Planet 9

Just returned from Las Vegas Motorspeedway, a disappointing outing with the Cayman S.
Every lap would result in a massive amount of smoke and a dash lighting up like a winning slot machine!
The smoke was so heavy that I couldn't do a second lap. (Black flagged)

Yes, I had checked my oil levels to be sure they weren't overfilled.
Ultimately I had to pack it in.

Aren't these cars supposed to have a "racing heritage"? I can't comfortably use this car for a DE now. Anybody else experiencing this?

thnks

bb

You need the MantisSort Extended Baffled Sump.............

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Cheers Karel



'Power is Nothing - Without Control..........'

See the prior topic threads discussing oil ingestion, breather tubes, etc. and the solutions from Mantis Sport, etc. It happens under certain conditions with even the recommended amount of oil in the engine, I think the condition is a sudden decel followed by a left hand turn followed by a right hand turn, but I may have the sequence wrong. It is harmless stuff but irritating nonetheless...

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K-Man S

I've had the same problem but usually after the session is over and the cars been sitting with the engine off, when you restart you get a cloud of white smoke. Do a search on the forum, cos I know I've seen this before here, I even think there's a solution with some form of oil baffle system from Motordrive or something. Never happened to me on track and I was never blackflagged. Was it a road course or an Oval? I could see the sustained G's on an Oval causing this.

G.

What lights on the instrument panel were lighting up?

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2006 Cayman S Tiptronic (Year-round Daily Driver & Part-time Track Toy)
Mods: SRP, DREAM-1, VentureShield, Xpel Headlamp shields, 35% Tint, MotorDrive Front Mesh Grills, Bumperplugs..
Track Prep: Pagid Yellows, Champion RS98s/NT05s, Deka ETX14 Battery, CG-Lock, Extinguisher, Rennline towhook, BBI Harness/Rollbar

Happens to me on a hard decel and then a hard left hand turn. There is no cure that I know of. My CEL light would come on and off. I have the Sump extension from Mantis Sport - it helps but is not a cure. Ernie at Mantis Sport was working on a solution at one point but nothing as of yet that I know of. They did come up with a cure for their racing Cayman but it took up the entire rear section of the car if I remember right.

please explain to me, are you guys saying that i need to spend money on mods to get the car run on track??

Its an intermittent problem for me and I never get the christmas lights so in my case, I would say no. Just a little smoke thats only scary if you don't know why its happening.

G

Here are some pictures of the BB smokescreen I was following him at the time. The common thread here is rapid decel and hard left. Well, we were slowing from about 140 mph to nearly 0 to navigate a tight left and continuing left to get going on the infield course.

Oddly enough, my car did not exhibit the problem, even though I was going almost as fast through the same course. I have had smoke come out at SOW going CCW through the tight left hand 180 after the downhill front straight (through the skidpad), but no CEL ever came on.

Gave me some worries about track readiness also, but mine is still holding up.

Hope you figure it out, BB.

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By the way, here is the cockpit view of the 21 degree banked turn at the end of the LV SW oval that we did before the back straight and the subsequent decel and left. It was a hoot

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You guys are ready for NASCAR!

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K-Man S

I went out to LVMS and watched the time trials on Saturday, and yes, they used a large portion of the high-banked oval - I don't recall seeing Bodine run, but I watched Naybor run and didn't see any oil clouds from his car...

Hey Naybor - it was great to meet you, btw...

brad

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For me I have this problem when high reving, in a high g turn. I can make it go away, by staying in a higher gear in the same turn. Its more than smoke, the engine begins to bog down. I am afraid of hydro-locking the engine or cracking a piston.

I also have a huge smoke plume, when I start the car after it sits. Also, if you spin the car left, the smoke is really heavy.

I already have all the Mantis parts installed AND I run the oil on the bottom mark. But I still have the problem.

To solve the problem we just replaced the oil separator with a 2 chamber Porsche Motor Sport oil separator. (p/n 996 107 926 00) Its the same oil separator that is on Porsche factory race cars. While, its a perfect fit, its a real hassle to get one and to install. You have to modify the blower mount and reroute the wiring harness. Its a full day install job. Also, Porsche dealers cannot order the part, its not even in their computer. You have to know someone with access to order Porsche Motor Sport parts.

I have the car in the shop this weekend installing more goodies. I'll report back on he results after the next track outing in a couple of weeks. But I am pretty confident that this will solve the problem.

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CaymanS Track Videos
2004 996GT3 / 1999 Boxster Spec Race Car / 2007 CaymanS Track Car (Modified with parts from: 997GT3, 997GT3RS, 9967GT3, Porsche Motorsport, Tarrett, Mantis, Arlan, APRacing, Moton, Eibach, Tubi, Aasco, Quaife, TCDesign, Heigo, Fikse, Softronic,TeamTech, Traqmate, ChaseCam, Pagid, Rennline, SV Tek)

Yes, Kman S, it was very NASCAR, but without the intense traffic and about 30 mph or more slower. I was going through the banked sweeper at about 135mph and I am sure if I did it without fear, it could have been a bit faster. Mind you, my times were about 1:30 with an average speed for the 2.4 mile track of about 96 mph. The fastest POC members there, with GT cup cars were getting around at 1:16 or less. WOW! NASCAR doesn't get to have the fun of including the infield track with the oval.

I have to say, the feeling through the banked sweeper was incredible. Like flying or like falling, but what a rush.

beez, thanks for finding me. It was fun meeting you too. My son couldn't figure out why someone came up to me and asked "are you Naybor?".

