Planet 9

**K-Man S** · #1 04-26-2009, 01:00 AM

It has come to my attention this morning that Internet Brands, 6speedonline and its operators consider any photo uploads to their sites to be a placing of the photo into the public domain and that Internet Brands, 6speedonline and associated sites would have the right to do whatever they choose to do with your photo, including giving,trading,selling your photo to some other entity.

Here at PlanetPorsche.Net we consider that opinion and mode of operation to be WRONG and possibly illegal. I want to make sure that there is no confusion over how we operate here so I thought I'd take a few minutes to spell this out for our members.

When you take a photo, you own the copyright in that photo, you've fixed that image into a tangible medium, whether on film or in digital bits and bytes.

When you upload your photo(s) to this website, whether in the gallery or in the forum, it doesn't matter, you STILL retain the copyright in your photo, the act of uploading it does NOT place it into the public domain. Other members or visitors do NOT have the right to take your photo and do something else with it without your permission.

PlanetPorsche.Net has what is sometimes referred to as a "compilation copyright" this means that let's say you post a few photos in a topic thread, people respond, someone else posts a few photos, etc. If some other website were to lift that topic thread and copy it to their website then we at PlanetPorsche.Net could take legal action against them for violating our compilation copyright.

The only time there might ever be a conflict between this site and a member would be if the member wanted to delete their photos that they had previously uploaded. If the photo is part of a compilation, say for example an article, or an extensive topic thread, we (meaning the website) would probably prefer that the photos aren't removed for continuity and thus would try to negotiate a solution with the member that addressed their reasons for removal along with our concern over maintaining the information/continuity that the image was part of. I think this has happened maybe once or twice in the entire existence of this website and we worked it out to everyone's satisfaction.

I want to be VERY CLEAR that we do NOT consider photo uploads to be placing the photo in the public domain where either this website or anyone visiting it could simply do as they please with the photo. I also want to caution our members that if they upload photos to 6speedonline, Rennlist or any site owned by Internet Brands that their photos will not be protected but rather deemed to be in the public domain.

If anyone has any questions about our policies (we do our best to comply with all applicable laws protecting intellectual property) please feel free to send me a PM or email and I will respond accordingly. Rest assured that we are serious about protecting our members and protecting their intellectual property!

**jnscolo** · #2 04-27-2009, 10:20 AM

Ken,

Thanks for this. One follow up scenario I'd like you to comment on to see if I've got this right.

Let's say I take a photo and make a print. I then take that and put it on a light pole (or some other obviously public place.) Although I have chosen to display my image publicly, I have not relinquished my copyright protection. That is, it is not ok for someone else to take my picture and use it for something else without my permission. Where I get hung up (and maybe this is the compliation copyright thing) is if someone else then takes a picture of the telephone pole and my picture and uses it for some other purpose. He made the image in public; may he then distribute it? Does he need my permission for that subset of his image for which I own the copyright?

Second question: what is the other website's argument that anything posted is automatically public domain? If you can't answer, can you provide a link to their logic?

TIA,

jnscolo

**K-Man S** · #3 04-27-2009, 10:53 AM

Originally Posted by jnscolo

Ken,

Thanks for this. One follow up scenario I'd like you to comment on to see if I've got this right.

Let's say I take a photo and make a print. I then take that and put it on a light pole (or some other obviously public place.) Although I have chosen to display my image publicly, I have not relinquished my copyright protection. That is, it is not ok for someone else to take my picture and use it for something else without my permission. Where I get hung up (and maybe this is the compliation copyright thing) is if someone else then takes a picture of the telephone pole and my picture and uses it for some other purpose. He made the image in public; may he then distribute it? Does he need my permission for that subset of his image for which I own the copyright?

Second question: what is the other website's argument that anything posted is automatically public domain? If you can't answer, can you provide a link to their logic?

TIA,

jnscolo

I'm not sure about the lightpole scenario but since the photo was on public display it might be reasonable that someone else would take a picture that included your picture and unless it was on private property controlled by you I'm guessing nothing you could do about that one, although consult an attorney in your state for any actual legal advice on the topic.

