Planet 9

thunderball · #1 06-29-2009, 11:05 AM

The cayman S has exceeded my expectations with how much joy it is to drive and the overall satisfaction I have for this car is very high, I do however have a huge problem in principle with the way porsche sets up the service light and any one buying a cayman should know this.
Every 24 months for the life of the car this little message comes on and you have to pay your dealer to service your car. I understand that every dealer is different but braman motorcars in wpb won't turn the light off without doing the full $550 service because of "liability".
So PCNA has basically set it up so you cant maintain your own car that you have bought that you own with out additional expense or youll be looking at the service message. Talk about trying to keep dealers in business doing service work.So I have a choice---spend $1600 on the durametrics or $550 on an oil change and some filter cks which is anything that someone with an ounce of common sense can look at. There is NOTHING they do for 550 that I can't and do do on a reg basis. Ive built cars and raced cars and I don't really want anyone doing my service work.
I had no idea about this when I bought the car last year but I was aware and ready thanx to all the members sharing their experiances on here. I just think it is wrong and really sours owning such a spectacular car. So flame away....

chris.

**Tess Tickle** · #2 06-29-2009, 11:28 AM

I'm sure you can get it turned off with a OBDII reader, see if any member here has one local to you.....then it could be, job done !!
Some similar threads:

http://www.planetporsche.net/cayman-...ent-panel.html

http://www.planetporsche.net/cayman-...e-16-days.html

thunderball · #3 06-29-2009, 11:45 AM

Thanx Tess. I don't believe it's just obd compatible... it would be an early xmas if it was! I've understood it was more complicated than that......

**blueone** · #4 06-29-2009, 11:45 AM

The Durametric kit is only $287.

Gator Bite · #5 06-29-2009, 12:06 PM

Originally Posted by blueone

The Durametric kit is only $287.

Correct. See: Porsche Diagnostic Store | Durametric Software Products for Sale

Or, if you ever decide to buy a Softronic package, you can get the cable and license nearly free.

Lot's of cars have these reminders. I don't like them either, but as long as there's a way around the reminder I'm not going to worry too much. Not to mention, it's not a bad idea to take the car to the dealer once every two years. Sometimes they have updates or service campaigns to apply.

I turn my own wrenches, then take my car in for an annual check up, to do the service minus all of the things I did myself (oil change, air filter, pollen filter, etc....)

Abaco24 · #6 06-29-2009, 03:58 PM

$22.92 per month seems fair to me for piece of mind when owning a Porsche. Other threads also show the cost varies widely between dealers.

jhthornley · #7 06-29-2009, 05:06 PM

Unless I'm missing something obvious, the "answer" to your problem is the Durametric...

Now, I'm a "noob" on this site (3? months), but know it is less than $300 (for the 3 vehicle version).

I know everyone's first reaction is to get pissed, but take a step back and search first.

**K-Man S** · #8 06-29-2009, 08:23 PM

While I recommend the Durametric approach as well, I thought it was illegal for an automaker to sell a car in the U.S. that REQUIRED a trip to that maker's dealership for repairs or service (Independent shops sued or got some law passed, etc.) unless it was for a specific safety item that could only be serviced at the maker's facility. Since this is just a reminder message that your 2 years service is due and the 2 year service has no safety component that cannot be performed elsewhere, it would seem to be illegal for the Porsche dealership to require you to spend $ to turn the message off. I haven't researched this law or lack thereof in case I'm not understanding what I was told correctly, but if you are going to spend $500+ might as well spend it on an attorney to do some research, maybe some starving law school student could do it for you on the side.

**Santa Fe** · #9 06-29-2009, 08:42 PM

Jeeze, people want a golden Porsche warranty (and some even want to avoid detection of modifications and still have that golden warranty) but want to deny them the right to encourage proper maintenance. Auto makers have found out that there are lots of people who lease but do not maintain, buy but cannot afford to maintain, lie about "self service" and try to stick them with the bill when things go wrong. Porsche is not alone so don't pick on them. Show the dealer that you have the receipts for the oil, filter and so on. Pay for a check of the other things. Let them record your ECU and establish a history for the car. Be thankful you have a company that will pay for their mistakes and be prepared to pay for yours.

