Planet 9

Time to flush the coolant - is this a DIY, dealer or independent project?
Suggestions?

According to Porsche coolant flushes are unnecessary. The fluid is "lifetime", but in this case the lifetime in question is that of the water pump, radiator, or hoses. If any of these fail you must replace he coolant as part of the procedure. I've never seen the drain & fill procedure documented.

Coolant will need to be flushed and fille with a vacuum system, that will draw out the old fluid and fill with new without any air bubbles. I believe Snap On tools carry the vacuum system you will need.

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speedMotiv

BS. It is lifetime coolant. Lifetime of the coolant. You won't know what this is until the water pump bearing fails, or a radiator develops a leak, or the oil cooler develops a leak.

That's an expensive way to know you should have changed the coolant a year or two earlier.

BTW, when's the last time you have the brake fluid flushed and the system pressure bled?

And had the tranny/diff fluid changed?

Coolant change is a bit of job cause it is hard to refill sysem with no air pockets. Both times I've had my '02 Boxster's coolant changed I had it done at dealership. 1st time was after I hit some road debris and busted a radiator and lost coolant. 2nd time was when water pump failed (at nearly 200,000 miles).

Sincerely,

Rockster.

Why is it "time for a coolant flush"? Where did that come from?

I've been hoping someone would post an article detailing the procedure before I have to approach it.

leaving the stuff in the engine for a lifetime, or at least what people interpret this to mean. Lifetime of the car when in fact it is the lifetime of the coolant, whatever that is.

That 4 years number based on when it was easier to check/view the coolant noting when the coolant's color starting changing. Might be a way to analyze the stuff but who wants to bother? How frequently does one have to analyze the coolant? Every year then every 6 months then every 3 months then every month until one has wrung the last bit of life out of the stuff?

No thanks.

Frankly my goal is not to wring the maximum service life out of a few bucks worth of coolant but to maximize the life of a very critical cooling system that plays a vital role in keeping a very expensive collection of parts cool and operating efficiently.

Dealing with the problems that will arise from a leaking cooling system arising from running coolant past its replace by date will make the savings one has "gained" by not spending a few bucks for a cooling system drain and refill seem silly.

Sincerely,

Rockster.

coolant drain/refill. Be sure the indy shop (or dealer) uses the neat tank for this. The tank that holds the proper amount of pre-mixed coolant. The tech turns on a vacuum pump and pulls a vacuum in the drained cooling system. Enough so I've been told the rubber cooling hoses collapse.

He then turns off the vacuum and opens the valve that allows this vacuum (pressure diff) to force that coolant into the cooling system. No air pockets. And no having to start and run the engine at fast idle until coolant hot enough to flow past thermostat and make enough room to add more coolant.

This technique documented in the Bentley manual but frankly I think it Boxster or Cayman engine torture.

Both times I had my '02 Boxster's cooling system done by the tank method and afterwards I've not had to top up or add any coolant. System comes back to me fully air pocket free. Beautiful. And place that does the drain/refill has to dispose of the old coolant.

Another technique I've read about but haven't tried -- circumstances required a coolant change before I could try this technique -- is to use hose clamps to pinch closed the radiator hoses to keep coolant in the radiator hoses and radiators then open the engine coolant drain valve and drain 1 or more gallons of old coolant from engine.

Close drain valve and then add new coolant mixed properly with distilled water until system full. Remove hose clamps.

Start and run engine until hot and top up coolant if level low.

This replaces approx. half the old coolant with new and thus the corrosion resistance is improved. Do this every year, 18 months, 2 years -- you pick an interval you like -- and the cooling system essentially maintains a pretty high level of corrosion resistance without the expense/trouble of changing the entire cooling system contents.

But if you want to do a full drain/refill yourself...IIRC check out www.mikefocke.com site and follow the links to a cooling system drain/refill DIY link.

Sincerely,

Rockster.

Agreed................

'LifeTime Coolant - Porsche AG'..... Top Up - If Necessary - And Forget....

How Difficult is That....?

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Cheers Karel



'Power is Nothing - Without Control..........'

Any connection between your user name and your interest in changing the coolant?

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Gator Bite
PCA Cayman Register Advocate

GB - You are Wicked............... (But Correct...)
Wish I Had Thought of That Answer....

But................ Perhaps - Changing Underwear........... Strikes a Chord....

