Planet 9

***DaveN007*** · #1 05-28-2009, 07:22 PM

I am in a situation and I need your advice.

My pontoon boat needed a complete re-upholstery job. I chose to hire an upholstery shop that was recommended to me by a marine store. We agreed that he (the sole proprietor) would remove, reupholster, and replace my furniture for $1900. It was supposed to take about a week.That was April 16th. It stretched to two weeks because of bad weather.

When I called to bring the boat in for the installation, I was told that the proprietor was in the hospital and very sick. He has subsequently been diagnosed with some form of cancer. He is starting chemotherapy next week.

The seats are not finished and they are "trying to find someone to help get them finished". I am supposed to call next week for a status and to see if "he feels well enough 2 days after chemotherapy to do some work". I talking to his daughter for language reasons at this point. I expressed my deepest sympathy for their family's situation and said that I would call back in a week, but that we might need to come to an arrangement where I pay for the work done and pick up the seats.

During the removal process, he disconnected the throttle and steering unit. There is no way I will be able to fix that myself, although I could re-install the rest of the furniture myself in 5 or 6 hours. I will have to take the boat to a marine shop to get it put back together completely

It costs me $5000 a year to own and maintain the boat for 4 or 5 months of use each year. Boating is what we do as a family.

If he can't finish the upholstery, I would propose that I pick up the furniture and find another shop to finish the work. I would then pay him the difference. That might be zero. Especially if I have to hire someone to put the throttle/steering back together.

If he finishes the upholstery I was going to propose that I pick up the finished furniture and install it myself. That would be a nightmare and probably would end up with me at a boat shop, plus the console would not end up reupholstered. So I was thinking $1900- $200 (console not done)-$200 (install) = $1500. But I would only give him $1000 until I confirmed how much it was going to cost to do the technical work, then give him the difference.

I really have lost between $350 and $1000 worth of use of the boat per month, and I just don't want to end up completely screwed. We live next to a lake and this is a big part of my family's summer. The lake is a reservoir and it is full for the first time in years. I know that sounds trivial compared to a man's life and his family's pain, but I am pretty torn up about this.

If he just says, "No. I want the full price and you will have to wait." What should I do? I haven't paid him anything yet.

I wish I could convey the meaning of not being able to have our family boating time without it sounding selfish and absurd in light of this man's health issues. Please save the lectures on how shallow I am. It just isn't true.

Thanks for your advice.

**Santa Fe** · #2 05-28-2009, 07:34 PM

My advice is to put yourself in his shoes and decide what you would do in a similar situation (hard to do I know) and err on the side of being fair to him and then do that. My thought would be a generous payment to him and retrieve the boat and start over. No one promises that life is fair so don't fixate too much on that. Not a lecture but you only have one chance to "do the right thing" that will make you comfortable the rest of your life and you have to be the judge of that.

**tach miami** · #3 05-28-2009, 07:39 PM

Ask him if he well enough to put the steering and throttle stuff back together by himself or with some help for now. Have him put the seats back in or do it yourself and tell him you will be back at the end of the season because you know he will be better after chemo and you like his work. Then wait and see what kind of shape he is in to decide what to do. If the seats are in really bad shape, buy some cushions and covers for now.

greycroc · #4 05-28-2009, 08:27 PM

Originally Posted by Santa Fe

My advice is to put yourself in his shoes and decide what you would do in a similar situation (hard to do I know) and err on the side of being fair to him and then do that. My thought would be a generous payment to him and retrieve the boat and start over. No one promises that life is fair so don't fixate too much on that. Not a lecture but you only have one chance to "do the right thing" that will make you comfortable the rest of your life and you have to be the judge of that.

Very Very well put Santa Fe (Zen Master). Very Zen Like

moralem · #5 05-28-2009, 08:39 PM

Well put, how would you treat the situation if it was you with cancer and your life and your ability to provide for your family and it's future were at stake. How would you want someone to treat you. If you have children also ask yourself how would you want them to remember how you handled the situation once they are adults and have to make similar life decisions. Follow your conscience.

ul2fly · #6 05-28-2009, 09:37 PM

I would just ask him what his plans for the job are. If he has soul then he will understand your position and make the you the customer happy. If he is given the opportunity, base your move on his response...I would.

Happy Boating

Courtney · #7 05-31-2009, 10:41 AM

>>>>My thought would be a generous payment to him and retrieve the boat and start over.

Couldn't agree more.

I deal with construction claims and disputes and have the pleasure of lecturing in Construction Ethics at Columbia University once a semester.

