Planet 9

Is it acceptable to use an open face Snell SA 2005 helmet for these driver's education events? Or is a full face type helmet required?

Thanks.

Depends on your local region's rules, but typically open face is fine as long as the Snell requirement is up to snuff.

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K-Man S

Just remember.... it's your face and your head. Which do YOU think provides better protection??
Just some food for thought......
TOM

I would counter that with if I can "SEE" a potential problem I can avoid it, if I am inside a helmet that restricts my peripheral vision then I cannot. I recommend test fitting several helmets to see which works best for you.

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K-Man S

This is analogous with the idea of driving a smaller more maneuverable vehicle and avoiding a collision versus driving a larger heavier vehicle that will withstand a collision that it could not avoid.

I don't know that I would go so far as to say that full-face helmets are less safe than open-face helmets because of less peripheral visibility, which is pretty much what your analogy says. Plenty of accidents are avoided every weekend by drivers using full-face helmets - I feel this is a red herring. If you have your mirrors properly adjusted, and are truly "track aware" you should have no visibility problems with a full-face helmet. The final test is what you are most comfortable with.

As said above, open-face helmets are certainly allowed in most, if not all DEs, if they're of the proper Snell SA certification. A full-face helmet can take some getting used to for some, others have no problems adapting quickly - it's quite a personal thing. I will add some things to think about: There is little doubt that in a very bad shunt, a full-face helmet will protect you more... that said, serious shunts are rare at DEs. You also might consider versatility. If you decide to take a driving school with open-cockpit cars, you'll wish you'd gotten a full-face helmet. The nice thing about an SA (as opposed to an M-spec.) full-face helmet, is that you can use it for almost all applications - closed car, open car, open wheel, whatever.

Again, it is dependent on what you'll be driving with the helmet on, and what you are most comfortable wearing that is the final test for each of us.

I'll leave you with an old racing adage - "If you have a cheap head, get a cheap helmet." Get the best quality, most versatile, and lightest helmet you can afford for the specific applications you'll be using.

brad

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PCA DE Instructor

Beez,

I didn't mean to imply that visibility would necessarily be an issue with a full face helmet, only that it "could" be and was thus recommending that the OP test out various helmets and get one that works for him. I have put on full face helmets that don't restrict my vision and I have put on ones that have, I was only pointing out that a potential buyer should not "automatically" assume that one is better than the other, that it comes down to the individual fitting/testing of the owner. Which is where we certainly both agree, sorry if I wasn't clear above, being too pithy I suppose...

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K-Man S

"I would counter that with if I can "SEE" a potential problem I can avoid it, if I am inside a helmet that restricts my peripheral vision then I cannot. I recommend test fitting several helmets to see which works best for you."

I would have to say that my HANS device, 6 point harnesses and seat with head restraints on the sides all do much more to "inhibit" my peripheral vision than my full face helmet. I use all those devices due to the superior protection that they provide. I have never found any of them to interfere with my situational awareness on the track. In the pits they can be a pain.
As I implied before, to each his own.
Best of luck,
Tom

Thanks for all of your thoughts on the matter.

Due to the presence of air bags, some organizations discourage the use of full helmets at lower levels of DE.


I like the open face since I wear glasses and I believe I can hear the instructor better. Not to mention cooler in the summer.

Huh? Who discourages full face helmets in air bag cars? If so, seems like a position based on ignorance.

I happily used an open face Bell for many years and moved to a full face lightweight HJC Si-12 last year. It took some getting used to because of reduced visibility, especially inside the car (e.g., it's hard to see the PASM, Sport or PSM buttons while I'm driving), but surprisingly my HJC has great ventilation w/o the visor and is actually cooler than the Bell.

As to hearing your instructor, don't your DE instructors use (intercom) communicators? I've never instructed without one and we require all our instructors to use them. Otherwise verbal communication is difficult regardless of helmet.

However, to answer the OP's question - I know of no DE sponsor that prohibits open face helments. Buy and use what fits and works best for you.

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Dan

there was a memo written by SCCA...

To checkout a discussion search "air bags" and helmets on rennlist.

I've a newbie but in the few PCA DE's I have done, none of the instructors had a communciation system. Still enjoyed evey minute of it and heard the instructor fine. Remeber we are talking about lower DE levels.

I was part of those Rennlist discussions from 4-5 years ago, shortly after the SCCA (non-race) tech advisory was published. The "recommendations" were issued subject to further review. IIRC an SCCA study and those of others were inclusive about whether a full face (FF) or open face (OF) helmet was "safer" in an exploding airbag car. FF could theoretically increase the likelihood of a possible jaw injury and OF could theoretically increase the likelihood of a possible facial injury. Pick your poison. Both types could theoretically increase the likelihood of a possible neck injury with (pick your choice): OF being worse because the bag can catch the open face area (as it squashes the face) and lift the OF helmet up and off your head or FF being worse because the bag can catch the chin guard and jerk the head back.

The only conclusive findings were that airbags aren't designed for use with ANY helmets and wearing ANY helmet in an airbag car can cause undesired results.However, ANY helmet is likely to reduce injuries from impacts not prevented by the airbag, e.g., steering wheel, side windows, dashboard, windshield, etc.

Remember, severe track crashes frequently involve multiple impacts where the airbags are gone after impact #1. Further, belts and the body stretch and head impact with the inside of the car or a passenger is not unusual.

Anyway, it's unfortunate that the old, misleading and long abandoned SCCA memo still periodically surfaces on web boards.

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Dan

I wear eye glasses and choose a Bell S2R. It is a closed face helmet without a visor. It has a large eye-port which allows you to put on your glasses after putting on the helmet. Make sure that you try on any helmet that you're considering. Fit should be more snug then you might think. A good shop can help with fit.

thank you for the clarification...makes sense

As an aside, you should bitch to whoever runs your Region's DEs to require instructors to use communicators. If you're paying for DE instruction you shouldn't have to strain or break concentration to hear it. DEs are about the students, not the instructors, and whatever makes for better instruction should be done (all IMO of course).

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Dan

I actually bought my own communicator when I was still a student, when I became frustrated at not being able to hear my instructor. I think every instructor should have a good motorcycle communicator; you might check with the organizing body prior to the event.

I would also make a plug for using a head sock (balaclava). It keeps a lot of sweat out of the helmet over the weekend (I bring three, and rotate through them as they dry). I had a student who also felt that it helped his helmet fit better, though a well-fitting helmet is still best.

John