Stuttgart - Porsche has officially given the green light to a new lightweight Cayman model variant due to debut for the 2012 model year. The Cayman CS or "Club Sport" will be shown at the Los Angeles auto show later this year and go on sale in 2011 as a 2012 model. The CS will receive some of the same treatment given to the recent Boxster Spyder such as lighter weight components, fabric door pulls, and a uniquely styled set of lightweight wheels modeled after those on the GT2 RS. Recent press reports indicated that this new variant was shown to Sales Managers in US and Europe at recent internal Porsche meetings and given the positive response from their dealership network Porsche has chosen to move forward with production.
A number of technical items have been circulated internally among the team responsible for this variant and include the following:
333hp 3.4L engine
Sport PASM suspension - 20mm lower than stock ride height
A/C, stereo are optional
162-184lbs lighter than stock Cayman S
Aluminum doors, fabric door pulls
Lightweight hatch, optional lexan window (europe only)
19" unique lightweight wheels
Sport bucket seats
Revalved steering assist
Locking rear differential standard
Uprated brakes (optional)
Restylized front fascia
Cayman Club Sport side graphics
Rear diffuser
Ducktail-style larger rear spoiler (fixed)
Club Sport Insignia badging in interior
Optional "Track Pack", includes partial roll cage, harness and fittings plus fire extinguisher (europe only)
Cited performance numbers - 0-62 in 4.6s
Base Price: $66,330
I'm glad it's finally confirmed and the rumors are over. The CS package is an excellent value, and although I will need the AC in my climate I'm glad they offer the choice.
Talked to the sales reps at Porsche Zentrum in Stuttgart yesterday and still no official news or pricing. Most of the factory's heading into the summer holiday season so I'm not holding my breath on "official" news until September or so...
Just paid off the Mini (tentatively sold too) and we're well ahead of the curve on SWMBO's new A4...looks like a new toy will join the stable just before heading back to the 'States next year!
Ken, any more news on this? Also when will production start? I have a dilemma. My Spyder is coming in 3 weeks and I am unsure what to do. I love the Spyder, but this will be much more practical. My options are:
1. Get the Spyder and keep it long term
2. Get the Spyder and swap it over for a CS in a year (expensive)
3. Change the order to a CS and get my friend's Gallardo that he is trading in until the CS comes (just as expensive as option 2)
Huh? 7:59 vs. 8:11., that's 12 seconds isn't it? On a track that certainly favors horsepower, which is what I said, the hp tracks will favor the 997, the tighter tracks the Cayman. We don't know these test conditions or setups between the two cars either. That's also a newer 997 Gen 2 vs. the older Gen 1 Cayman, I suspect a Gen 2 Cayman is faster than 8:11 but its never been tested officially that I know of.
I agree that you can't make a blanket statement about cars, that's why I was countering the blanket statement that the HP of the 997 doesn't "destroy" the Cayman. Given the differences in gearing and HP between the Gen 2 997 S and the Gen 1 Cayman S, I'm surprised the time difference over 14+ Miles is only 12 seconds.
Give the Cayman the same motor and gearing and I think we all know it is a different story, but even relegated to where it is, I think the Cayman is the better drivers car and would be / is more fun to drive than the 997. I'm sure Walter feels the same way!
Huh? 7:59 vs. 8:11., that's 12 seconds isn't it? On a track that certainly favors horsepower, which is what I said, the hp tracks will favor the 997, the tighter tracks the Cayman. We don't know these test conditions or setups between the two cars either. That's also a newer 997 Gen 2 vs. the older Gen 1 Cayman, I suspect a Gen 2 Cayman is faster than 8:11 but its never been tested officially that I know of.
No you missed it Ken. The Gen II Carrera S is 7:50, and the Gen II Cayman S (with PDK!!) is 8:06. 16 seconds. Might have been more if the 997 had PDK also.
But you're right, speed isn't really the point, it's fun factor. That's why I kept my '86 911 with 25-year old suspension and brake systems and 200 bhp, and sold my 2007 997.1 S instead. I found that the older car, while slower in every way, is simply more satisfying to drive by a wide margin. That's what counts in my book.
I'm on board with you that a Cayman/Boxster is more fun to drive than a Carrera primarily because of its superior handling and cornering ability.