I can not find any basis in terms of a user agreement, etc on the other site that uploading automatically places the image in the public domain (certainly they could try to put such language in your user agreement there) but rather it is coming from the administrator of the site that is saying that is their policy. (even if that policy isn't on display).

**PistolPete** · #4 04-27-2009, 12:00 PM

Thanks for making this clear Ken. This is the only Porsche site I'll put my photos up on!

**jnscolo** · #5 04-27-2009, 12:02 PM

Thanks Ken.

beez · #6 04-27-2009, 02:15 PM

Originally Posted by jnscolo

Ken,

Thanks for this. One follow up scenario I'd like you to comment on to see if I've got this right.

Let's say I take a photo and make a print. I then take that and put it on a light pole (or some other obviously public place.) Although I have chosen to display my image publicly, I have not relinquished my copyright protection. That is, it is not ok for someone else to take my picture and use it for something else without my permission. Where I get hung up (and maybe this is the compliation copyright thing) is if someone else then takes a picture of the telephone pole and my picture and uses it for some other purpose. He made the image in public; may he then distribute it? Does he need my permission for that subset of his image for which I own the copyright?

Second question: what is the other website's argument that anything posted is automatically public domain? If you can't answer, can you provide a link to their logic?

TIA,

jnscolo

In your light pole scenario, anyone taking a general view picture while standing on public property, can include your picture in their picture and do anything with their picture that they like. But, you still own the copyright to the picture you took. If they take a picture solely for the purpose of taking a picture of your picture by not including anything else in the picture, then they have violated your copyright. There are many copyrighted forms of media (handbills, posters, even the billboards/video screens in Times Square, for instance) that are part of the public tableau, and while copyrighted pictures can be taken of these, the originators still own the individual copyright. Even if you posted your picture on the side of your house (and thus on private property) someone standing on public property can shoot a picture of your house that includes your picture, and still own the copyright to the resulting picture, because you have posted the picture for display from public property.

The Planet Porsche copyright Ken mentions here is a copyright for the entire contents of the site, including pictures you upload to it. By stating his policy as he does, his copyright is in addition to yours (as the owner of the original work), and does not supersede your rights as the originator of the work itself.

In the instance Ken is talking about, pictures from Planet Porsche were taken from the PP site and posted on the other site without permission from either the originator of the pictures, or the compilation copyright holder - Planet Porsche. For the site's management to argue these are now in the public domain is specious, and if they fail to act and delete the material, it could leave them open to legal action by the copyright holders.

For some reason, the prevailing attitude is that "if it's on the Web, it must be in the public domain," is entirely incorrect. Just because you find a picture on Google Images, or any other site on the Web, doesn't mean it is yours to do with as you please. All these carry the originators' copyrights, unless they are specifically labeled as being in the public domain.

brad

gonzo · #7 04-27-2009, 03:28 PM

Here is 6speedonline's official policy with regards to intellectual property.

Intellectual Property
You represent and warrant that: (i) you own the content posted by you on or through the Site or otherwise have the right to grant the license set forth below, and (ii) the Posting of your content does not violate the privacy rights, publicity rights, copyrights, contract rights or any other rights of any person.
By displaying or posting content on the Site, you hereby grant us a nonexclusive global license to publish the content submitted by you to the Site. You also grant us global nonexclusive adaptation and resale rights over any content and material submitted to the Site. These nonexclusive publishing license and resale/adaptation rights extend to any materials submitted "for publication" within the Site, including both message board postings and content submitted for uploading and subsequent publishing within non-message board portions of the Site. Neither we nor our staff will be responsible for any misleading, false or otherwise injurious information and advice communicated on the Site or for any results obtained from the use of such information or advice. We will not be liable for any loss or damage suffered by a user through the user's reliance on information and advice gained on the Site.

