Planet 9

teoh2005 · #1 06-08-2009, 06:46 PM

Was at a track event in early May when I had the engine failure. It was the 3rd session of the day (Advanced group) and about 10 min in the session after going through a series of turns, I start hearing a mechanical rattling sound while applying throttle and then got a "Low Oil Pressure" warning light. Immediately after I lost all power and drive and had to run off the track.

Car was then towed in the pits and would not start. Was eventually towed to a dealer and the oil pan was opened up.

As you can see there is a ton of metal in there. Diagnosis seemed to be a failed connecting causing the piston to knock around in the cylinder wall(mechanical rattling as I described earlier). Only fix was a new engine. Decided to go with a new 3.4 from Porsche as they would cover 75% of it (thankful they covered something.)

A lightweight flywheel from Sharkwerks is going in as well as the "improved" oil separator. After doing some research I've also decided to try the oilsafe kit from TTP. It basically adds another pickup for oil from the head at cylinder #1, should hopefully prevent future oiling problems which I speculate caused the failure. No way of really knowing unless the engine is opened up and as I am not a mechanic can only attempt to come to some sort of logical solution. "mpowersurf" also has the kit on his X51 engine and after calling and speaking with TTP, I've learned that it is also used on a Boxster that runs the 24 Hour Nurburgring, so that can't hurt. Will also add an extended oil pan from Mantis. Who knows if this will all work but from the way I see it, its cheap insurance to prevent another possible future engine failure.

Finally I also ordered a power steering insulation kit from Epiq to put on the new engine. Today I went to the dealership to look at the old engine and snapped some pics with my Iphone of the old power steering line.

As you can see the line is in direct contact with the block and already started to melt and leak fluid. I did also get a power steering "creak" that started earlier this year, I subsequently checked the PS level and it was in fact low. I recommend anyone who tracks their car heavily to get the Epiq Insulation kit, couldn't hurt in my opinion.

All in all, very excited to get my car back as it has been about a month. None of this has deterred me from wanting to track my car. I plan to do more events before the end of this season. The Cayman S is a great track car, just needs some minor tweaks here and there. Best of luck to all you drivers out there.

-Kevin

**fondueski** · #2 06-08-2009, 07:44 PM

Hi Kevin,
Sorry to hear about your misfortune. Can you comment on why 75% coverage? Why not 100% and how did they decide on 3/4?

**K-Man S** · #3 06-08-2009, 08:23 PM

Originally Posted by fondueski

Hi Kevin,
Sorry to hear about your misfortune. Can you comment on why 75% coverage? Why not 100% and how did they decide on 3/4?

Yes I am curious as to why they decided on 3/4? Can you tell us which rod bearing failed, was it the one closest to the front of the car or closest to the rear of the car or somewhere in between? (I'm willing to bet it was the one closest to the rear of the car)

***DaveN007*** · #4 06-08-2009, 08:59 PM

Street tires or something stickier?

teoh2005 · #5 06-08-2009, 10:08 PM

Originally Posted by K-Man S

Yes I am curious as to why they decided on 3/4? Can you tell us which rod bearing failed, was it the one closest to the front of the car or closest to the rear of the car or somewhere in between? (I'm willing to bet it was the one closest to the rear of the car)

B/c the car was tracked, Porsche is covering 75% of the engine but no labor. In the end Porsche covers slightly more than 50% total. I'm not 100% sure which rod failed, but will ask the shop when I pick up the car.

Car was running on stock PS2s with Stock PASM. Also had a Quaife TBD.

-Kevin

**K-Man S** · #6 06-09-2009, 05:12 AM

Originally Posted by teoh2005

B/c the car was tracked, Porsche is covering 75% of the engine but no labor. In the end Porsche covers slightly more than 50% total. I'm not 100% sure which rod failed, but will ask the shop when I pick up the car.

Car was running on stock PS2s with Stock PASM. Also had a Quaife TBD.

-Kevin

Kevin,

I think it is important for you to find out which rod failed. Since there have been multiple engine failures on the track and so far as I know all of them have been related to either one of two causes it would be nice to know if yours was one of those 2 causes as well (cracked piston or failure of rear-most rod bearing). Given that you were on street tires I would not have thought that you would have had enough oil starvation for the rod bearing to go, but depending upon how much oil was in your engine I guess anything is possible. Please let us know which rod failed, if the pan is off and the tranny down it wouldn't take the dealership much work to find out which one failed.

gmorat · #7 06-09-2009, 09:17 AM

Is there a link available for the oilsafe from tpp?

G.

beez · #8 06-09-2009, 09:25 AM

Originally Posted by K-Man S

Kevin,

I think it is important for you to find out which rod failed. Since there have been multiple engine failures on the track and so far as I know all of them have been related to either one of two causes it would be nice to know if yours was one of those 2 causes as well (cracked piston or failure of rear-most rod bearing). Given that you were on street tires I would not have thought that you would have had enough oil starvation for the rod bearing to go, but depending upon how much oil was in your engine I guess anything is possible. Please let us know which rod failed, if the pan is off and the tranny down it wouldn't take the dealership much work to find out which one failed.