I find both cars gratifying to drive, even well below 8/10s They are, however, very different from each other. When I get into the Boxster S after driving the C2S the first thing I notice is that the Boxster wants to be tossed around curves and encourages the driver to do so, while the 911 still requires that the driver deliberately develop a handling method (slow in, fast out) because it doesn't naturally encourage the driver to rapidly arc around corners. The 911 needs a lot of power to provide turn exit thrust, but it does that very well, and it's very satisfying. The 997s certainly don't have the trailing throttle oversteer like their predecessors, but still demand a level of acclimation and practice that the Boxster and Cayman don't require. I'm not sure that adding a lot more power to the 987s would make the car more enjoyable to drive, but it would demand more expertise driving near the much higher limits where the mid-engine layout will lose its poise abruptly, much to the chagrin of an overenthusiastic driver, i.e. Carrera GT.
I find both cars gratifying to drive, even well below 8/10s They are, however, very different from each other. When I get into the Boxster S after driving the C2S the first thing I notice is that the Boxster wants to be tossed around curves and encourages the driver to do so, while the 911 still requires that the driver deliberately develop a handling method (slow in, fast out) because it doesn't naturally encourage the driver to rapidly arc around corners. The 911 needs a lot of power to provide turn exit thrust, but it does that very well, and it's very satisfying. The 997s certainly don't have the trailing throttle oversteer like their predecessors, but still demand a level of acclimation and practice that the Boxster and Cayman don't require. I'm not sure that adding a lot more power to the 987s would make the car more enjoyable to drive, but it would demand more expertise driving near the much higher limits where the mid-engine layout will lose its poise abruptly, much to the chagrin of an overenthusiastic driver, i.e. Carrera GT.
The very same is valid between the CS and the base Cayman... that's the reason why Chris Harris (EVO reviewer) bought to himself a base Cayman with 17" wheels... FUN factor.
Also, more important than power is the weight... in my book, a lighter car will always be welcomed as far as fun factor is concerned.
^^^Exactly. The Carrera S stock for stock is faster, period. And for all of those that say well give the Cayman the carrera's power and things would be different. Well yeah.. but going the other way, drop the 997's weight down to the 987's and see the gains in braking and handling as well as acceleration.
Ummm No, according to a recent magazine test a stock 997 C2S and a stock Cayman S had IDENTICAL lap times around VIR. So what I'd say is that the cars are so close in performance that the difference will come down to the place where the cars are being tested and the drivers used to test them.
I'm with Pnut. What if they had a Cayman 4 cylinder 200hp for 10k less than the current base? I'd be all over that..
The 2010 model sports cars parallel new computers. The wheels/hdd are so huge, the bhp/ghz is so high, even the lowest models they offer are still great! Somebody will always have more power or be faster.. who cares. Just have fun driving the damn thing. Thats the point.
The Ring is the only litmus test thats long enough of a course and diverse enough to account for every driving condition and favorite area of track.
Walter Roehrl ran 8:11 in a Cayman S and 7:59 in a 997 Carrera S. I think the Cayman was an auto, but I doubt that cost him any time. Most fast times are all autos/double clutch cars nowadays. Same driver, same course. And a good driver at that, so chances are he got everything out of them?
I think the new 911s are undersold on their handling. These rear engine cars are not the butt snap happy cars of old. They are one of the best handling cars in the world. So too, of course. is the Cayman/Boxster platform.
I'll make a couple broad statements here that will probably stir up a lot of stuff, but I believe they are true. I would challenge anyone to take the opposite side of the argument.
If you 'tune' a Cayman S to have the same hp/weight ratio of the 997 S, the Cayman will be the quicker car on a racetrack. In terms of handling, the Cayman S is considered a better chassis than the 997. For a race car, mid-engine is better than rear-engine.
For these reasons, I chose the Cayman S as my track car. You can modify all sorts of things to make a car better and faster, but you can't change the chassis or engine placement.
It's a shame really, the seeming disrespect that the Cayman gets. I am currently driving a 10 GT3 and the handling is impressive to say the least. That being said I had an 06 Cayman S and loved it. What a wonderful car, just always wanted a 911, moved on to an 08 Carrera S then the GT3. I always thought that the perfect car would be the Cayman S with a 3.8 / 355 hp engine. A great combination of power and balance. I still love the Cayman and this new CS has me thinking..............