I always start by restating the fact situation, absent any money.

When I do that here, my first thoughts are . . .

You and he are both good and honest folks.
Everyone meant for everything to go perfect.
His health concerns could not have been anticipated.
Your wishes to boat with your family are easy for any family person to understand.

Yep . . . in a nutshell you can do no better than "My thought would be a generous payment to him and retrieve the boat and start over. "

Get boating and enjoy the time with your family, it's precious.

**K-Man S** · #8 05-31-2009, 12:19 PM

I'm thinking a set of those waterproof seat covers could have avoided this whole problem but since you didn't go that route, I concur with Santa Fe, or as another option please donate the boat to me and I will take care of it from here. There are lots of boat rental places where you can get something for the family to cruise around in for the summer.

In case you didn't know, Kansas used to be a great inland sea, so if I stock up on boats, some day it may return and I'll have a use for them.

***DaveN007*** · #9 05-31-2009, 03:33 PM

Originally Posted by K-Man S

I'm thinking a set of those waterproof seat covers could have avoided this whole problem....

???

Actually, it was a series of boat ownership lessons.

1) If you cover your boat with a nice custom cover, animals and mildew move in over the winter.

2) If you clean your furniture with 409 is makes it nice and clean and strips away any UV protection the vinyl once had.

3) Leaving the custom cover off the next winter to avoid mildew, and leaving the bimini tops up is a great idea until it rains and the tops collapse. $900.

4) The sun eats unprotected vinyl. $2500 and counting.

5) If you don't use Stabil, gunk will end up in your motor and that will cost you $800.

**saabin** · #10 05-31-2009, 04:59 PM

Originally Posted by DaveN007

Actually, it was a series of boat ownership lessons.

1) If you cover your boat with a nice custom cover, animals and mildew move in over the winter.

2) If you clean your furniture with 409 is makes it nice and clean and strips away any UV protection the vinyl once had.

3) Leaving the custom cover off the next winter to avoid mildew, and leaving the bimini tops up is a great idea until it rains and the tops collapse. $900.

4) The sun eats unprotected vinyl. $2500 and counting.

5) If you don't use Stabil, gunk will end up in your motor and that will cost you $800.

I don't own a boat, but I've heard this joke from several of my boat-owning friends:

What are the best 2 days of a boat owners life? The days he buys the boat & the day he sells it.

***Mark C.*** · #11 05-31-2009, 09:38 PM

Originally Posted by Santa Fe

err on the side of being fair to him and then do that. My thought would be a generous payment to him and retrieve the boat and start over.

If you can find the compassion to do this, karma will forever be on your side.
The example you show your children will likewise be everlasting.

.

**jnscolo** · #12 06-01-2009, 09:58 AM

I too am a boat owner and understand what a great family focus it is. I am not advocating profligacy, but I'd echo SF. Tell him you plan to pick up the boat at day x, pay him in full, and start over from that point. You can mention that you'd like the throttle, etc, reconnected, but don't get hung up on it.

And all boat owners have the lessons learned litany like yours. Definition of boat: A hole in the water into which the owner pours money.

kareldeeley · #13 06-01-2009, 10:44 AM

Originally Posted by jnscolo

Definition of boat: A hole in the water into which the owner pours money.

In England -

A Boat Owner is Someone - 'Who Takes a Cold Shower, Whilst Tearing Up, Ten Pound Notes................. '

We Don't See the Sun Even in Summer - the Water is Always Cold and Wet - and Boating/Sailing Whatever - is an Expensive Business...........

As A Nation Of Seamen........... Never More than an Hour from the Sea

Bring on the Porsche Track Racing Season...................

**shakeypics** · #14 06-01-2009, 08:24 PM

Contact the gentleman whom you made the deal with if he is available and willing to chat, see if he's able to finish the boat within a few day's or so, if not ask him how much you owe him, let him decide the number and pay him, hopefully he's fair. Politely explain your situation and that you need your boat to finish the work so you can enjoy your time with your family, he should understand. Money's nice, but it's not enough to set your retirement back, but his health clearly could cut his time short, good luck, I also know the feeling of a short boating season, sold mine last year, 3 months wasn't enough time for the effort.

***DaveN007*** · #15 06-11-2009, 05:22 PM

Well, the family has not been very open to options other than "give us the full amount and go away" with no work done. They won't even give me back my seats for less than the full amount. The son-in-law said "I saw you in your Mercedes ( a 1999 ML430 worth about $7500 at this point)" The implication being obvious. I thought a thousand dollars was enough for zero work done, considering it is going to cost be $500 just to get the console fixed, which he damaged as it turns out.

