Well shoot yesterday I made a new avatar and today I had to update it again because my car churned out more horsepower!
We put the car on the dyno and did some baseline runs. I should caveat that since the last time I dyno'd at 317 HP to the rear wheels my engine has been torn down and "spruced" up a bit so our baseline was now 322HP or about 5hp more than my previous high. Hey, not bad.
So while leaving the car on the dyno we took off the IPD plenum and stock throttle body and installed the Softronicplenum and larger throttle body. WE MADE NO OTHER CHANGES. What that mean is that I did NOT flash my car yet with the Softronicplenum-flash, I still have the regular Softronic Cayman flash in my car that has spent the last month adjusting for the IPD plenum and the rest of my mods. I KNEW that this was not the IDEAL or MAX hp combination, but what we wanted to do was to see what change if any was immediate by swapping out the plenum and larger throttle body.
As you can see in the dyno chart the change was small, as I would expect, from a car like mine that is already heavily modified. We got a 4-5hp gain (we hit 327 one run but had a spurious reading in the lower rpms so we threw it out) from just the mechanical parts swap. Some parts on the dyno were higher, some were lower, but we did not give the ECU any time to adjust to the new hardware we just ran 3 runs and immediately compared the results.
What I plan to do is drive the car around with the standard softronic software in it to let it max out then go back to the dyno in a few weeks and check the new baseline, then flash with the SoftronicPlenum software flash and see what that does for the equation. I didn't want to introduce too many variables at one time.
I had forgotten how deafening my car is on the dyno, I shot some video but it doesn't do it justice, my ears are still ringing! I want to thank the fine folks at Imagine Auto for once again setting me up with the dyno time. One other minor note and I'll post another topic on it, the rubber line included with the Softronicplenum kit works fine for the factory AOS, but I have the Motorsports one where the fitting comes off at a different angle so we had to modify the hose. I have pics and I've alerted Softronic to this for anyone who might have the Motorsports unit.
All in all I'm pleased with both the results of my engine internals work and just the hardware change over because I'm certain the software flash will get me more in the future. Now if I extrapolate out crank HP it comes out to 385 which is more than those X51 motors...
Plenum
The plenum is the piece that goes between the Cayman throttle body and the intake runners. The factory piece is a long black plastic tube with a divider down the middle. There are aftermarket replacements which are designed to allow the air to flow easier/faster into the engine and increase horsepower and torque.
Softronic
SOFTRONIC produces DME programming and hardware to suit your companies specifications. Our current software suite is a complex matched set of programs housed in a Flash Manager and Flash Client. This software is matched with two cables, an End User and Master Cable. The SOFTRONIC proprietary flashing solution outperforms all other combinations in speed and accuracy including the factory Porsche equipment.
Here is a YouTube video of the car on the dyno with the Capristo closed then opening to a wail...
Capristo
Capristo exhaust systems for the Cayman. The Capristo valve system allows the Cayman to be relatively quiet in cruise speeds but to sound like an F1 car when the valves are open. http://www.capristoexhausts.us/Capristo_Exhausts.html
Your claim of 385 FWHP seems a bit optimistic to me. You measured 326 HP at the wheels. For the FWHP to be 385 would imply a driveline loss of 18%. This is much higher than is usually reported. Most dynos show a stock car at 260-265 HP, implying a loss of 11-13%. When Ed claimed a large flywheel HP number using an 18% driveline loss he got spanked pretty hard.
IMHO, a better way to describe your car's gains would be to cite the increase in wheel HP that has been measured. Didn't you start out at something like 265 RWHP? So you've picked up over 60 RWHP, which is a 23% gain, and is fabulous.
Ummm no that is a 15% drive train loss from 385 * .85 = 327 which was the run we tossed out but the 326 run was 326.4 so I rounded up.
I concur that one should look at wheel to wheel and yes I've gained 60 hp at the wheels. Everyone seems to like big numbers though... maybe I should call my car a GT60 ? You know like a GT40 but only 20 better!
Can you verify that by linking us to your first baseline test?
Assuming this is accurate, this represents a claimed 90 hp increase over factory specs, and you did it all with bolt on intake and exhaust mods, along with an ECU flash. That's pretty impressive. That's an increase of about 30%.
Or if it isn't all just bolt on mods, then please specify what internal modifications were made to the engine when it was apart. I'm sure people want to know how to build a 385 hp Cayman.