Essentlially, it appears that the person uploading the photograph does not surrender the copyright, but by using their webiste, you are agreeing to grant them a license to use the image. I hope that clears things up a bit. Oh, here is the link to their policy. http://www.internetbrands.com/ib/ter...peedonline.com

beez · #8 04-27-2009, 04:13 PM

Originally Posted by gonzo

Here is 6speedonline's official policy with regards to intellectual property.

Intellectual Property
You represent and warrant that: (i) you own the content posted by you on or through the Site or otherwise have the right to grant the license set forth below, and (ii) the Posting of your content does not violate the privacy rights, publicity rights, copyrights, contract rights or any other rights of any person.
By displaying or posting content on the Site, you hereby grant us a nonexclusive global license to publish the content submitted by you to the Site. You also grant us global nonexclusive adaptation and resale rights over any content and material submitted to the Site. These nonexclusive publishing license and resale/adaptation rights extend to any materials submitted "for publication" within the Site, including both message board postings and content submitted for uploading and subsequent publishing within non-message board portions of the Site. Neither we nor our staff will be responsible for any misleading, false or otherwise injurious information and advice communicated on the Site or for any results obtained from the use of such information or advice. We will not be liable for any loss or damage suffered by a user through the user's reliance on information and advice gained on the Site.

Essentlially, it appears that the person uploading the photograph does not surrender the copyright, but by using their webiste, you are agreeing to grant them a license to use the image. I hope that clears things up a bit. Oh, here is the link to their policy. Site Terms

The way this reads, you are giving them the right to use the image on their site, but it also seems that uploading content to their site gives them the nonexclusive right to adapt (I'm assuming this means use in compound or derivative images or works) and/or resell your uploaded content (I'm assuming for their profit not yours) to anyone for any purpose worldwide. While you still retain the copyright, they can basically adapt (ie: Photoshop your image into another or several) and sell that, or your your original image worldwide. Given this policy, why anyone would upload any sort of copyright-able content - pictures, etc. to their site is beyond me.

In the paragraph above the "intellectual property" notice, it also states:

Content on the Site
The material on this Site is protected by copyright, trademark, and other applicable laws. You may not modify, copy, reproduce, republish, upload, post, transmit, publicly display, prepare derivative works based on, or distribute in any way any material from the Site, including but not limited to text, audio, video, code and software.

So, while you can't do anything with any content on their site (although later they say certain items can be used for personal use) they are free to modify, adapt, republish or sell your uploaded content as they see fit.

Nice...

brad

Okv · #9 04-27-2009, 04:25 PM

Originally Posted by K-Man S

It has come to my attention this morning that Internet Brands, 6speedonline and its operators consider any photo uploads to their sites to be a placing of the photo into the public domain and that Internet Brands, 6speedonline and associated sites would have the right to do whatever they choose to do with your photo, including giving,trading,selling your photo to some other entity.
...

From Internetbrands "Site Terms", which includes Rennlist:

"Intellectual Property

You represent and warrant that: (i) you own the content posted by you on or through the Site or otherwise have the right to grant the license set forth below, and (ii) the Posting of your content does not violate the privacy rights, publicity rights, copyrights, contract rights or any other rights of any person.

By displaying or posting content on the Site, you hereby grant us a nonexclusive global license to publish the content submitted by you to the Site. You also grant us global nonexclusive adaptation and resale rights over any content and material submitted to the Site. These nonexclusive publishing license and resale/adaptation rights extend to any materials submitted "for publication" within the Site, including both message board postings and content submitted for uploading and subsequent publishing within non-message board portions of the Site."

This has become a problem on several sites now, I just removed some pictures from Facebook.
I take it most people just don't care, or, most likely, they are not aware.

Thank you, K-Man S.

gonzo · #10 04-27-2009, 04:33 PM

Although we may find their policies detestable, they do inform their users what the policies are. I think most people do not read the fine print or do not care. If you want to retain control of how your images are used, the best advice is not to post them on websites with these types of policies. Forewarned is forearmed.

beez · #11 04-27-2009, 04:36 PM

Originally Posted by gonzo

Although we may find their policies detestable, they do inform their users what the policies are. I think most people do not read the fine print or do not care. If you want to retain control of how your images are used, the best advice is not to post them on websites with these types of policies. Forewarned is forearmed.

