Cayman and Boxster Modifications Discuss modifications to your Cayman or Boxster

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  #1  
Old 07-03-2009, 11:51 PM
Shosholoza's Avatar
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Thumbs up Quaife LSD, GiroDisc brakes

Hey Folks
I have just installed GiroDisc rotors, and a Quaife LSD... looking forward to Homestead on July 18!
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  #2  
Old 02-02-2010, 10:52 AM
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Re: Quaife LSD, GiroDisc brakes

Recalled your post: Reports on performance?
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425-765-1090, www.Rennstore.com --assistance & discussion for your pad selection welcomed
PAGID brake pads - Daytona 24 hr winners in every podium position
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  #3  
Old 02-03-2010, 12:37 AM
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Smile Re: Quaife LSD, GiroDisc brakes

Totally happy with both mods. I have done DE days at Homestead, Sebring (twice), Roebling (twice) and PBIR.

No issues with the brakes overheating or fading at all - great confidence booster
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  #4  
Old 02-03-2010, 06:45 AM
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Re: Quaife LSD, GiroDisc brakes

I have the girodisks. Very nice improvement over stock. Now if I can just get the pedal firmed up I'll be very happy with the brakes
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Old 02-03-2010, 09:22 AM
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Re: Quaife LSD, GiroDisc brakes

Strange - my brake pedal is as solid as a rock. Do you bleed the brakes after track days. I do, and that does firm the pedal up.
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  #6  
Old 02-03-2010, 03:11 PM
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Re: Quaife LSD, GiroDisc brakes

Yep I do. Even with a fresh fluid change I get excessive pedal travel. The car always stops but the pedal is so low I have trouble heel & toeing
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  #7  
Old 02-03-2010, 04:58 PM
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Re: Quaife LSD, GiroDisc brakes

Diverdog,

If you ever figure that out, please let me know. My pedal feels like my Jeep -- pure mush. It has a lot more braking power, but it's still not the way a Porsche pedal should feel.

The older Porsches used to have brakes that felt (and behaved) like real race cars. Very firm, no fade or pedals going soft.

I am "this" close to getting Girodiscs from Craig at Rennstore, Ti shims and TBD (lots of choices with iron rotors!) pads to stop mine from overheating (Yes, PCCBs (at least mine) do that) and the pedal going to the floor.

Our theory is that the iron rotors will be a better heat sink than the ceramics and the Ti shims should keep the heat off the calipers so maybe the pads will not crack and the fluid will not boil. (And this is with SRF!)

I don't see how that will affect the pedal feel at normal temperatures, however. I drove a GT3 briefly and its pedal feel like it should. Now, granted, this was at street speeds, but still it was a LOT more firm than mine.

So if you figure that out, please let me (and others!) know.

Thanks!

Best,

- Mark
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Rare Cayman Cabriolet S in Meteor Gray,
Cocoa top, Cocoa full leather interior, Sport
seats and steering wheel, PCCBs, PSE,
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Last edited by MarkinHouston; 02-03-2010 at 05:00 PM.
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  #8  
Old 02-03-2010, 05:07 PM
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Re: Quaife LSD, GiroDisc brakes

Originally Posted by MarkinHouston View Post
Diverdog,

If you ever figure that out, please let me know. My pedal feels like my Jeep -- pure mush. It has a lot more braking power, but it's still not the way a Porsche pedal should feel.

The older Porsches used to have brakes that felt (and behaved) like real race cars. Very firm, no fade or pedals going soft.

I am "this" close to getting Girodiscs from Craig at Rennstore, Ti shims and TBD (lots of choices with iron rotors!) pads to stop mine from overheating (Yes, PCCBs (at least mine) do that) and the pedal going to the floor.

Our theory is that the iron rotors will be a better heat sink than the ceramics and the Ti shims should keep the heat off the calipers so maybe the pads will not crack and the fluid will not boil. (And this is with SRF!)

