Planet 9

BGLeduc · #41 08-07-2008, 10:45 AM

It took me forever to get comfortable with the way the Cayman shifts and the way the clutch feels...in fact I am still maybe not 100% comfortable with it.

To me it just felt like there was nowhere near enough feedback through the clutch pedal. My '90 911, while having a heavier feel to the pedal, gives me great feedback. I just assumed I needed to take some time to get comfortable with the Croc, but maybe its NOT all just me?

I am not big on mods, but may actually try this one. It is simple enough to do.

Note to Beez....another item to check for at the '09 Parade, along with De-snororking! ;-)

One more thing...does this interact with Sport Chrono? I normally do not use Sport Mode because I do not like the non-linear throttle tip in. From reading this thread, it almost seems like taping over the CDV switch will perhaps result in a nice hallway point between the way the car feels with SC off, and with it on.

Brian

***DaveN007*** · #42 08-07-2008, 10:56 AM

Originally Posted by Beach Croc

Looking in one of the parts catalog the switch may be represented by figure 16 in the Section on Hand Controls and Pedals the PN is 997 613 109 00.

Two comments:
First, the picture of switch does not look like switch in photo (just an observation).

Second, the application is for model I480 (I480 = 6 speed) does anyone with a 5 speed have this same switch or is it a 6 speed only application? Being a 997 PN seems to imply that 911 model also uses this switch.

Question:

Since this is an electric switch, how does it delay clutch? or effect engine RPM?

In BMW it is a hydraulic restriction (metering orifice) thus limiting release rate of slave cylinder - therfore clutch engagement rate.

I think it accomplishes the goal of a CDV by retarding the engine. So you can let clutch go as quickly as you want, but the engine won't be developing any power...so it does nothing to delay the clutch...it softens the blow to the drive line components by reining in the engine.

But I am speculating.

**Blitzkrieg** · #43 08-07-2008, 11:24 AM

Originally Posted by Yancy

Since I don't care for sticky tape much, I opted for the electrical bypass. A small piece of wire with the ends stripped, stuffed into the two sockets on the connector will do the trick.

Looks like this:

I hadn't driven a manual for many years before picking up my CS and although its always been very drivable, I've consistently felt a disconnect between myself and the clutch. I really want to give this a shot to see the difference, and even though I don't do many mods myself this one seems completely within my realm of difficulty.

For those of us who are less mechanically inclined (as in myself

), the pictures showing your electrical bypass there are 4 copper connectors, how can you determine which 2 to short out to disable to clutch delay?

FriscoCayman · #44 08-07-2008, 11:38 AM

I wonder if this is a possible option for Scott at Softronic to implement. "Cluch delay bypass"

**Slatfatf** · #45 08-07-2008, 12:02 PM

Originally Posted by Blitzkrieg

For those of us who are less mechanically inclined (as in myself

), the pictures showing your electrical bypass there are 4 copper connectors, how can you determine which 2 to short out to disable to clutch delay?

Study the photo carefully. The connector orientation is determined by the pattern of lugs in the center of the connector. It will only go on 1 way, and that uniquely identifies the location of the jumper wires.

jmazz · #46 08-07-2008, 12:19 PM

Thanks for the pictures yancy. I think that I will try to insert the jumper wire from behind so that I can leave everything else connected as stock. That should prevent any rattling noises or unwanted attention from the dealer.

**Blitzkrieg** · #47 08-07-2008, 01:25 PM

Originally Posted by Fort Felker

Study the photo carefully. The connector orientation is determined by the pattern of lugs in the center of the connector. It will only go on 1 way, and that uniquely identifies the location of the jumper wires.

Thanks Fort, I see what you're saying now, can't wait to give this a try when I get home this evening

.

Nexus-6 · #48 08-07-2008, 01:48 PM

Originally Posted by DaveN007

I think it accomplishes the goal of a CDV by retarding the engine. So you can let clutch go as quickly as you want, but the engine won't be developing any power...so it does nothing to delay the clutch...it softens the blow to the drive line components by reining in the engine.

But I am speculating.

This is what I surmise is happening too. In the Mazda MX5, this is precisely what is taking place and due to the exhaust note change (the "braaap" we've mentioned) I think it's pretty clear that Porsche is doing the same thing and retarding timing post shift for aprox. 1.7 seconds give or take. So the observation is correct by the other poster - the clutch isn't actually changed a bit when this switch is activated. Rather, the ECU reduces power momentarily after a shift to soften the blow.

Yancy, great pics! You beat me to it...was going to take pics of the cap from elmo installed but that's exactly what I would have shown.

**Slatfatf** · #49 08-07-2008, 01:52 PM

Yancy - you should turn your post into an article. It will be easy to do now that you've got the pictures.

