Planet 9

**K-Man S** · #21 05-13-2009, 06:45 PM

Hey you are right, ok I'll use the spoiler tag to hide it.

Hidden Text:

Although not really a spoiler...

wpmjr · #22 05-13-2009, 06:47 PM

Originally Posted by K-Man S

Well if it were bigger/better/improved over the Constitution wouldn't it be the best in the fleet currently (but of course likely surpassed by the next ship off the line?)

No, the ships of a given class are substantially the same. If there was a notable improvement then it would be a new class. It's modeled after the US navy's method of classifying ships. I think the Next Gens' Enterprise was made in Utopia Planetia...

...digging myself deeper into geekdom...

**mutant_tuna** · #23 05-13-2009, 07:09 PM

A really enjoyable thread, I hope to see the movie soon.

**LA Boy** · #24 05-13-2009, 07:46 PM

By the way, I wonder if a Gorn is related to a Cayman?

woodbine · #25 05-13-2009, 09:03 PM

just saw it, AWESOME! You won't be disappointed! GO!

**DaveC** · #26 05-13-2009, 09:08 PM

Yes, a Gorn is a 24th century caiman, er...Cayman.......

wpmjr is right, in Starfleet the "heavy cruiser" class of vessels in the Constitution class are identical. In the original series we saw several ships identical to the Enterprise. The Constellation, Exeter, Defiant, Exeter, and Potemkin come to mind. It really wasn't until the movies that other classes of starships were seen. The original series had a really, really low budget. One more thing which I certainly felt personally. This movie really hands off Star Trek to a new generation. Nimoy and Shatner are in their 70s, Doohan and Kelly are departed. This summer will be the 40th anniversary of the moon landing. In those days by 2009 I thought I'd be flying to a orbiting space station on the way to the moon as in 2001: A Space Odyssey. The future isn't exactly what I thought it would be as a 12 year old in 1969. I wanted to live in that Star Trek universe which was so optimistic. So this movie, as they say, closes one door and opens another. I have high hopes for today's 12 year olds watching this movie and dreaming about travel to the stars.

**K-Man S** · #27 05-13-2009, 09:13 PM

Originally Posted by DaveC

Yes, a Gorn is a 24th century caiman, er...Cayman.......

wpmjr is right, in Starfleet the "heavy cruiser" class of vessels in the Constitution class are identical. In the original series we saw several ships identical to the Enterprise. The Constellation, Exeter, Defiant, Exeter, and Potemkin come to mind. It really wasn't until the movies that other classes of starships were seen. The original series had a really, really low budget.

Ok but using the US Navy analogy that was used above I can tell you that ships of the same class are never identical. Engineering changes are made along the way, electronics are upgraded, etc. so that each ship that rolls off the line is a little bit different from the one prior to it. For example the Constitution could have 100 Jigawatt phasers whereas the Enterprise might have 120 Jigawatt phasers.

If we are drawing parallels to the navy then it stands to reason that while the major systems are likely the same, that minor systems and components are being upgraded all the time and unless all ships were built in absolute parallel (which they aren't) then the newest ship off the line will enjoy some upgrades vs. the previous ships. The rate of these changes depends on a lot of factors but typically the rate of change is higher during wartime than peacetime as advancements are more critical and cost is less of a factor during wartime.

wpmjr · #28 05-14-2009, 06:51 AM

Originally Posted by K-Man S

Ok but using the US Navy analogy that was used above I can tell you that ships of the same class are never identical. Engineering changes are made along the way, electronics are upgraded, etc. so that each ship that rolls off the line is a little bit different from the one prior to it. For example the Constitution could have 100 Jigawatt phasers whereas the Enterprise might have 120 Jigawatt phasers.

If we are drawing parallels to the navy then it stands to reason that while the major systems are likely the same, that minor systems and components are being upgraded all the time and unless all ships were built in absolute parallel (which they aren't) then the newest ship off the line will enjoy some upgrades vs. the previous ships. The rate of these changes depends on a lot of factors but typically the rate of change is higher during wartime than peacetime as advancements are more critical and cost is less of a factor during wartime.

Sure, there are minor changes, but the way they state it in the movie they imply that there's never been anything like this ship before- that's my point. I also wish they had done a bit more to make the ship itself more of a character, or presence in the film- maybe next movie.

**DaveC** · #29 05-14-2009, 06:58 AM

Of course your're right Ken, about the US Navy. Roddenberry had a slightly smaller budget!