**blueone** · #10 06-29-2009, 08:52 PM

Originally Posted by K-Man S

While I recommend the Durametric approach as well, I thought it was illegal for an automaker to sell a car in the U.S. that REQUIRED a trip to that maker's dealership for repairs or service (Independent shops sued or got some law passed, etc.) unless it was for a specific safety item that could only be serviced at the maker's facility. Since this is just a reminder message that your 2 years service is due and the 2 year service has no safety component that cannot be performed elsewhere, it would seem to be illegal for the Porsche dealership to require you to spend $ to turn the message off. I haven't researched this law or lack thereof in case I'm not understanding what I was told correctly, but if you are going to spend $500+ might as well spend it on an attorney to do some research, maybe some starving law school student could do it for you on the side.

You're referring to the Magnuson-Moss Act. Because Porsche technically does allow independent service companies to buy the equipment to reset the indicator, albeit at substantial cost, I would guess they skirt the law. But unlike you I'm not an attorney, so what do I know?

Porsche is not alone in requiring some sort of instrument to reset the indicator; BMW does too, for example. My Benz allows you to reset it with a secret sequence of button pushing, but I don't have the latest generation car. The easiest were my Corvettes - it was in the owners manual how to reset it.

**blueone** · #11 06-29-2009, 08:53 PM

Originally Posted by Santa Fe

Jeeze, people want a golden Porsche warranty (and some even want to avoid detection of modifications and still have that golden warranty) but want to deny them the right to encourage proper maintenance. Auto makers have found out that there are lots of people who lease but do not maintain, buy but cannot afford to maintain, lie about "self service" and try to stick them with the bill when things go wrong. Porsche is not alone so don't pick on them. Show the dealer that you have the receipts for the oil, filter and so on. Pay for a check of the other things. Let them record your ECU and establish a history for the car. Be thankful you have a company that will pay for their mistakes and be prepared to pay for yours.

Would you like to borrow my avatar?

ARCuhTEK · #12 06-30-2009, 09:17 AM

I paid $180 for my oil change and filter checks at 12k miles. $550

racerboy · #13 06-30-2009, 10:25 AM

I think one could argue that this requirement to have reset done by an auto shop (dealer or independent) constitutes a contract of adhesion.

fmarshall · #14 06-30-2009, 04:05 PM

Originally Posted by racerboy

I think one could argue that this requirement to have reset done by an auto shop (dealer or independent) constitutes a contract of adhesion.

It's not just Porsche that has this feature.

Pint of Brew · #15 07-01-2009, 08:55 AM

While I don't agree that Porsche charges a fair price for a service check-up, I absolutely agree that they're not obliged to honour their warranty if you roll your own services. If you're happy to forfeit warranty I see no reason they shouldn't remove the code. Strictly speaking, if you've driven past the service-by indication you may be out of warranty already, anyway.

I have every confidence you're fully capable of maintaining your own car, but a manufacturer should not have to enter the discussion of whether or not you're qualified enough to be trusted with a warranty.

Understand that I'm not in any way trying to insult or demean you, but Porsche charge thousands of dollars to train technicians for the job you just did to your car, and there's probably more to their training than what you inspected. It's unreasonable to expect them to honour a warranty when they can't be 100% certain of what was done in the maintenance.

Think that's half bad, though? A colleague of mine had an old 7-series, which when driven past its service date contacted the dealer with an (internal modem? radio signal? mind control?) and the dealer called his mobile 10m later inquiring why he hadn't had service yet!

