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06-16-2009, 02:39 PM
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Porsche Person
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Join Date: Jun 2009
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Motor Swaps
I see a limited amount of options out there to make significant power gains, it seems my ideal would be to swap a motor from the new GT3 into a 2008 cayman s. come winter when the new GT3 is on the market will this option be possible and what do you think it would all cost? Also how can I find more information on the X51 specs?
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06-16-2009, 03:26 PM
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Site Donor
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Re: Motor Swaps
This has discussed a few times before - you might want to do a search and see if you can find the threads.
In a nutshell, transplanting the present GT3 motor is very difficult - the current GT3 motor is based on the old split-case air-cooled engines used in the 911s from 1963 until 1995. This motor is called by some the GT-1 motor. It is presently used in the GT3, GT2 and 911 twin turbo cars. The motor mount pickup points are completely different and would need to be completely re-fabricated You'd be turning the engine around to face forward instead of it's present backwards orientation, so there would be some serious transmission work to be done, unless you were OK with just one forward gear (that being reverse on the GT3). Obviously, you could use the present transmission, but the bolt pattern/mating system on that is completely different, too. Then you would need to transplant the electronics, beef-up the brakes a whole lot, and well, who knows what else. If money was no object then anything can be done.
I think you would be better served with transplanting a new DFI 911 motor - motor mounting points are the same, the new 2009+ motors also have the correct match-up for the transmission, and they're not as tall as the '05-'08 911 motors because of the redesign eliminating the intermediate shaft. It is also just a better motor all around than the 05-'08s. One of our sponsors, Softronic (Scott Slauson) is doing these transplants, you might want to contact him to see what else is involved.
There's been no announcement yet of an X-51 package for the new DFI engines, but it usually boosts the HP by about 30 HP. Scott can probably attain that through ECU tuning, better intake, and free-flow exhaust tweaks, etc.
brad
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DFI
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Direct Fuel Injection (DFI), is a new technology that Porsche states can cut fuel consumption by up to 15 percent, while increasing power by up to 13 percent. DFI cuts emissions by warming up the catalytic converter more quickly, and ensures a sharper throttle response. Better for your right foot - and the planet, then.
DFI allows much more precise measurement of fuel supply and injection at pressures up to 120 bar; it has numerous combustion modes, with different cycles for cold-starting, low-speed driving and performance driving.
As the name suggests, DFI injects fuel directly into the individual combustion chambers, instead of the intake manifold. The injector valves have an electromagnetic mechanism that controls each injection with astonishing precision, while a high-pressure pump provides the necessary pressure—up to 1,740 psi—to accompany the rapid fire of the fuel injection.
Precise geometry of the injector’s position and its spray pattern is a key factor in helping to improve power, torque and emissions of the engines. The specific placement of the fuel as it enters each chamber creates a swirl that improves the air/fuel mixture, and therefore the overall combustion process.
At engine speeds up to 3500 rpm, a double-injection process is used. In this mode, the required fuel volume is delivered in two successive injections per working stroke. The resulting benefits include faster catalyst warm-up and increased torque in the upper load range.
By forming the air/fuel mix directly in the combustion chamber, DFI contributes to engine cooling. As a result, it is possible to increase the compression ratio and with it the power and efficiency of the engine.
The direct injection process is continuously adjusted. The engine management system reads changes to throttle inputs and performance requirements and, as you drive, the air/fuel mix is monitored and adapted as required. Oxygen sensor circuits within the exhaust system provide accurate emissions control. |
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06-17-2009, 09:17 AM
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Porsche Enthusiast
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: New Jersey
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Re: Motor Swaps
Actually the new x51 package for the DFI 997 is now listed as an option in "build your own" on the Porsche UK web site...so we should see it here soon.
Pricey though 8,066.00 Pounds
"Engine upgrade to 300 kW (408 bhp). Comprises modified cylinder heads, carbon-fibre air filter casing (upper part), new double resonance intake manifold, sports exhaust system featuring specially designed twin dual-tube tailpipes and modified engine management. Note: also available in conjunction with PDK"
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DFI
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Direct Fuel Injection (DFI), is a new technology that Porsche states can cut fuel consumption by up to 15 percent, while increasing power by up to 13 percent. DFI cuts emissions by warming up the catalytic converter more quickly, and ensures a sharper throttle response. Better for your right foot - and the planet, then.
DFI allows much more precise measurement of fuel supply and injection at pressures up to 120 bar; it has numerous combustion modes, with different cycles for cold-starting, low-speed driving and performance driving.
As the name suggests, DFI injects fuel directly into the individual combustion chambers, instead of the intake manifold. The injector valves have an electromagnetic mechanism that controls each injection with astonishing precision, while a high-pressure pump provides the necessary pressure—up to 1,740 psi—to accompany the rapid fire of the fuel injection.
Precise geometry of the injector’s position and its spray pattern is a key factor in helping to improve power, torque and emissions of the engines. The specific placement of the fuel as it enters each chamber creates a swirl that improves the air/fuel mixture, and therefore the overall combustion process.
At engine speeds up to 3500 rpm, a double-injection process is used. In this mode, the required fuel volume is delivered in two successive injections per working stroke. The resulting benefits include faster catalyst warm-up and increased torque in the upper load range.
By forming the air/fuel mix directly in the combustion chamber, DFI contributes to engine cooling. As a result, it is possible to increase the compression ratio and with it the power and efficiency of the engine.