__________________
Originally Posted by K-Man S
elmo,
I never said I was mistaken about anything, I said that my understanding of your explanation was different from what I first thought.
Ummm no that is a 15% drive train loss from 385 * .85 = 327 which was the run we tossed out but the 326 run was 326.4 so I rounded up.
I concur that one should look at wheel to wheel and yes I've gained 60 hp at the wheels. Everyone seems to like big numbers though... maybe I should call my car a GT60 ? You know like a GT40 but only 20 better!
Can you verify that by linking us to your first baseline test?
Assuming this is accurate, this represents a claimed 90 hp increase over factory specs, and you did it all with bolt on intake and exhaust mods, along with an ECU flash. That's pretty impressive. That's an increase of about 30%.
Or if it isn't all just bolt on mods, then please specify what internal modifications were made to the engine when it was apart. I'm sure people want to know how to build a 385 hp Cayman.
You can find lots of my old dynos showing 265, 266, 267 HP at the rear wheels stock, just read say the Milltek article or AWE article, etc. I already answered up above the internal mods and the external ones are all documented in the articles section as well. I agree, 60hp over stock is quite impressive, I never thought I'd get that much and the thing is, there may still be more to be had without going to turbo or super charger.
Thanks for posting the dyno on the before and after results of the Softronics Race Plenum.
On the positve side the dyno shows a 4-5 peak HP gain but on the negitive side the dyno shows a 24 FT/LB loss of torque at aprox. 3300 rpm.
IMO the 4-5 peak HP gain would be very hard to notice but lossing 24FT/LB of torque at 3300RPM would reduce perfomance to the point that it would be noticed.
If you look at your Capristo exhaust dyno chart from 07-28-08 this dyno shows 248FT/LBS of torque at 4600 RPM and with the Softronic Race Plenum dyno you just posted torque is only 216FT/LBS at 4600 RPM and that is a loss of 32FT/LBS of torque at 4600 RPM, so do you know why you keep getting more peak HP and less low end & mid range torque.
Plenum
The plenum is the piece that goes between the Cayman throttle body and the intake runners. The factory piece is a long black plastic tube with a divider down the middle. There are aftermarket replacements which are designed to allow the air to flow easier/faster into the engine and increase horsepower and torque.
Softronic
SOFTRONIC produces DME programming and hardware to suit your companies specifications. Our current software suite is a complex matched set of programs housed in a Flash Manager and Flash Client. This software is matched with two cables, an End User and Master Cable. The SOFTRONIC proprietary flashing solution outperforms all other combinations in speed and accuracy including the factory Porsche equipment.
Capristo
Capristo exhaust systems for the Cayman. The Capristo valve system allows the Cayman to be relatively quiet in cruise speeds but to sound like an F1 car when the valves are open. http://www.capristoexhausts.us/Capristo_Exhausts.html
Very nice results, Ken, regardless of how you calculate the improvement.
I've modded all of my "fun" cars for the past 15 years or so, spending, well, more than I want to think about. Mods are a slippery slope, perhaps because the process is so exciting. (Sometimes moreso than the results.) Waking with a financial hang-over, I've sworn off modding for the CS. Anyway, I love it as is. The question going through my mind is, and I have no idea how much you've spent on upgrades, wouldn't you just rather have a GT3? I can't believe a "stripper" (ha!) GT3 is all that much more expensive than your Cayman + mods, and I'm guessing it would still out-perform your modded car.
Remember Kens car has the old Softronics software, not the one optimized for the bigger throtle body. When he installed the "new" software he will pick up torque; it will be above the old throtle body say 3300rpm all the way up. He will also pick up some additional hp, probably 4 or 5 hp. the big gains will be in torque say above 3500 to 6500rpm.
That is based on the different dynos by other members. Torque bellow 3000 rpm will be somewhat lower with the new throtle body and software. To me this was a worthwhile tradeoff. Sobodyelse might disagree.
Thanks for posting the dyno on the before and after results of the Softronics Race Plenum.
On the positve side the dyno shows a 4-5 peak HP gain but on the negitive side the dyno shows a 24 FT/LB loss of torque at aprox. 3300 rpm.
IMO the 4-5 peak HP gain would be very hard to notice but lossing 24FT/LB of torque at 3300RPM would reduce perfomance to the point that it would be noticed.
