules.
Before formulating our local DE rules I researched several dozen PCA Regional rules from across the country, as well as those for other DE sponsoring clubs. Do the same and then get back to us.
I've instructed many times in 987 Boxsters and other convertibles with visible broomstick compliant rollbars/roll hoops. I, like many others, will not instruct in cars which would cause road rash on my helmet in the event of a rollover.
As others have said, if it is mainly for track/DE purposes, get a Cayman. If you like convertibles and the rules in your area allow the Boxster to participate, then Boxster is a fine choice; until you get really fast Then, you'll want a Cayman with a rollbar, and a bunch of other mods!
I've owned both and tracked both. Unless you are fanatical and/or racing, you'll never notice the difference in handling. As far as safety is concerned, I'm not convinced a stock Cayman is any safer than a stock Boxster. I witnessed a major rollover in a Cayman and the roof ended up completely flat; the driver did walk away, but I suspect he would have walked away if it was a Boxster too. If you are truly concerned about rollover protection, you need a good rollbar in both cars (the stock Boxster rollbar is okay, but not as good as a well-made 4-point bar which you'd also want in a Cayman as well).
Anyway, I sold my Cayman and now have a Boxster (second one; had one before the Cayman). Since it is driven on the roads 95% of the time, I prefer the fun of the convertible. Both are fantastic cars; I consider them to be the best street sports car chassis on the planet (at any cost).
Per STLPCA, the rules do vary from club to club. Both clubs I DE with address the issue. Schattenbaum says Boxters, Targas, and 914 are acceptable without add-on roll bars. Riesentoter says that for the Boxter-Driver's and passenger's helmet must be below the line extending between the roll bar and the windshield with the driver sitting upright and well back in the seat. If not adequate clearance, factory hardtop must be installed. Check with the clubs you plan to drive with. There's a good chance that their tech forms are online.
I'm going to echo the many comments already here, just to reinforce them.
If the car is for the track, the choice is simple. Go with the Cayman. You will benefit from a stiffer chassis that is sprung tighter and if you should ever be unfortunate enough to find yourself in a roll over crash, you will have more protections than any Boxster with any hard top.
See this video. If you were driving the car off on the left, which would you rather be in? A Boxster or a Cayman?
This happened at a PCA DE. The car you see on the left is a GT-3. Both driver and instructor walked away, very beat up, but alive.
While I am no track expert, and I do own a Boxster. I'd say that a Cayman should be safer (due to having the hardtop). I'm not sure it is that much safer than a Boxster with a hardtop though, but I guess it might be slightly!
On another note, may I ask what a "broomstick" test is?
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On another note, may I ask what a "broomstick" test is?
From the PCA website: "2) The roll bar must allow the driver to pass the "broomstick" test which means that the top of the drivers helmet must be below the line from the top of the roll bar to the top of the windshield. There are aftermarket roll bars and/or seats which can be used to help meet these requirements. "
I guess a broomstick makes a convenient straightedge that is long enough to reach across the cockpit.
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2006 Cayman S Tiptronic (Year-round Daily Driver & Part-time Track Toy)
Mods: SRP, DREAM-1, VentureShield, Xpel Headlamp shields, 35% Tint, MotorDrive Front Mesh Grills, Bumperplugs..
Track Prep: Pagid Yellows, Champion RS98s/NT05s, Deka ETX14 Battery, CG-Lock, Extinguisher, Rennline towhook, BBI Harness/Rollbar
On another note, may I ask what a "broomstick" test is?
The "broomstick test" physically places a bar (e.g., broomstick) resting atop the rollbar or roll hoop and the windshield frame. The helmeted head of the driver/passenger must be below the bar when seated properly in the seat (i.e., track appropriate seat and occupant placement - no slouching, reclining, etc.).
Obviously my statement on the “Broom Stick” test was wrong and I apologize for it.
The Roll Bar on the 987 Boxster is around 3 - 4 inches above the top of the seat. I have a hard time believing a normal Boxster owner wouldn't pass the test. I assume it would take someone 6-7 or above to fail.
Regarding rollover risk, if you turn a Cayman and a Boxster upside down and applied equal pressure, which one would crush first, the Cayman roof or the Boxster Rollbar? Is this relevant or this the risk a softtop vs a hardtop.
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