**sapentia** · #50 08-07-2008, 02:14 PM

After reading this today I had to take a quick break from the office, make a jumper from some scrap wire, and go out to my CS for mod #???. Haven't had a chance to drive it yet but I did back it up and pull back into my space and even with that I could tell a difference in the clutch feel. Thanks Nexus-6.

Daytona · #51 08-07-2008, 02:25 PM

Wow, I wish I knew what you are all talking about. I don't feel this clutch delay issue in my '07 CS. Am I not sensitive enough? After reading all the comments it seems that this would be a good mod for autocrossing.

Kujibo · #52 08-07-2008, 04:12 PM

I'm curious if the this switch has anything to do with a problem I have. I have to get out of a very steep fairly long driveway. With PSM off, if I launch the car smoothly at low RPM and start going up the hill (from a flatter start), I get no power with the gas floored, I mean I just barely creep up the hill. Some times I don't make it at all without stalling, sometimes I just make it. If I instead were to drop the clutch from a higher RPM things go much better. My SUV that has half the horsepower (though auto) has no problem like this, hard to believe this car does not have the juice to make it.

Now by the time I am 1/3 of the way up the hill I am long past 1.7 seconds, so it might not seem like a clutch switch issue. I wonder however what the real criteria for bringing on the power is though, perhaps it is more a difference in RPM from when the clutch is engaged? It seems like a small difference in initial launch speed makes a huge difference going up the hill. I'm quite sure the ECU is majorly cutting power, I do wonder if it also might be because the engine is a bit colder though.

Other than that I don't have major complaints about the shifting given my driving and would probably want to leave things be for the sake of longevity. But if it solves this problem it might be worth it to me.

deuce · #53 08-07-2008, 04:38 PM

Ok I tried this mod today and it doesn't work for me on my car at all. It seems to do the exact opposite than what is described in this thread. My CS is an '07 build and the stock clutch is very linear and you can take off in first easily with barely any gas at all (Also never experienced the braap that many have identified) I tried to give it a few hours of driving to test it out and it is no bueno, I let out the clutch slowly and it tries so hard to stall i give it a good amount of steady throttle and start moving away and the whole rpm fluctuates and I get a Braaaap. Its never linear at all if you try leaving in first and even give it a steady 1,200rpms its never constant it wants to bog then the rpms just quickly up to about 1500 1600 and you are off. Too weird, anyone else have this experience?

Nexus-6 · #54 08-07-2008, 07:53 PM

Deuce, is it possible that you did it backwards and are leaving the pin in the OUT position instead of the fully in position? I mean no disrespect of course but thought I should clarify. I had braapp before when the switch was working (braaap would occur in the out position like you describe) but with the pin taped tightly IN, the braaap is completely gone. This is why I ask - the braaap would be there all the time if the pin was left in the OUT position at all times (meaning the engine was retarding timing 100% of the time quite possibly).

Anyhow, the pin being out all the time would probably cause the symptoms you are describing. But I'm just guessing here of course!

If you have it taped completely in, in the closed position, I'm at a loss for why you may be getting the braaap still. If it's not taped or secured down 100%, I could see it not being fully IN. The way to test this would be to unplug the switch altogether and see if anything changes for you...

deuce · #55 08-07-2008, 08:19 PM

No I have the pin taped 100% in and I get these symptoms. Let's hope some other people try it and give feedback, because as it stands for my car she doesn't like it

bglz42@yahoo.com · #56 08-07-2008, 08:30 PM

My 07 definitely BRAAAPs! To test: I reved to 1000rpm (nuetral, clutch out), then started pushing the clutch in. BRRAAAAPPP! And rpm dropped to around 900... let clutch out, no BRAAP. I'll be taping that sucker down!

**4by4** · #57 08-07-2008, 09:54 PM

Would this explain why on several occasions when doing a very steep hill start the clutch slipped like hell even though I had full clutch engagement?

V man · #58 08-07-2008, 10:07 PM

I agree with Daytona, I have no clutch issues or any braaaap on my 07 CS.Also dont know what you're talking about with modern BMW's,my 06 325i daily driver has smoothest clutch engagement I've felt in over 30 years of driving manual trans cars. But thats just my opin. Good info here Nexxus, if it makes your car more enjoyable to drive !

***DaveN007*** · #59 08-07-2008, 10:22 PM

My car launches more smoothly without having to rev like mad. I definitely learned to live with it before...but I see nothing but upside. I am going to untape it in a couple of days and see how it feels. Chirps in 2nd. Sure seems like it is easier to drag race. LOL.

06cs · #60 08-08-2008, 12:42 AM

i did this mod but still can't chirp second, wasn't able to chirp before the mod either.