If you look at your Capristo exhaust dyno chart from 07-28-08 this dyno shows 248FT/LBS of torque at 4600 RPM and with the Softronic Race Plenum dyno you just posted torque is only 216FT/LBS at 4600 RPM and that is a loss of 32FT/LBS of torque at 4600 RPM, so do you know why you keep getting more peak HP and less low end & mid range torque.
I'm assuming because we made a sudden hardware change and didn't give the software time to adapt and that the software was not optimized for that throttle body or plenum. I suspect, or at least hope, that when I get optimized software and it has time to adapt that those numbers will come up. I also saw a fair amount of fluctuation in torque at those rpm ranges you cited which makes me think the engine itself is susceptible to torque fluctuations based on a variety of factors. Also note that it was excessively humid today which can play havoc with the results as well and the dyno operator also tends to ease the pedal to the floor as opposed to mashing it which you can see by the huge number fluctuations typically below 3000 rpm.
So, in a nutshell, I think the results are "interesting" but I wouldn't make any grand statements one way or another, they are just a step along the way to testing a full solution which I haven't had the opportunity to do yet.
Plenum
The plenum is the piece that goes between the Cayman throttle body and the intake runners. The factory piece is a long black plastic tube with a divider down the middle. There are aftermarket replacements which are designed to allow the air to flow easier/faster into the engine and increase horsepower and torque.
So but you cannot go from the "assumed" numer back to the actually measured number.
385 * .85 = 327
but 327* 1.18 = 385 or 18% drive train loss.
When you use 15% that is 327 * 1.15 = 376 and that is still before the flash.
Sure I can! Math is math! If you had a car with 385 horsepower at the crank and then you lost 15% of its power, how much power would you have left? Answer = 327hp.
Your claim of 385 FWHP seems a bit optimistic to me. You measured 326 HP at the wheels. For the FWHP to be 385 would imply a driveline loss of 18%. This is much higher than is usually reported. Most dynos show a stock car at 260-265 HP, implying a loss of 11-13%. When Ed claimed a large flywheel HP number using an 18% driveline loss he got spanked pretty hard.
Where do you think I got the formula, 327 X 1.18= 385.86/HP (18% loss)
15% would be 376.05/HP.
My last Dyno was 313WHP with the same 18% loss is 369BHP, Ken wont get spanked, but just wait and see what Ive got cookin'...
Great improvement Ken, cant wait to see what these 3.4's have yet to put down.
__________________ Techart GT (X51) RIP FASTCROC
2010 VW GTI
2009 VW Touareg
2006 Techart Cayman GT
2001 Audi A4 1.8TQ (RIP)
2001 VW Jetta 2.0
some people like the regular stock factory look, cool people modify the car. http://www.planet-9.com/reviews/show...00&ppuser=3437
Last edited by porsches4ed; 07-30-2008 at 07:48 PM.
Can you verify that by linking us to your first baseline test?
Assuming this is accurate, this represents a claimed 90 hp increase over factory specs, and you did it all with bolt on intake and exhaust mods, along with an ECU flash. That's pretty impressive. That's an increase of about 30%.
Or if it isn't all just bolt on mods, then please specify what internal modifications were made to the engine when it was apart. I'm sure people want to know how to build a 385 hp Cayman.
You ask the same question in my mind. Why does Ken's car has the highest hp and fastest 1/4mi time with the same bolt-ons that the rest of us have or can do? I suspect he has a secret recipe that he is not sharing with us.
You ask the same question in my mind. Why does Ken's car has the highest hp and fastest 1/4mi time with the same bolt-ons that the rest of us have or can do? I suspect he has a secret recipe that he is not sharing with us.
That's not true! DonelonPC dyno'd his bone stock Cayman before the IPD pleneum install and he had what 10 or 12 hp more than me stock, if he were to modify his car more he could quite probably outshine all of our numbers. Of course different dynos on different days with different cars and all that, these numbers should not be taken too literally... all I know is Ed is still trying to play catchup to my numbers! Speaking of which Keith from APR rode in my car at parade and was surprised how much torque I had down low when off-cam and crusing in a higher gear, he thought it was more powerful than Ed's car.
I'm assuming all of you have forgotten to install your Fetzer valves which are good for at least 10hp!
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I want to thank the fine folks at Imagine Auto for once again setting me up with the dyno time. One other minor note and I'll post another topic on it, the rubber line included with the 
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