| Cayman and Boxster Competition Auto Cross, Club Racing, DE, this is the place to discuss the 987 on the track |
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06-24-2009, 02:56 PM
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2.7 vs S worth 2 secs?
Hi all,
On a 65 second auto-x course, do you think running an S model would be worth 2 seconds vs. a 2.7? Of course this is on the same course, same day etc.
I am just trying to gauge how much of those 2 seconds difference are the car, and how much is the driver. There are tire differences too, but let's eliminate tire differences. Figure both cars on the same tires (even though they weren't).
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Jason
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06-24-2009, 03:22 PM
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Re: 2.7 vs S worth 2 secs?
unless the same driver is driving both cars I do not see how you can make any conclusion. And unless the driver is Michael Schuhmacher I don't see how a normal driver can put down two identical laps in two different cars to make a comparison based on that either.
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06-24-2009, 03:56 PM
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Re: 2.7 vs S worth 2 secs?
Given that the suspensions are basically the same, gearing different (5spd vs. 6spd), I'm just trying to get feedback as to horsepower differences.
I'm not trying to come to any conclusions, just speculations based on experiences or theories.
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Jason
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06-24-2009, 03:56 PM
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Re: 2.7 vs S worth 2 secs?
Originally Posted by Schwabe
unless the same driver is driving both cars I do not see how you can make any conclusion. And unless the driver is Michael Schuhmacher I don't see how a normal driver can put down two identical laps in two different cars to make a comparison based on that either.
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I agree - and to further the discussion, it would also very much depend on the configuration of the course. A more open course where there's some straights would favor the CS, where a very tight course would probably be closer to a wash. The CS has a fairly tall 2nd gear, so a very tight course that's too fast to run in 1st, could be a disadvantage to the CS over the 2.7.
brad
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06-25-2009, 06:33 AM
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Re: 2.7 vs S worth 2 secs?
I agree with what's been said above. It's mostly the driver. So far this season I have not seen a noticable difference between S and non S. Very often I have seen non-S's beating the S's. Sure some places there will be a bigger difference but I doubt it would ever be 2 seconds, all other things being equal.
The place where I feel the most disadvantaged in my 2.7 is coming out of a slow turn in second gear. It's not bad enough that I want to downshift and then shift back up again but I feel like time is passing me by when the RPMs are down that low.
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06-25-2009, 11:10 AM
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Re: 2.7 vs S worth 2 secs?
Fair enough. I know I have some work to do with regards to my driving.
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Jason
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06-25-2009, 12:12 PM
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Re: 2.7 vs S worth 2 secs?
Originally Posted by jmazz
I agree with what's been said above. It's mostly the driver. So far this season I have not seen a noticable difference between S and non S. Very often I have seen non-S's beating the S's. Sure some places there will be a bigger difference but I doubt it would ever be 2 seconds, all other things being equal.
The place where I feel the most disadvantaged in my 2.7 is coming out of a slow turn in second gear. It's not bad enough that I want to downshift and then shift back up again but I feel like time is passing me by when the RPMs are down that low.
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I have the same experience - in my 2.7 I am finding no great difficulty in matching S times, probably thanks to the lower weight of my car. FWIW I have the 6-speed/ PASM pack on my 2.7
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PASM - Porsche Active Suspension Management
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This active damping system offers continuous adjustment of individual damping forces based on current road conditions and driving style.
The driver can choose from two setup modes, ‘Normal’ and ‘Sport’, using a separate ‘damper’ button on the center console. ‘Normal’ mode is designed for general road driving and circuits with uneven tarmac. ‘Sport’ mode is intended for smoother track surfaces, where the harder settings help eliminate pitch and roll.
In either mode, PASM continuously evaluates the current conditions while automatically selecting the corresponding damper rates from the respective set of mapped values.
A range of sensors are used to monitor the movement of the body under acceleration, braking and cornering maneuvers, as well as on poor road surfaces. The PASM control unit then evaluates this data and modifies the damping force on each individual wheel in accordance with the selected mode. The result is a significant reduction in body movement as well as a better grip on the road.
For example: if ‘Sport’ mode is selected, the suspension is automatically set to a harder damper rating. If the quality of the track surface falls below a certain threshold, the system immediately changes to a softer rating within the ‘Sport’ setup range. When the quality of the tarmac improves once more, PASM automatically returns to the original, harder rating.
Need more information about PASM? Click this link: FAQ for PASM |
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06-29-2009, 06:19 AM
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Re: 2.7 vs S worth 2 secs?
Originally Posted by jderiansf
On a 65 second auto-x course...
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I don't know what group you are running autocross with, but if it's either SCCA or PCA, the S is classed "higher" than the non-S. So heads up, you'd have to say the S would have an advantage, but in class I think the non-S might have an advantage... against it's "peers". The non-S has some tough competition in AS -- the S2000 chief among them -- but SS, where the CS plays, is a very tough class with Z06's, Elises, and GT3s.
Anyway, back to your original question, I'd find it hard to believe on a typical 65 second course that a CS is a full 2 seconds faster than a non-S. Could be close to that on an open course, but thats a lot of time on a 65 second course...
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06-29-2009, 07:02 AM
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Re: 2.7 vs S worth 2 secs?
If you can believe this. My dealer actually talked me out of an S when I was shopping for my Cayman. The dealership had both in stock at the time. He said why pay almost 10K more for less than a two second bump. I was shocked at him being so candid. I am sure the S has it advantage(s) but I am totally happy with my purchase.
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06-29-2009, 11:46 AM
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Re: 2.7 vs S worth 2 secs?
Originally Posted by Cantrax
If you can believe this. My dealer actually talked me out of an S when I was shopping for my Cayman. The dealership had both in stock at the time. He said why pay almost 10K more for less than a two second bump. I was shocked at him being so candid. I am sure the S has it advantage(s) but I am totally happy with my purchase.
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My dealer did the same! Although I bought an 09 2.9L. It makes a lot of sense...and I NEVER find the car underpowered. But I must admit, now that I know what this car can do, I'm wondering if going for the S would've been even better.
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06-29-2009, 12:13 PM
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I would Like to see a Really good Driver (Like Ken) Drive a stock S VS my Modded out 2.7 Liter on the same track same day.Would be interesting to watch but either way I am very satisfied with my 2.7 .When I learn to Drive on the track in the near future I plan on having a Turbo installed on my 2.7 
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06-29-2009, 04:48 PM
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Re: 2.7 vs S worth 2 secs?
Probably not. If you compare the PAX factors for the stock cars, SCCA gives the S version a 1.5% advantage and PCA (Golden Gate Region) gives it a 1% advantage. So, if you believe the PAX factors (and that could be a whole other discussion in its own right), the CS should be 0.65-0.975 seconds faster on a 65 second course. I agree with the previous comments that driver talent is a much bigger factor in autocross than sheer horsepower. Look at Demmick Boyden's results at the last few GGR events as proof of this.
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