**blueone** · #16 07-01-2009, 09:56 AM

Originally Posted by Pint of Brew

While I don't agree that Porsche charges a fair price for a service check-up, I absolutely agree that they're not obliged to honour their warranty if you roll your own services. If you're happy to forfeit warranty I see no reason they shouldn't remove the code. Strictly speaking, if you've driven past the service-by indication you may be out of warranty already, anyway.

I have every confidence you're fully capable of maintaining your own car, but a manufacturer should not have to enter the discussion of whether or not you're qualified enough to be trusted with a warranty.

Understand that I'm not in any way trying to insult or demean you, but Porsche charge thousands of dollars to train technicians for the job you just did to your car, and there's probably more to their training than what you inspected. It's unreasonable to expect them to honour a warranty when they can't be 100% certain of what was done in the maintenance.

Think that's half bad, though? A colleague of mine had an old 7-series, which when driven past its service date contacted the dealer with an (internal modem? radio signal? mind control?) and the dealer called his mobile 10m later inquiring why he hadn't had service yet!

You're entitled to your opinion, of course, and I'm not arguing with its logical validity, but in the US (the OP is flying a US flag) it is against the law to make warranty claims for consumer products dependent on specific service providers. (Interestingly, it is not illegal for commercial / industrial products, and legal service monopolies are sources of incredible profit margins.)

Special K · #17 07-01-2009, 10:10 AM

Originally Posted by blueone

Would you like to borrow my avatar?

+1

stiles_s · #18 07-01-2009, 07:16 PM

Originally Posted by fmarshall

It's not just Porsche that has this feature.

I agree w/this, but just wanted to add one more data point.

I do my own oil changes on the "light service" mileage points w/all our cars.

Our Lexus GX, for example, has a "service required" light that comes on every 5k miles, even though this is above & beyond factory service recommendations. Our Audi S4 does this too. Of note, both these cars have ways for the user to turn off this indicator themselves, without any additional tools. It's buried in both of the owners' manuals, but it's there. As far as I can tell, Porsche doesn't offer the same function for its US customers. Sad and frustrating.

One interesting note is that this warning is "US only". Somehow these car manufacturers have convinced the government to allow them to harrass us to generate additional service revenue for the dealer.

Anyone thinks there's a chance that Porsche has a magic way to reset these indicators as well? In both our Audi & Lexus, they are along the lines of "turn the ignition switch ON while standing on your head and yodeling". Annoying, but hey -- it works.

**shakeypics** · #19 07-01-2009, 07:54 PM

Sorry, little hi-jack.. I mentioned a while ago about the same kinda dilema, 1st service warning coming on. I do not do my oil changes so I have no issue going in and getting things done.

But according to the manual I didn't require a oil/filter change last year when I parked it for the winter from mileage or on time, but it recommends and so do the dealers to change the oil if it's being stored, which it was, so I did, mid November 08, 1st ever oil change @ 6k klms.

Now I have the 1st service due which calls for oil/filter and 15 point inspection but my oil is only 4k klm old and with me storing it in the late fall again that would be 3 oil changes in a year, friggin stupid.

So I asked 3 different dealers their take on my situation, got 3 different answers. The one guy said he'd clear the service reminder and do it in the fall when I store it, he's the closest and did the first oil change. The other two listed different service items to be done, one was by the book the other was oil change only, no inspection.

Worried about any warranty issues I called PNA and explained why I wanted to hold off. Felt I did not really need 3 oil changes in 12 months and was given the blessing to prolong the 1st service until the fall. Should I take someone's word over the phone from PNA that pushing the first service back 4-4.5 months won't void any warranty work if needed? suggestions if any appreciated. THANKS.....

**Santa Fe** · #20 07-01-2009, 08:17 PM

All dealers are independent companies. They can charge what the market will take for service and play games with the service suggestion light. The service writer is usually the lowest guy on the food chain in the dealership so don't rely on his advice alone. The dealers have only a small voice when it comes to Porsche's warranty coverage. They can act as an advocate but rarely have a voice in a denial.

Warranty issues are not handled by the independent dealer and common sense says that what your answer is from PNA is reliable.