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Cheers Karel



'Power is Nothing - Without Control..........'

Well, gentlemen, this is a fine welcome to a new member. Great sarcasm. He/she asked a simple question.

Some folks, sometimes I'm in this camp, don't go for this "lifetime" or "extended drain interval" stuff the auto manufacturers try to sell us, because sometimes it doesn't pass the "what's changed" test for believability. Frankly, my interest in replacing the fluid is more along the lines of what you do if a hose leaks or the water pump goes, but if my car keeps needing a pint of coolant every 2500 miles, as it has so far, I may decide that by 50K miles the chemistry is off by enough a flush is worthwhile. Anyway, it would be nice to know the procedure, and I think the sarcasm is a little off-base.

My apologies if I offended anyone. I didn't mean to. I was seriously trying to ascertain if maybe he was goofing around.

Urban Legend, welcome to the club. Seriously.

Today's coolants are very good and when used in an all aluminum engine they last very long, as suggested by the term 'lifetime' used by the factory. That being said, I don't think I'll be leaving mine in for the life of my car. But I doubt I'd consider changing it out any time before say 60,000 miles. Is there a reason you feel yours needs replacement?

I am not a fan of replacing fluids unnecessarily because disposal of those fluid often has environmental impact. I like to be careful about the waste that I generate.

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Gator Bite
PCA Cayman Register Advocate

Trackbacks:

One thing I do know about coolant is that if you don't buy pre-mixed and add your own water, it has to be distilled. Tap water will wreck the water pump.

Other thing is that it shouldn't use coolant at that rate. If it's using coolant regularly, you should find out why. I just went throught this with my '95 M3 track rat. It's been using coolant at every track event. When I topped it up cold to the line on the expansion tank, it would leak at the track. Finally, driving home from track three weeks ago, the car would hover in the cold region on the temp indicator during highway cruising. If I downshifted or passed someone, it would go up into operating range...classic symptom of a stuck-open thermostat.

I had that repaired by local independent shop of good quality and asked them to check for anything else. They confirmed it was the thermostat and replaced it.

At the track two weekends ago (MVP Tracktime), the water pump let go while I was hauling down the main straigh at Putnam Park. It had soaked the left front tire by the brake point for turn one and the car slewed sideways on braking...at about 110. I first thought it was the car in front of me dropping oil on the track until I smelled coolant, then I looked at the gage and it was pinned to the right an a light had come on. After reeling the car in...very proud of not giving in to panic and keeping it on the track... I shut it down quick and coasted to the corner worker station with 4-ways on and off-line. No one else slipped around on my goo, so I guess I didn't lose that much coolant. There were puddles of it on top of the engine and the whole engine bay will need a good cleaning.

Luckily, no engine damage. I was able to get the car towed to the Indy BMW dealer and they took care of it. I picked it up last Saturday and all seems well. Water pump and thermostat and drive belts were replaced. Drive belts were fraying and since they were in there, no labor charge to replace them. Great dealer for BMW in Indy. Very nice people.

Anyway, this water pump failure, I'm guessing, was the result of contamination in the coolant probably put there from the first guy who changed my thermostat. It could also have been from the frequent top-ups I'd been doing. A message comes on to check coolant if it's low and it had been spewing if it was at normal level.

I haven't tracked the car since this happened but I think the problems are solved.

Not completely Cayman related, but completely coolant related. If you've got a small leak like you describe, get it checked out before something expensive happens...and have the coolant replaced with the good stuff at the dealer...cheap insurance.

-Six

Goodness Me - You are as Your Avatar Shows.................. (Grumpy...)

Simple Question -Replied to Correctly Initially - No Response.............

Read the Manufacturers Instructions - Do Not Tell Me You Know Better - If As You Describe Above, You Have a Leak - Changing the Fluid Will Not Stop the Leak.................. SOLVE THE LEAK....

There Is NO NEED TO CHANGE COOLANT................................ Just For the Sake Of Changing It Out.............

Off Base.......? Yes You Are.....................

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Cheers Karel



'Power is Nothing - Without Control..........'