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Life is not a rehearsal

Speedventures in Socal sometimes run the Roval at the California Speedway which is half the banked oval and most of the infield course. Its pretty terrifying but we would hit the bank at close to 145mph. On the far side of the bank theres a small straight and then a sharp left to the infield. Big braking and just where the check brae light came on. Brown trousers time all round.

DustyMcBackwards does the Cal Speedway!

I don't want to sound like i'm having a hissy fit here, but these are Porsche cars not Dodge Caravans. Should we be expecting to add aftermarket parts just to complete a lap of DE?

Am I expecting too much from a Porsche?

Some thoughts...

I would feel exactly the same way if I were you. A Porsche should be able to do a DE.

But, I have not seen the big Q yet. Are you running R compound tires? The manual says that they can give you too much grip and cause oil issues.

With PS2s...

My 2.7 never did this at Thunderhill, Laguna, Infineon, or Reno-Fernley.

I have only tracked my 3.4 at Laguna...again , no issue. Maybe I am not proficient enough yet to push the car hard enough to have an issue.

Anytime there has been another cayman at the track, I have paid close attention and none have had this problem *that I was aware of*.

But I know that the issue exists. I will have my 3.4 in some pretty hardcore action at Thunderhill over the next month or so, so I will see what happens.

Hopefully, your case is one of just the right set of moves in the wrong order...and it won't be an issue at other tracks. Maybe you need a GT3? I am not being a smart ***. I would be as pissed off as you are...but could the Cayman be unsuitable for the levels you are looking to achieve?

Hopefully it can do what you need it to do.

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2007 Speed Yellow Cayman GT 2.7 (retired)
2008 Guards Red Cayman GT 3.4
"Carpe Cayman"

In my opinion Porsche engines of the 986/996 design are not idealy suited for track duty due to the lack of a true dry sump among some other oiling issues. Many of these engines have been tracked sucessfully, without incident, however modifications can minimize the known oiling issues. You can look to the Koni series cars for ideas in addition to the commercially available aids.

Although Porsche has a long history in motorsports, the majority of Porsche owners do not "track" their cars. When designing the 996/986 series, cost reduction was important, and lead the the current less expensive engines than the 964 based engines (that are in the 996/7 GT2,3, turbo.) Now, I am not saying that the 964 based engines do not have problems, they do, but generally they are not related to track use.

Porsche knew about the oiling issues as early in 1999, and recommended that R compound tires not be used on the 986 and 996.

At the DE's that I attend it is very common to see the 98X/99X engines smoke on start up, as well to see those engines give a puff of smoke on left handed turns. Even with excessive smoking, they continue to run well. Some say the issue is the oil/air sep., others state the pan needs to be baffled, still some state a deeper pan is the solution. One of my friend's 996 is one of the worse offenders for smoking, we joke with him that he is just using the smoke screen as an excuse that he can't see us in his mirrors. Conversly, I have had oil on my windshield from many "vintage" 911s.

Todays Porsches (non GTs) although from a handling and braking standpoint far exceede their air-cooled brothers, are not designed for track use.

I used to track a 944, after losing two engines in two years due to oiling issues (the 944 does not have a dry sump), I chose to track a 993 over the 99x/98x series. Don't get me wrong, I love my CS, I am just waiting for someone to drop a GT3 3.6 into one.

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2007 Cayman S
2008 Cayenne Turbo
2002 Carrera Cab
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1984 944 The former track car

former

2004 Cayenne S

While I agree generally with your post above - the new motors, for a variety of reasons, are not as ideally suited for track use as the motors based on the older split case models... PAG's admonition about track tire use, does not mention R-compound tires... they specifically call out the use of slicks as something they'll not accept warranty claims from...

Page 2 of the 2006 CS owner's manual:

The fitting of racing tires (e.g. slicks) for sporting
events is not approved by Porsche. Very high cornering
speeds can be achieved with racing tires.
However, the resulting transverse acceleration
values would jeopardize the adequate supply of oil
to the engine.
Porsche therefore will not accept any warranty or
accept any liability for damage occurring as a result
of non-compliance with this provision.

brad

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PCA DE Instructor

Lets all keep in mind that this is also a problem on the 996 and 997. Except the GT3, GT2 and Turbo.

I never had any problem with my car with stock suspension and stock tires.

The Cayman shows the problem more than the others, because the car acheives .25 PLUS more lateral G's than the normal 997.
This is not because the car has a special problem. Its because the handling is too good for the engine pollution control device design.

Yes the factory knows about the oil ingestion problem and so do many dealers. I was warned that this would happen as soon as I lowered the car and installed Hoosiers. So I knew what I was getting into. Maybe I was hoping they were wrong or that my car was 'special'. But having to fix this problem is something I was expecting.

This is not unlike buying a GT3 or RS and having to change all the factory settings and bushings to make it a track car. This is just more of a hassle AND the Cayman is so new that there are NO diffusion of experts that can fix it immediately, like there is on the 997.

In fact, the oil seperator that I installed on the Cayman was recommended by someone that had the same problem on a 997 3.8x51 conversion that had a near perfect setup, and could pull some lateral Gs close to my Cayman. Its a 10min fix on a 997. But a 10 hour fix on a Cayman, because the wiring harness and smog blower have to be moved out of the way.

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CaymanS Track Videos
2004 996GT3 / 1999 Boxster Spec Race Car / 2007 CaymanS Track Car (Modified with parts from: 997GT3, 997GT3RS, 9967GT3, Porsche Motorsport, Tarrett, Mantis, Arlan, APRacing, Moton, Eibach, Tubi, Aasco, Quaife, TCDesign, Heigo, Fikse, Softronic,TeamTech, Traqmate, ChaseCam, Pagid, Rennline, SV Tek)