Planet 9

**Lucky 6** · #1 04-17-2008, 12:11 AM

I recently replaced my pads on my CS. The original setup included shims between the caliper pistons and the back of the pads. I have lost the fronts but put the rears on, causing what seems like rear brake bias.

My question is, is it okay/better to go without any of these shims since they are not attatched to the pistons now anyways, or should i have all the shims replaced?

**Atlas_Croc** · #2 04-17-2008, 07:02 AM

The "shims" are there to prevent noise, and shouldn't have anything to do with any braking bias,.....whether there or not. Yes, I would use new ones everytime the pads are replaced. A little bit of money, but Porsche put them there for a reason.

***DaveN007*** · #3 04-17-2008, 09:09 AM

Originally Posted by Atlas_Croc

The "shims" are there to prevent noise, and shouldn't have anything to do with any braking bias,.....whether there or not. Yes, I would use new ones everytime the pads are replaced. A little bit of money, but Porsche put them there for a reason.

They didn't put them in my 2.7 in the rear. So I didn't install the "replacements" I bought when I did my first pad change. They never squealed. So go figure. Probably more vital in the fronts?

Mr_Brown · #4 04-17-2008, 09:41 AM

The OEM shims do reduce noice but I prefer weltmeister anti-squeal liners for street use. They are far cheaper than OEM shims and they make track pad swaps easy because they don't protrude into pistons. I don't use any shims for track pads. Whatever you do, don't use traditional anti-squeal brake goo on Porsche brakes.

**Atlas_Croc** · #5 04-17-2008, 09:43 AM

Originally Posted by DaveN007

They didn't put them in my 2.7 in the rear. So I didn't install the "replacements" I bought when I did my first pad change. They never squealed. So go figure. Probably more vital in the fronts?

Strange. Every Porsche model that I have seen either has them on all four corners, or none. Maybe the Cayman / CS is a first. Given that braking is front biased, I would assume they are more vital there.

**Lucky 6** · #6 04-17-2008, 11:45 AM

Originally Posted by Mr_Brown

The OEM shims do reduce noice but I prefer weltmeister anti-squeal liners for street use. They are far cheaper than OEM shims and they make track pad swaps easy because they don't protrude into pistons. I don't use any shims for track pads. Whatever you do, don't use traditional anti-squeal brake goo on Porsche brakes.

two questions though...does porsche make a "goo" i can use or do you think the liners are best?

will this solution be effective with ceramics pads? these are what i use for street.

thanks,
andy

**STLPCA** · #7 04-17-2008, 12:32 PM

Originally Posted by Mr_Brown

Whatever you do, don't use traditional anti-squeal brake goo on Porsche brakes.

Really? Why not?

I've used ATE Plastilube, Wurth's Disc Brake Anti-Squeak Spray, or Permatex Disc Brake Quiet for many, many years on my Porsche's and other cars without a hint of any issue on the street, or on the track.

***DaveN007*** · #8 04-17-2008, 12:53 PM

Originally Posted by Atlas_Croc

Strange. Every Porsche model that I have seen either has them on all four corners, or none. Maybe the Cayman / CS is a first. Given that braking is front biased, I would assume they are more vital there.

It could have been a manufacturing error. Who knows. They are supposed to be there.

MikeR · #9 04-17-2008, 01:05 PM

Originally Posted by STLPCA

Really? Why not?

I've used ATE Plastilube, Wurth's Disc Brake Anti-Squeak Spray, or Permatex Disc Brake Quiet for many, many years on my Porsche's and other cars without a hint of any issue on the street, or on the track.

It can get real messy. You would notice if you washed your car.

**Atlas_Croc** · #10 04-17-2008, 02:33 PM

Originally Posted by Lucky 6

two questions though...does porsche make a "goo" i can use or do you think the liners are best?

will this solution be effective with ceramics pads? these are what i use for street.

thanks,
andy

IMO the liners work the best, but anti-squeal paste aka: "goo" will work also.

A trick I have done in the past is to carefully remove the liners from the old brake pads.....you can do it with a razor blade. If they are in good shape you can re-use them by using a little anti-squeal past to afix them to the new pads.