**K-Man S** · #30 05-14-2009, 07:16 AM

Originally Posted by wpmjr

Sure, there are minor changes, but the way they state it in the movie they imply that there's never been anything like this ship before- that's my point. I also wish they had done a bit more to make the ship itself more of a character, or presence in the film- maybe next movie.

I misunderstood your point then, I guess I missed that implication in the movie that the Enterprise was somehow superior to all other ships at that time, unless of course the first ship the Constitution was more of a prototype and wasn't fully decked out like the Enterprise was. Speaking of ships what seemed odd to me was that a Romulan mining ship was more heavily armed/advanced than the Enterprise even given the time difference. I don't think a brand new oil tanker today could take out a battleship from WWII. Granted that's not exactly the same analogy and you could certainly argue that Nero found a way to equip his mining ship with the weapons necessary to become more of a combat ship, etc.

I concur that I'd like to see the Enterprise be a bit more of a character, but given that this was the first movie and they need to develop the human characters first I can cut them some slack.

The proportions of the new Enterprise seem a bit odd to me, not sure what it is, maybe the engine nacelles being what looks like much larger in proportion or something.

I certainly like the point laser defense system to shoot down incoming missiles, makes the Enterprise more like heavy cruiser or something, and of course the Star Trek universe seems to lack the equivalent of an aircraft carrier like Battlestar Galactica.

Originally Posted by DaveC

Of course your're right Ken, about the US Navy. Roddenberry had a slightly smaller budget!

**PistolPete** · #31 05-14-2009, 08:09 AM

From what I've read, there is apparently a movie "prequel" comic book series that showed the Romulan mining ship being equipped with some prototype Borg technology. That would certainly give it an extra edge on anything out there.

wpmjr · #32 05-14-2009, 08:15 AM

The line was either in one of the trailers or the movie or both- I only recall raising my eyebrow (Spock fashion) when I heard it.

Yes, I too have trouble understanding why the mining ship is so powerful (it not only dishes it out the armament but takes a big blow early on in the movie and survives), and why such a big ship goes unnoticed for 25 years, why red matter isn't the ultimate weapon in the future, and how Scotty can sit down and take over engineering on a ship he's never been on.

Vik · #33 05-14-2009, 09:39 AM

saw the movie ....... totally awesome ...... had been pining for a really good scifi for a while .....

**LA Boy** · #34 05-14-2009, 09:53 AM

It just occured to me...a Cayman S is what you get when a Gorn is assimilated by the Borg.

Retired-Teach · #35 05-14-2009, 11:17 AM

I haven't seen the movie yet, and I haven't really read anything about it other than it's a prequel. I believe they have a problem with the storyline. In the original series, when they first came in contact with the Romulans, they didn't know what they looked like. How can that be if Kirk is on Romulan ship?

Interesting side note I'm sure many of you know, but the actor who played Spock's father, was the Romulan commander in that episode.

**K-Man S** · #36 05-14-2009, 11:45 AM

Originally Posted by Retired-Teach

I haven't seen the movie yet, and I haven't really read anything about it other than it's a prequel. I believe they have a problem with the storyline. In the original series, when they first came in contact with the Romulans, they didn't know what they looked like. How can that be if Kirk is on Romulan ship?

Interesting side note I'm sure many of you know, but the actor who played Spock's father, was the Romulan commander in that episode.

No problem with the timeline, you'll have to see the movie though to find out why...

wpmjr · #37 05-14-2009, 12:01 PM

Originally Posted by Retired-Teach

I haven't seen the movie yet, and I haven't really read anything about it other than it's a prequel. I believe they have a problem with the storyline. In the original series, when they first came in contact with the Romulans, they didn't know what they looked like. How can that be if Kirk is on Romulan ship?

Interesting side note I'm sure many of you know, but the actor who played Spock's father, was the Romulan commander in that episode.

No, that's intact. That original episode was one of the best though- an excellent ripoff of an old submarine movie- Run Silent, Run Deep?

**jcriggs** · #38 05-14-2009, 12:47 PM

If you've seen the movie, feel free to put your pointer on the black stripe below to see the hidden text. There's a minor spoiler in there.

What ever happened to the bug they put in Capt Pike to make him talk? Was it the same bug that Khan put in Chekov's ear?

Retired-Teach · #39 05-14-2009, 01:21 PM

I plan on seeing it by next week.

AlexMcNabb · #40 05-14-2009, 03:59 PM

GREAT movie! McCoy steals the show, and the appearance of a certain classic character really adds so much nostalgia to the whole thing. A real success in my book, particularly the action sequences.