You are exactly correct.

brad

JML42 · #12 04-27-2009, 04:36 PM

I know this is a bit off topic, but since we have attorneys here with expert advice, let’s say if a neighbor has a security camera on their property and the aim lines up and captures a window of your home, and if your window blinds are open is this considered intrusion of privacy? Can you do anything legally to stop them from aiming the camera at your window? Thanks.

gonzo · #13 04-27-2009, 05:10 PM

Originally Posted by JML42

I know this is a bit off topic, but since we have attorneys here with expert advice, let’s say if a neighbor has a security camera on their property and the aim lines up and captures a window of your home, and if your window blinds are open is this considered intrusion of privacy? Can you do anything legally to stop them from aiming the camera at your window? Thanks.

That is an area that probably varies by state. Check your private messages.

**bwass24** · #14 04-27-2009, 05:11 PM

I am not even close to being a lawyer but it doesn't look to me like "they" are saying that by uploading to their site you are placing your content in the public domain. I read it as saying that you are giving THEM--not the general public, license to do with it as they please. Putting it in the public domain would mean that ANYONE--not just them-- could do with it as they pleased.

Nitro8472 · #15 04-27-2009, 06:43 PM

Thanks Ken, I do like the terms here better

Originally Posted by Okv

This has become a problem on several sites now, I just removed some pictures from Facebook.
I take it most people just don't care, or, most likely, they are not aware.

Thank you, K-Man S.

Wait a sec, what's the problem with facebook? Do they have similar terms?

**K-Man S** · #16 04-27-2009, 07:31 PM

Originally Posted by bwass24

I am not even close to being a lawyer but it doesn't look to me like "they" are saying that by uploading to their site you are placing your content in the public domain. I read it as saying that you are giving THEM--not the general public, license to do with it as they please. Putting it in the public domain would mean that ANYONE--not just them-- could do with it as they pleased.

I know that's what their intellectual property statement says, but that isn't what their administrator/moderators are saying. Either the policy has changed unofficially in their view, or their administrators/moderators aren't aware of or following their own rules. I don't see either as a positive, and like Brad I don't know why anyone would upload something to their sites and give a license freely like that. If they get to do basically whatever they want with your materials, shouldn't you get something in return? Take for example our calendar contest, we always get consent from the image owners to using the images in the calendar which brings in a few $ (not much after the mailing I'm afraid) for the site. If this were those other sites we could just do it and thumb our nose at the original owners because they'd given us a license. Personally, I'd rather ask and get consent so that someone has an opportunity to say no than just use something of someone elses and try to point to some obscure clause in the user agreement. It's about respect after all...

Okv · #17 04-27-2009, 07:40 PM

Originally Posted by Nitro8472

Wait a sec, what's the problem with facebook? Do they have similar terms?

Just something I read somewhere, I did not verify, I just removed my pictures.

I don't need to have my pictures of the Big Mountains and skiing on Facebook, so better to remove it right away.
There are other, safe, places to go instead, where I have posted articles as well as pictures.

Sites run by amateurs and entusiasts are usually safe.

**K-Man S** · #18 04-27-2009, 08:41 PM

Did you know that Facebook sells your information to collection agencies trying to track down people? I had this agency trying to track down this guy I knew in college calling me trying to reach him. They him on my friends list and somehow got my phone # and started calling looking for him.

Nitro8472 · #19 04-28-2009, 06:47 AM

Obviously some info needs to be removed from FB

CSDriver · #20 04-28-2009, 03:04 PM

Originally Posted by K-Man S

Did you know that Facebook sells your information to collection agencies trying to track down people? I had this agency trying to track down this guy I knew in college calling me trying to reach him. They him on my friends list and somehow got my phone # and started calling looking for him.

Very creepy. Mine is coming down after my 20th H.S. reunion.