This might also depend on which track (or tracks) the car has been run on... some tracks will be better candidates for oil starvation, than others, even on street tires...

brad

**Krokodil** · #9 06-09-2009, 09:29 AM

Also see this thread: http://www.planetporsche.net/cayman-...e-failure.html

The thread is very long, but provides some excellent commentary on the engine, failure modes, potential fixes, and waht was done to the topic engine to improve reliability.

Cheers,

teoh2005 · #10 06-09-2009, 11:16 AM

Originally Posted by beez

This might also depend on which track (or tracks) the car has been run on... some tracks will be better candidates for oil starvation, than others, even on street tires...

brad

I agree, another Cayman S failed the previous year at the same track but it was on track tires. Car should be ready this week, will give an update on which rod/part failed.

-Kevin

teoh2005 · #11 06-09-2009, 11:24 AM

Originally Posted by gmorat

Is there a link available for the oilsafe from tpp?

G.

The kit can be ordered from TTP directly, here is mpowersurf's thread on the kit:

http://www.planetporsche.net/cayman-...987-997-a.html

I also had some emails back and forth and also called TTP, this is what they have to say about the kit:

"I drove a record in Nardo with my Cayman Turbo with 470 HP.
I had to make 40 km absolute full throttle with 7.700 revs and 324,3 km/h.
The engine made no problems although I used original pistons and rods.

For your normal aspirated engine the parts are absolutely strong enough.

This engine makes only oil problems on race tracks or streetuse in
very fast corners and semi-slicks or slicks. The Cayman/Boxster needs a
oil saversystem, as in left corners the oil goes to the front of the right cylinderhead.
As the original return pump is on the rear side of the cylinderhead, the pump sucks air
because the oil is in the front.
Our oilpump sucks the oil from the front and brings it back to the crankcase.
If the oil comes not back to the crankcase the engine oil pump sucks air and the
bearings are very fast damaged.

I hope you unserstood now the problems of this kind of engine.

Looking forward to hear from you and
best regards,
Ferdinand Pietz"

I should be receiving the kit in a few weeks. From what TTP told me the kit can be installed without issues with the engine in the car and it should take about 5 hours.

-Kevin

RingSport · #12 06-09-2009, 04:13 PM

I'm surprised they did not cover 100% considering you were on street tires and not racing. Sets an interesting precedent for them as a manufacturer selling sports cars given their current warranty language.

teoh2005 · #13 06-09-2009, 04:31 PM

Originally Posted by RingSport

I'm surprised they did not cover 100% considering you were on street tires and not racing. Sets an interesting precedent for them as a manufacturer selling sports cars given their current warranty language.

I believe the manual states that Porsche does not cover failures at any track events, not particular to racing.

-Kevin

BMWalsh · #14 06-09-2009, 04:46 PM

Sorry to hear about your troubles! But thank you for this post.

I've been tracking my Cayman without any problems but I feel like it's only a matter of time. I need to address the oil issue but could you explain more about the power steering symptoms?

I was on track this past weekend for two days and noticed creaking sound with my steering. It was only evident when I came off track and the car was hot. After it cooled the noise was gone. Did you have the same experience? Did you smell or see evidence of a PS leak? My car was never hard to steer and I never saw/smelled any fluid, so I was speculating that it could be a bearing issue in my shock mounts.

Thanks!

Tomasz · #15 06-09-2009, 05:29 PM

Originally Posted by BMWalsh

Sorry to hear about your troubles! But thank you for this post.

I've been tracking my Cayman without any problems but I feel like it's only a matter of time. I need to address the oil issue but could you explain more about the power steering symptoms?

I was on track this past weekend for two days and noticed creaking sound with my steering. It was only evident when I came off track and the car was hot. After it cooled the noise was gone. Did you have the same experience? Did you smell or see evidence of a PS leak? My car was never hard to steer and I never saw/smelled any fluid, so I was speculating that it could be a bearing issue in my shock mounts.

Thanks!

Search please. You can start in articles. This info is easy to find.

**consolidated** · #16 06-09-2009, 06:02 PM

Originally Posted by teoh2005

The kit can be ordered from TTP directly, here is mpowersurf's thread on the kit:

http://www.planetporsche.net/cayman-...987-997-a.html

I also had some emails back and forth and also called TTP, this is what they have to say about the kit:

"I drove a record in Nardo with my Cayman Turbo with 470 HP.
I had to make 40 km absolute full throttle with 7.700 revs and 324,3 km/h.
The engine made no problems although I used original pistons and rods.

For your normal aspirated engine the parts are absolutely strong enough.

This engine makes only oil problems on race tracks or streetuse in
very fast corners and semi-slicks or slicks. The Cayman/Boxster needs a
oil saversystem, as in left corners the oil goes to the front of the right cylinderhead.
As the original return pump is on the rear side of the cylinderhead, the pump sucks air
because the oil is in the front.
Our oilpump sucks the oil from the front and brings it back to the crankcase.
If the oil comes not back to the crankcase the engine oil pump sucks air and the
bearings are very fast damaged.