Frankly, that's what I thought. Just to be clear about the scope of the problem, I have about 7000 miles on the car and I've put in approximately three pints of coolant. The 1st pint was at ~40 miles, when I got home with the car and checked all of the fluid levels from the factory. The second pint was at a 2500 mile check I did, and the third was at my 5000 mile check. The 5000 mile amount was somewhat less than a pint, the 2500 mile amount was somewhat more. The weather was a lot warmer for the 5000 mile check, and I'm not sure how much a 30F temp difference makes to the coolant expansion factor.

The last time I pulled the engine cover I saw no evidence of any leaking at any cooling system connections. At 2000 miles I pulled the chassis cladding just to see what was under it, and checked every connection for everything fluid-related, and saw no evidence of any leaks there either.

When I picked up a gallon of Porsche coolant at the dealer I talked to someone in the service dept, to see if my coolant use was a concern, and he seemed to think it was somewhat normal for cars to use "a little" coolant. "Bring it in if the warning light goes on." I didn't even ask which light he was referring to; it was obvious he wasn't concerned.

In Porsche's defense, our BMWs eat coolant too, and in greater amounts than the Porsche. The BMW dealer also thinks that's "normal", as does Mike Miller of Roundel magazine, a well-known maintenance curmugeon. Of course, BMW specifies coolant changes every 3-4 years, so that gets the chemistry back to normal. I'm not sure what I'll do if the Porsche keeps eating coolant.

Hmmm..... I can't see any reason why a Porsche, or any car for that matter, should use any coolant. It's a closed system. The only way for coolant to vanish is through some sort of leak, or through the pressure relief valve if overheated (still a leak, just a planned controlled leak).

In the case of the BMW on the track, I could assume that maybe the track use created temps that you never see on the street, causing the coolant to expand more than usual, and causing the relief valve to vent some off. Then it cools, contracts, and you're low. But that scenario would leave visible coolant somewhere (unless it's happening while the car is in motion, more like to happen after it's turned off). If you're not seeing any coolant, and the car is truly consuming coolant, than the only place I can imagine being consumed is around the head gasket into the combustion chamber. That's not good and if left unchecked it will destroy the engine.

To me, loss of coolant = cause of concern.

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Gator Bite
PCA Cayman Register Advocate

The reason to flush a cooling system, periodically, comes from having cast iron engine blocks. Cast iron exposed to water leads to rust. Rust ocludes water passages. Then the engine overheats.

In addition, sometimes the electrical circuit can be poorly grounded, causing electrolysis to take place, gradually dissolving the radiator core, water pump impeller, etc.

So, annual flushing gets all that crud out of the system.

If the coolant in a system doesn't have an effect on the materials of the system, then there isn't any need to replace the coolant. If the coolant breaks down, then maybe it doesn't work any more???

Water pumps fail because either a seal wears and lets coolant get to a bearing, thereby causing failure. Or weight/tension on the shaft can cause bearing failure.

Unless the system is leaking or performing incorrectly, there isn't any reason to mess with it IMO.

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LL

I'm on that page too, which is why I'm doing a Blackstone analysis on my next oil change. I'm also anxious to see if the CS uses more coolant or stops. One theory a friend has is that the CS was delivered with small air pockets in the cooling system, and over time they work their way out, so the coolant level falls. This might explain why so many members have had to add coolant when their cars are new, or not. If his theory holds water (ha!) then coolant usage should trail off and stop. We'll see!

On the other hand, if some coolant usage is somehow unavoidable a flush isn't a bad idea, because that means the system isn't perfectly sealed.

Gator:

In my case, I went to one "Driving Event", came home with a stuck thermostat. Got that fixed then went to another "Driving Event" at the same track 250 miles from my house, and the water pump failed after a day of tire and brake shredding. I had been seeing coolant loss for a while. I read that the expansion tanks on these cars have been known to crack, so I bought one and had been thinking the little bit of coolant I was losing (and seeing traces of on the engine for the last 10 or so DE's) was caused by the tank. What I now think is that the seal on the water pump had been marginal and the coolant was coming out of there. Tank didn't leak.

My point is same as yours, if it's leaking, something is wrong. At DE's, my car never gets hot. Always in the middle of the temp gage. Really hot with A/C on stuck in traffic it might get up to almost 3/4 but never higher...until this failure.

By the way, retrieved the car this weekend and all is well again. No leaks. Coolant is topped up and stays topped up.

Don't assume that it's "Normal" for a liquid cooled engine to use coolant. It's not.

-TB