I don't see how that will affect the pedal feel at normal temperatures, however. I drove a GT3 briefly and its pedal feel like it should. Now, granted, this was at street speeds, but still it was a LOT more firm than mine.

So if you figure that out, please let me (and others!) know.

Thanks!

Best,

- Mark
OK guys, first thing to help brake pedal firmness is mesh/teflon brake lines. They don't expand like the rubber ones and give a firmer pedal. Second is to get all the air out of your brake system. This may take a few cans of fluid and a vacuum bleeder. There isn't much else to do except put some Pagid Yellows on...they're real firm.

I think the mushy feel is air that hasn't got out of the system. Could be in the ABS. If you can't get it, time for the dealer to work on it.

Or a worn master cylinder might be the cause.

Good luck.
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  #9  
Old 02-03-2010, 05:25 PM
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Re: Quaife LSD, GiroDisc brakes

It is a common problem often discussed here. I had a bad ABS controller, dealer replaced & blead did not fix the mushy pedal. I'm going to look into the hoses. Any recomendations?

I'm using Pagid Yellow on the fronts & black on the rear.The car stops really well, nice initial bite & no fade just mush!

I'm going to have TPC look at it when they do my shocks. They have replaced others master cylenders with a 996 or 997 part.

I'm not familiar with the TI shims. Sounds like a good idea if they are a thermal barrier.
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  #10  
Old 02-03-2010, 06:27 PM
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Re: Quaife LSD, GiroDisc brakes

Ti= titanium, very clever. I never thought about Ti having a low thermal conductivity. Looks like a great way to keep heat out of the calipers. Great to learn new things on this site!

I want to be sure my brakes are in very good order before I add more HP
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  #11  
Old 02-03-2010, 06:33 PM
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Re: Quaife LSD, GiroDisc brakes

And dittos on the GT3 pedal feel. I drove a friends 2010 GT3 and it was night & day
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  #12  
Old 02-04-2010, 08:25 AM
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Re: Quaife LSD, GiroDisc brakes

Asked another way, if you WANTED to design a braking system with a mushy pedal (like many domestic cars, like my Suburban and Jeep) how would you do it?

I am guessing it's a marketing thing -- that some whiz kid marketing MBA right out of school did a survey and found that people (he sure didn't ask me!) prefer a soft pedal. Let's just say that's so, then how did the engineers do it?

Liquids, like brake fluid for example, are not compressible, the master cylinder, unless defective, just pushes the fluid out and into the lines, thence into and through the ABS and more lines and eventually the pistons in the calipers move to squeeze the pads to the rotors. So where is the squish?

Rubber lines that are old and defective could do it, new ones should not. (Do I recall correctly that the Cup car run rubber lines???)

Food for thought...

- Mark

PS: In the search on my car, the master cylinder has been replaced. The ABS unit has not and Porsche doesn't want to throw any more money at it without knowing what it is. And since it won't overheat except on a track and they don't want to hear about that, it remains a mystery. And they claim the mushy pedal is normal for 987/997, not on the GT3/2, though.
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Cocoa top, Cocoa full leather interior, Sport
seats and steering wheel, PCCBs, PSE,
real Cayman 18 inch wheels and a delightful
3.4L engine with a new set of lifters which
seems to have solved the ticking noise.
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  #13  
Old 02-04-2010, 09:44 AM
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Re: Quaife LSD, GiroDisc brakes

MOTIV pressure bleeder - Mark how do you bleed your brakes?
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425-765-1090, www.Rennstore.com --assistance & discussion for your pad selection welcomed
PAGID brake pads - Daytona 24 hr winners in every podium position
GiroDisc brake systems and pad spreaders NOW AVAILABLE!



E-mail for any questions: Rennstore@Comcast.net
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  #14  
Old 02-04-2010, 10:15 AM
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Re: Quaife LSD, GiroDisc brakes

Craig,


I bleed them the old fashioned way.