Tomasz · #11 04-23-2008, 10:56 PM

Originally Posted by DaveN007

They didn't put them in my 2.7 in the rear. So I didn't install the "replacements" I bought when I did my first pad change. They never squealed. So go figure. Probably more vital in the fronts?

There are backing plates, that seem to attach to the caliper and are metal. My 2.7 only has them in the front. When swapping pads they do not come out, and they are not a part of the pad. Pads themselves, front and rear have a shim glued to it. That shim seems to be made of metal - very thin, and covered with some softer compound.

You can tear it off the pad, and try sticking it on new pads. But I would assume that new OEM pads would already come with it glued on. I do not know that.

So, backing plates and pad shims are different. I do not know what should be used with pagid Pads, I am shimless in front and rear, but front has the backing plates.

I am more concerned with uniform contact between the piston and the back of the pad, which in case of the pagid has round dimples in it. Same as the OEM pad, but they are covered with the shim...

So, shims or no shims? Can one get them independently?

**Craig@Rennstore.com** · #12 04-28-2008, 02:17 PM

Pagid Sporst have the noise shims attached - and I now carry them, in stock.

Order up Oranges (same prices) and specify in the comment section you wish the SPORTS -

Mr_Brown · #13 04-29-2008, 07:57 AM

Originally Posted by Craig@Rennstore.com

Pagid Sporst have the noise shims attached - and I now carry them, in stock.

Order up Oranges (same prices) and specify in the comment section you wish the SPORTS -

My experience is that the shims on the back of the Pagid Sport Blues are not enough to eliminate noise. The OEM pads have the same type of shims but the vibration dameners are used in addition to the shims in the OEM application.

I suggested to not use the goo to avoid the mess. I also seem to remember reading somewhere that Porsche advises against the goo because of it's effect on the rubber surrounding the pistons. Now if you are just using the goo to re-attach a vibration damper, I think that's probably OK.

Here's my suggestion; If you are going to swap pads for track days, use Weltmeister liners on your street pads. If you are not doing any pad swapping, use the OEM vibration dampers to minimize noise.

**Craig@Rennstore.com** · #14 04-29-2008, 08:59 AM

If you can fit the dampers to the Sports, add 'em back on -
AFAIK, the goo is not to be used as an adhesive to attach things (?)

**STLPCA** · #15 04-29-2008, 10:46 AM

Originally Posted by Mr_Brown

I suggested to not use the goo to avoid the mess. I also seem to remember reading somewhere that Porsche advises against the goo because of it's effect on the rubber surrounding the pistons. Now if you are just using the goo to re-attach a vibration damper, I think that's probably OK.

What "goo" are you referring to? Properly applied, the products I referenced create no "mess."
I'd be interested in reading whatever you read "somewhere." The specialty brake products I referenced above are absolutely compatible with the rubber seals.
+1 to Craig's comment about NOT using those products as glue.

Mr_Brown · #16 05-01-2008, 06:56 AM

Originally Posted by STLPCA

What "goo" are you referring to? Properly applied, the products I referenced create no "mess."
I'd be interested in reading whatever you read "somewhere." The specialty brake products I referenced above are absolutely compatible with the rubber seals.
+1 to Craig's comment about NOT using those products as glue.

Why do you suppose that Porsche chooses not to use paste or spray anti-squeal products? (e.g. Wurth Anti-squeal spray). FWIW, I use copper paste on my Subaru brakes (slide rails, backing plates) but not on my Porsche.

"Somewhere" was another forum, ppbb.com. I didn't intend to cite it as a scientific source.

In my post #4, I suggest not to use these products at all on Porsche brakes and I'll stand by that opinion. But it's just my opinion. I'm open to hearing others that differ.

**Craig@Rennstore.com** · #17 05-01-2008, 09:55 AM

I highly suspect that Porsche uses what it does to:

A) Keep it simple - By using very soft pads to minimize any sound.
B) Lemon laws.......imaging the mess Porsche would have on it's hands with brake pads that even made an incurable peep.........for a person who spent 60k on a car that sees no track time and who alos does not have any understanding of the tradeoffs that come with choices in friction materials.