I went from a heavily tracked Cayman S 2007 to a brand new 2010 GT3 (see my post at 6speed). Having driven my car as well as many modded Caymans at the track (Sebring, PBIR, Homestead) the Cayman isnt in the same stratosphere as the GT3, modded or not. Same driver, new 997.2 S vs Cayman S, on any track where there isnt an autocross setup, the Carrera will eat the Cayman day in and day out. I loved my Cayman but there are some serious shortcoming besides just power. The braking system is flat out horrible (see Grand Am requiring the ABS units be pulled) and there are other little things in the suspension setup that CAN be overcome but Porsche makes it very hard. I dont doubt that a Cayman COULD be fantastically awesome and the equal of a GT3, but it will never happen with the emasculation that Porsche marketing believes in.
Yep! You got it right. My journey to a 10 GT3 included, as previously mentioned, a Cayman S and a Carrera S. Neither car holds a candle, track wise to the GT3......... Enuff said.
Still, both the Cayman S and C2S were simply awesome, engaging cars, and I wouldn't hesitate to buy either one again. They all deliver enormous feedback and perform in an exemplary fashion. With realtively minor mods you can really change the picture, and with proper driving skills will embarass a lot of folks in C2s's and even GT3's. I've seen it.
If Porsche were to drop the 3.8L 385HP S engine into the Cayman they would be bound to upgrade all the other systems on the car as well, brakes, transmission, suspension, body work for larger rear rims, etc. Once that's done it's no longer a $60K car but a $100K car. The vast majority of current and prospective Cayman owners are not going to pay this kind of money for the "ultimate Cayman". Such an "uber Cayman" would potentially be a competitor to the GT3 except that crowd will inevitably denounce the 9A1 block with its "not a true dry sump oiling system" as inferior to the Metzger engine, leaving it to a few voices crying in the wind to defend the car, while sales die a slow death.
FWIW--
I find these cayman vs 911 discussions interesting. I used to have a Cayman (base) but bought a new 997.2 C2S pdk 4 months ago. The power difference is amazing. These have both been daily drivers for me.
Both fanatastic, just different. I could easily buy a Cayman again at some point too. I disagree with the poster here that said driving a Cayman makes you a better driver. I think the opposite. The cayman is so remarkably poised and balanced, it's almost effortless. The 911 requires more skills. Analogy:
the cayman is like driving the perfect racehorse, the 911 is like driving a comparitively wild, more untamed horse, that could get away from you. Yes, it holds you back some, but on the other hand there is a thrill with the wild ride.
FWIW--
I find these cayman vs 911 discussions interesting. I used to have a Cayman (base) but bought a new 997.2 C2S pdk 4 months ago. The power difference is amazing. These have both been daily drivers for me.
Both fanatastic, just different. I could easily buy a Cayman again at some point too. I disagree with the poster here that said driving a Cayman makes you a better driver. I think the opposite. The cayman is so remarkably poised and balanced, it's almost effortless. The 911 requires more skills. Analogy: the cayman is like driving the perfect racehorse, the 911 is like driving a comparitively wild, more untamed horse, that could get away from you. Yes, it holds you back some, but on the other hand there is a thrill with the wild ride.
Though you can also build skill riding that perfect racehorse to its maximum potential. ie: its easy to drive a Cayman hard & fast, but you can still push it to its limits and learn to tame it. I think thats why sometimes I like turning off PSM just so the rear end will slip out on me and I have to work harder to control it, etc.
I'm anxious for info as well, but I don't think we'll have any new info until (hopefully) the LA Auto Show which is November 19. Let's cross our fingers till then
Likewise, very very keen to know more. I've decided to stick to my Spyder order (2 more sleeps to delivery. Woohoo!) and make a decision whether to order the Club Sport when more info surfaces.
I think this car is going to be a future classic, like the 968CS.
I don't know why, but I've been repeatedly dreaming of one in Gulf Racing colours. I'll wait to see it in the flesh before ordering but I believe I will order...
I'll get the lexan rear window, PDK and track pack, then do my best to keep the car immaculate for the next 30 years...ah who am I kidding?!
Can't wait for more info - scouring Google/Bing every day but nothing comes up, would have thought there'd by spyshots or videos of it testing the 'ring by now!
Seems like for a street model, you could get a Gen II CS, lighter wheels, some performance upgrades, and have pretty close to the same car, with more comfort on the road. JH
The last pic is funny, the guy with the gold chain!
Looks like a Cayman S with GT3 style wheels and an aerokit package which you could purchase today, so no I don't think this is the Club Sport or "R" version, etc.
The last pic is funny, the guy with the gold chain!
Looks like a Cayman S with GT3 style wheels and an aerokit package which you could purchase today, so no I don't think this is the Club Sport or "R" version, etc.