The direct injection process is continuously adjusted. The engine management system reads changes to throttle inputs and performance requirements and, as you drive, the air/fuel mix is monitored and adapted as required. Oxygen sensor circuits within the exhaust system provide accurate emissions control. |
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JCO CST
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06-22-2009, 03:11 PM
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Porsche Person
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Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 3
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Re: Motor Swaps
Thanks, I have read about the experiences of x51 swaps but have not found any threads where a 3.8l dfi motor was used. From what you say it does sound optimal, but I'd like to know how seemlessly the experience has been for others.
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DFI
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Direct Fuel Injection (DFI), is a new technology that Porsche states can cut fuel consumption by up to 15 percent, while increasing power by up to 13 percent. DFI cuts emissions by warming up the catalytic converter more quickly, and ensures a sharper throttle response. Better for your right foot - and the planet, then.
DFI allows much more precise measurement of fuel supply and injection at pressures up to 120 bar; it has numerous combustion modes, with different cycles for cold-starting, low-speed driving and performance driving.
As the name suggests, DFI injects fuel directly into the individual combustion chambers, instead of the intake manifold. The injector valves have an electromagnetic mechanism that controls each injection with astonishing precision, while a high-pressure pump provides the necessary pressure—up to 1,740 psi—to accompany the rapid fire of the fuel injection.
Precise geometry of the injector’s position and its spray pattern is a key factor in helping to improve power, torque and emissions of the engines. The specific placement of the fuel as it enters each chamber creates a swirl that improves the air/fuel mixture, and therefore the overall combustion process.
At engine speeds up to 3500 rpm, a double-injection process is used. In this mode, the required fuel volume is delivered in two successive injections per working stroke. The resulting benefits include faster catalyst warm-up and increased torque in the upper load range.
By forming the air/fuel mix directly in the combustion chamber, DFI contributes to engine cooling. As a result, it is possible to increase the compression ratio and with it the power and efficiency of the engine.
The direct injection process is continuously adjusted. The engine management system reads changes to throttle inputs and performance requirements and, as you drive, the air/fuel mix is monitored and adapted as required. Oxygen sensor circuits within the exhaust system provide accurate emissions control. |
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01-19-2010, 10:01 PM
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Porsche Chatter
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Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 41
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Re: Motor Swaps
Originally Posted by jcocx
Actually the new x51 package for the DFI 997 is now listed as an option in "build your own" on the Porsche UK web site...so we should see it here soon.
Pricey though 8,066.00 Pounds
"Engine upgrade to 300 kW (408 bhp). Comprises modified cylinder heads, carbon-fibre air filter casing (upper part), new double resonance intake manifold, sports exhaust system featuring specially designed twin dual-tube tailpipes and modified engine management. Note: also available in conjunction with PDK"
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I wish they offered that option for the Cayman S
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DFI
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Direct Fuel Injection (DFI), is a new technology that Porsche states can cut fuel consumption by up to 15 percent, while increasing power by up to 13 percent. DFI cuts emissions by warming up the catalytic converter more quickly, and ensures a sharper throttle response. Better for your right foot - and the planet, then.
DFI allows much more precise measurement of fuel supply and injection at pressures up to 120 bar; it has numerous combustion modes, with different cycles for cold-starting, low-speed driving and performance driving.
As the name suggests, DFI injects fuel directly into the individual combustion chambers, instead of the intake manifold. The injector valves have an electromagnetic mechanism that controls each injection with astonishing precision, while a high-pressure pump provides the necessary pressure—up to 1,740 psi—to accompany the rapid fire of the fuel injection.
Precise geometry of the injector’s position and its spray pattern is a key factor in helping to improve power, torque and emissions of the engines. The specific placement of the fuel as it enters each chamber creates a swirl that improves the air/fuel mixture, and therefore the overall combustion process.
At engine speeds up to 3500 rpm, a double-injection process is used. In this mode, the required fuel volume is delivered in two successive injections per working stroke. The resulting benefits include faster catalyst warm-up and increased torque in the upper load range.
By forming the air/fuel mix directly in the combustion chamber, DFI contributes to engine cooling. As a result, it is possible to increase the compression ratio and with it the power and efficiency of the engine.
The direct injection process is continuously adjusted. The engine management system reads changes to throttle inputs and performance requirements and, as you drive, the air/fuel mix is monitored and adapted as required. Oxygen sensor circuits within the exhaust system provide accurate emissions control. |
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2008 M3
future Cayman S owner...
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01-20-2010, 01:03 AM
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PCA Member
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Join Date: Jun 2007
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Re: Motor Swaps
Well this one is almost as good, and it appears to be ready right now.
2008 Cayman S X51 - Classifieds
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Seat of the pants dyno
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01-20-2010, 06:17 AM
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Join Date: Jun 2008
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Re: Motor Swaps
There is also the catback exhaust that TPC is making. Schwabe is having a lot of power to put on the road!
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01-20-2010, 11:43 AM
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Re: Motor Swaps
Originally Posted by bigwong
There is also the catback exhaust that TPC is making. Schwabe is having a lot of power to put on the road!
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yeah... seriously, jokers. And for a lot less money. BTW, a 997.1 911 X51 motor only makes ~320 at the wheels.
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Tischer Porsche Sales | cparkin@tischer.com | 301.679.4384
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Tischer and TPC are two completely separate companies. I just happen to work for both. Please direct your questions to the correct email for me to contact you.
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01-20-2010, 01:41 PM
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Enjoying the drive.
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Re: Motor Swaps
Originally Posted by Bodhii
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That would be awesome as a track car. Not so sure as a DD.
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Whatever you do, wherever you go, enjoy the drive.
I love this:
Originally Posted by wanderer65
I find the GT3 very sexy while the cayman very attractive. The GT3 is like a girlfriend while the cayman is a wife.
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