I hope you unserstood now the problems of this kind of engine.

Looking forward to hear from you and
best regards,
Ferdinand Pietz"

I should be receiving the kit in a few weeks. From what TTP told me the kit can be installed without issues with the engine in the car and it should take about 5 hours.

-Kevin

I'm considering this kit, it seems like the best safeguard at the moment. Do you know if the engine needs to be dropped to install this, it looks like it does. Also, have you had any estimates for how many hours it will take?

**Gilles** · #17 06-09-2009, 06:34 PM

[QUOTE=consolidated;369319] Do you know if the engine needs to be dropped to install this, it looks like it does.

Consolidated,
I forwarded the TTP link to a local shop in SoCal (Hergersheimer Motorsports) and after reviewing it they mention that only the cam cover had to be removed (for drilling & tapping) to accept the oil line fitting, and that the tandem oil pump could be installed without removing anything else.
We didn't talk about labor time because they have never done it, but they mentioned that it was a simple installation.

Note: TTP mentioned that their price could be lower if you provide a couple of used oil pumps to be reworked.

teoh2005 · #18 06-09-2009, 08:55 PM

Originally Posted by K-Man S

Yes I am curious as to why they decided on 3/4? Can you tell us which rod bearing failed, was it the one closest to the front of the car or closest to the rear of the car or somewhere in between? (I'm willing to bet it was the one closest to the rear of the car)

Originally Posted by BMWalsh

Sorry to hear about your troubles! But thank you for this post.

I've been tracking my Cayman without any problems but I feel like it's only a matter of time. I need to address the oil issue but could you explain more about the power steering symptoms?

I was on track this past weekend for two days and noticed creaking sound with my steering. It was only evident when I came off track and the car was hot. After it cooled the noise was gone. Did you have the same experience? Did you smell or see evidence of a PS leak? My car was never hard to steer and I never saw/smelled any fluid, so I was speculating that it could be a bearing issue in my shock mounts.

Thanks!

My car started making the same creaking noise earlier this year (low speed left turns) before the start of the track season. I checked the PS level and it was very low so I topped it off. I started to notice it again right after sessions at the track. I thought it might have been some sort of suspension issue, dealer couldnt find anything but I always suspected it to be PS issue. Never had trouble steering or noticed PS fluid on the ground.

You can see the PS line on my old engine melting and leaking fluid on teh block, that explains the low fluid level, but I'm not 100% sure its related to the noise described. I bought the Epiq Autosport Insulation hoping it will prevent any future PS issues, but I've read over on the Boxster Spec Board, PS issues still arise without a proper PS cooler. Only thing to do now is drive and monitor the car.

-Kevin

teoh2005 · #19 06-09-2009, 09:05 PM

[QUOTE=Gilles;369323]

Originally Posted by consolidated

Do you know if the engine needs to be dropped to install this, it looks like it does.

Consolidated,
I forwarded the TTP link to a local shop in SoCal (Hergersheimer Motorsports) and after reviewing it they mention that only the cam cover had to be removed (for drilling & tapping) to accept the oil line fitting, and that the tandem oil pump could be installed without removing anything else.
We didn't talk about labor time because they have never done it, but they mentioned that it was a simple installation.

Note: TTP mentioned that their price could be lower if you provide a couple of used oil pumps to be reworked.

Spoke with Ferdinand at TTP and he told me the same thing. Valve cover needs to be removed to tap and install the kit. He estimates any shop should be able to do it in about 5 hours.

I never had any issues at the Autobahn Country Club in Joliet, IL except for oil ingestion and puffs of smoke but that should be cured with the new VOS. My car failed at Blackhawk Farms in South Beloit, IL. As I mentioned earlier in this thread another Cayman S failed there last year but was on track tires. I suspect the failures may be related to the configuration of the track. Best way to find out is to take my car there again with the oilsafe kit but it would REALLY SUCK to blow an engine again so I may hold off on Blackhawk till later.

-Kevin

**Krokodil** · #20 06-10-2009, 07:02 AM

Originally Posted by teoh2005

My car started making the same creaking noise earlier this year (low speed left turns) before the start of the track season. I checked the PS level and it was very low so I topped it off. I started to notice it again right after sessions at the track. I thought it might have been some sort of suspension issue, dealer couldnt find anything but I always suspected it to be PS issue. Never had trouble steering or noticed PS fluid on the ground.

You can see the PS line on my old engine melting and leaking fluid on teh block, that explains the low fluid level, but I'm not 100% sure its related to the noise described. I bought the Epiq Autosport Insulation hoping it will prevent any future PS issues, but I've read over on the Boxster Spec Board, PS issues still arise without a proper PS cooler. Only thing to do now is drive and monitor the car.

-Kevin

Review this thread, if you have not already, as it provides a few suggested modifications: http://www.planetporsche.net/cayman-...tml#post369452
One year of heavy track use and racing on the modfied system without issue.

Cheers,