In the movies, it is always the white collar guy screwing the "working man". In real life, I haven't seen it that way.

So I am a bit screwed. This puts me about $2500 further in the hole than when I started, so I will be selling my unused performance mods in the classifieds/on eBay. I can't justify the installation costs for this stuff over the boat which the whole family enjoys. Staring in the face of tax increases makes it a zero sum game. Something must go.

So much for compassion.

So...

Quaife LSD
Short shifter
Camber plates
BBI underdrive pulley and tool/socket

Unused...brand new.

Look on classifieds.

**BillC** · #16 06-11-2009, 06:40 PM

It sounds like you've tried to be reasonable and understanding, but that you've run out of options going down that road. Given the family's attitude and treatment of you, and the likelihood that he'll never finish your boat, I'm thinking it's time to get the police involved, and maybe a lawyer too. I would call them up and give them one last time to agree to your more-than-reasonable terms or you will call the police -- if they threaten to call the police on you, tell them to go right ahead, they have no grounds on which to stand.

He operates (operated?) a business, and engaged in a contract with you to provide goods and services (even if it was only verbal, verbal contracts are still binding). He no longer appears able to provide those goods or services but will not return your property, which puts him in default on the contract. IANAL (I am not a lawyer), but in most states you can sue for treble damages on defaulted contracts, as well as any additional damages accumulated while trying to be made "whole" (such as lawyer and court fees, and reasonable repair costs to fix his damage).

It's truly sad that it has come to this, but it's time to either play hardball or to roll over and let them walk all over you. You are not responsible for his illness or its consequences, don't let them make you their whipping boy.

**Santa Fe** · #17 06-11-2009, 07:15 PM

The guy has cancer. He probably isn't going to live very long. Move on. Life is not fair to you or him or any of us. A few dollars lost now is better than what he is facing. It takes a real person to do the right thing even if you feel the other party isn't.

**tach miami** · #18 06-11-2009, 07:30 PM

In that case with his poor attitude, go to court with an escrow account or bond for the original agreed amount. With the court order, go to the guy with a cop and have him serve the guy with the papers. Then you can take the boat, seats, and whatever else is yours for now and deal with the jerk later in court if he want to pursue it. I’m not sure of the legal terms but that is the general idea.

**Santa Fe** · #19 06-11-2009, 07:50 PM

Originally Posted by tach miami

In that case with his poor attitude, go to court with an escrow account or bond for the original agreed amount. With the court order, go to the guy with a cop and have him serve the guy with the papers. Then you can take the boat, seats, and whatever else is yours for now and deal with the jerk later in court if he want to pursue it. I’m not sure of the legal terms but that is the general idea.

I'm missing something from this logic. If the person has cancer and is undergoing treatment as the OP has posted he cannot perform as he would have. The last thing on his or his families minds is the OP's summer boat enjoyment. If you have had a family member go through this (hopefully not) I really don't think you would be this cold hearted. This person from the description by the OP didn't set out to cheat anyone but suddenly found out he was probably going to die soon. Jeez, the poor OP is going to miss a summer of boating and be out a few bucks. If the story is accurate my respect for those with no emphatic ability has vanished.

If the story is correct then the OP should consider more ways to help the family. Take the poor guy for treatment once a week, bring over a ham, if there are kids maybe they need some shoes. I don't know but showing up with the cops and a lawyer if these facts are close to true are pretty much removed from the options most of us would choose.

***DaveN007*** · #20 06-11-2009, 08:14 PM

Originally Posted by Santa Fe

The guy has cancer. He probably isn't going to live very long. Move on. Life is not fair to you or him or any of us. A few dollars lost now is better than what he is facing. It takes a real person to do the right thing even if you feel the other party isn't.

I understand the "move on" part. That is what I am doing.

The rest is an insult and pure bullshit.

The right thing? I DID the right thing. I gave him 2 extra months to find help. Then I offered him a THOUSAND DOLLARS FOR DOING NOTHING. That is a lot of money for DOING NOTHING out of my wallet.

Now his son-in-law is trying to **** me.

His cancer is worse than you sending him a check for $2000, so would you like his address? He might die and you are alive, so you should send him $2000. If it takes $10,000 or $100,000 to simulate the sting $2000 causes me, then so be it.

Talk is cheap and so was your shot at me.