"Pump 'em up!"

"Okay."

Helper opens bleed valve. Closes it.

"Pump 'em up!"

Etc.

I get no different results from when the dealer does it. And when I say a mushy pedal, I don't mean that it pumps back up. It's just soft. Air (or vapor if it overheats) will let the pedal come back up after a soft initial push. Mine doesn't do that at normal temperatures, so I don't believe I have any air in the system.

When the pedal goes really soft on the track, it comes back after a pump or two on the pedal, so that's vapor. At the calipers, I presume, since that's the source of the heat.

I am thinking the ceramic rotors don't absorb the heat like iron ones and may therefore be transferring more to the pads and then into the calipers. So by using iron as a better heat sink and the Ti shields, maybe we can keep the heat out of the calipers and end the overheating nonsense that shouldn't happen.

- Mark
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Cocoa top, Cocoa full leather interior, Sport
seats and steering wheel, PCCBs, PSE,
real Cayman 18 inch wheels and a delightful
3.4L engine with a new set of lifters which
seems to have solved the ticking noise.
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  #15  
Old 02-04-2010, 10:31 AM
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Re: Quaife LSD, GiroDisc brakes

I use the pressure bleeder, have had the dealer bleed them to after the ABS unit was replaced (it was defective causing many error codes & no ABS) I'm going to try the heat shields as the problem does get worse with the brakes hot. The pedal never really feels right with cold brakes either.
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  #16  
Old 02-04-2010, 03:58 PM
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Re: Quaife LSD, GiroDisc brakes

Now if I can just get the pedal firmed up I'll be very happy with the brakes
Good luck.

I have had the brakes bled at least 5 times. The master cylinder has been replaced as has the accumulator. I won't know if the last go round fixed it until April when I go to Mid-Ohio with OVR. My fingers are crossed.

For those that have not had this problem be thankful. I was able to put my foot on the floor, no room to slide my left toes under the brake pedal.

I think Porsche may have just over boosted the vacuum assist.

The master cylinder alluded to above is the one used in the 997S or Cayman S with the ceramic brakes. Another member did the switch and had good results.

The thing that amazes me is that the new Cayman S cars that are running in the HSR series have had no reported issues.

The Ti shims will help with heat soak into the brake pistons. However, if were me I'd invest that money in the GiroDisc set. You're going to need pads at some point along with rotors. Sometimes the cheapest upgrades are the ones that cost the most the first time.
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  #17  
Old 02-09-2010, 10:44 AM
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Re: Quaife LSD, GiroDisc brakes

A general bit of advice:

ALWAYS use at LEAST Motul RBF600 - NOT ATE Blue/Gold for track use.
*These cars boil brake fluid!*
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Craig
425-765-1090, www.Rennstore.com --assistance & discussion for your pad selection welcomed
PAGID brake pads - Daytona 24 hr winners in every podium position
GiroDisc brake systems and pad spreaders NOW AVAILABLE!



E-mail for any questions: Rennstore@Comcast.net
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  #18  
Old 03-02-2010, 12:48 PM
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Re: Quaife LSD, GiroDisc brakes

Does anyone know who sells the titanium plates and how much they are?

Hoping they will help my problem as well.

Edit: just found them here and ordered http://tispeed.com/
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Old 03-02-2010, 05:52 PM
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Re: Quaife LSD, GiroDisc brakes

Diverdog, I'm about to install four Stainless wrapped, Teflon Goodridge G-stop flexible brake lines. I thought my brakes were a bit mushy also as compared to my BMW 2004 Z4. A defective master cylinder will slowly leak which causes the pedal to slowly go to the floor but wouldn't feel mushy. I'm betting a combination of residual air and the soft brake lines are your problem.
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Old 03-02-2010, 06:02 PM
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Re: Quaife LSD, GiroDisc brakes

Please let us know if the SS lines help at all.
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