Planet 9

**goodmdo1** · #1 05-17-2009, 01:37 PM

Please share any links or guidance information you could for understanding and selecting a good set of track wheels.

I've spent hours searching the forums and find good bits here and there. Many threads have posts written by members with considerable experience on the track understanding it all can be difficult to follow for the newcomer.

So far I've gained a rudimentary understanding of
construction methods (forged, low-pressure cast, gravity cast wheels)
off-sets, spacers, wheel dimensions
greater lateral forces exerted on a track wheel and greater heat cycles
need to regularly inspect track wheels for cracks, wear indication
possible need to replace mounting bolts for track wheels
OEM sizes
OEM knock-offs exist but have not been able to determine their strength

yet I have not found a good source to educate the new owner and help make an informed decision on a failry expensive modification. Additionally several good posts date back a couple of years so perhaps this information is dated now on wheel options. Has been really tough to get clear info on weights, etc.

I have an '08 Cayman S with 18 inch wheels. I want to go with 18 inch wheels as I understand tire options are more plentiful and reasonable in cost. Will start with high perf summer tires I can drive to the track and figure I don't need super sticky tires until I get several DE events under my belt. Trying to select a wheel size and type which I won't later regret.

Apologies up front if this already exists - I sure did not find it in FAQ or articles and after hours searching here, the various manufacturer sites etc figure a thread with goo selection info / links in it would help all the newcomers!

thanks,
Don

**KS-CS** · #2 05-17-2009, 02:18 PM

If you're asking for some specific recommendations, it partly depends on what your budget is - there are certainly more choices if you can afford $1000/wheel vs. $500/wheel.

If money is a concern, I would look at OEM take-offs being sold in the Classifieds on this website or from sponsor like WheelEnhancement.com; or watch for specials on name brands (e.g. OZ, Volk, Enkei, etc) from WheelEnhancement.com or Tire Rack. If you can afford Forged (e.g. BBS, Champion, etc), then that is usually the best in terms of strength and weight, but they are almost always going to be a good deal more expensive.

You are correct that most people would recommend 18" for the greater tire choices. Widths depend on whether you plan to go wider on your tires, or stay with stock sizes.

Jeff G in NE GA · #3 05-17-2009, 02:46 PM

Hi Don. I agree with everything KS-CS said above. There are a lot of good wheels out there. On the track I would pay particular attention to weight (unsprung and rotational). For the money, I like the Volk Racing wheels alot. They're one-piece forged, very lightweight, and not as expensive as Champions, etc. Regards, -Jeff

sixisenuff · #4 05-18-2009, 07:31 AM

I'm a new Cayman owner, but an experienced track instructor. If you're going racing, you need the best and biggest wheels for your racing class. If you're going to driving events occasionally like most of us, you need a set of strong wheels in 18" size that won't break the bank. Light is good, but strong and bulletproof is more important. I'd definitely look at 18" take-offs. The stock Porsche wheels are very good construction and will last without a lot of attention. The really expensive and exotic wheels will be lighter but fussier, requiring periodic inspection and maintenance.

Also, try to have a track setup that will not have you playing mechanic all day when you should be learning driving skills. Have everything ready to go so that all you have to be concerned about is tire pressures.

Set your car to standard pressures for the first session. When you come in, immediately check pressures while the tires are still hot. Set them at 40 psi on all 4 tires. This probably means you'll be letting air out. Next session, go out without checking, then check when you come in and set them all at 40psi again. If the car is pushing, lower the pressure in the back by a pound or two. If the car is twitchy, lower the fronts a pound or two. That should get you in the ball park. There are a lot of other things you can try, like tire temperatures etc. I won't go into that here. This will get your car handling reasonably well on the track and you should have some fun with it without dwelling too much on the technical stuff.

Put a set of Nitto NT-01 tires on in the stock sizes. You will not believe what these wheels and tires will do for the grip. It will take several years to learn to get all the car is capable of with this setup. When your skills are in shape, you can go further...just add money, but try and resist that temptation until you really feel confident on the track and have gotten out of Novice class. Don't waste your money on fancy magnesium or 3 piece wheels until you earn your stripes. By then you'll know what you want.

Talk to guys at the track who have the same ideas you do about what you want to get out of the sport. There are many levels to this stuff. Porsche Club Racing is serious stuff costing serious money. A couple weekends every year at the track is great for most people to explore the limits of their cars and learn the fundamentals of driving well at speed.

Your expensive wheels should be the ones you show off the car with on the street. Track wheels get dirty and can get beat up. You change tires on track wheels a lot more often than street wheels. I bought a used set of BBS RX for my M3 and used them over 10 years on the track. They have been off several corners of several tracks and I still prefer their look to the stock wheels. They were one-piece wheels 1/2" wider than stock. They were not the heaviest, but far from the lightest wheels around. They are strong and require no maintenance and this is the best thing about them.

When you learn how to drive properly, you can get much more out your car with stock wheels than the guy who puts the biggest tires that will fit on his car. There is a joy to controlled sliding of the car that you miss with huge tires. I've had a couple students whose tires were so big for the car (e36M3 with 315 tires) that they got away with terrible driving never learning anything. The car didn't have enough power for them to get it out of shape!

Don't get caught up in wheel ad rhetoric when you're starting this sport. Special wheels are for a very focused few, not for most track driving event drivers. You can sell your take-offs to guys like me when you want to buy serious wheels. I'll be the one sliding my car around the turns and passing most of the field on my stock rims.

beez · #5 05-18-2009, 09:40 AM

Adding another opinion - A good pair of take-offs makes perfect sense for someone new to the sport. But, I would add, if you're new or fairly new, don't run right out and get a set of NT-01s to put on them - get some good, reasonably priced (Falkens, Kuhmos, etc.) somewhat sticky street tires. Learn to drive fast on these. Street tires tell you when they're going to let loose - track tires do not. When you really feel you're out-driving the street tires, think about going to stickier R-comp rubber. You'll end up a better driver in the long run for it.

brad

lisocayman · #6 05-18-2009, 10:39 AM

Definitely listen to Beez. You should go through a couple sets of street tires before you move up to Rcomps. Learn the car at the limits first and raise the limits with Rcomps. I highly recommend getting a set of the OEM cayman S as take offs. They are very light for OEM cast wheels and until you get very very fast you won't see a benefit from more expensive wheels. I run Nitto NT-01's on OEM Cayman S rims (track only) and I currently hold the PCA TT08 class record at Thunderhill, don't worry this record will fall

Can't beat these rims for the money.

sixisenuff · #7 05-18-2009, 11:04 AM

Brad:

I agree with your street tire statement for novice drivers but see no need for track only wheels if you're only going to run street tires.

Make sure the street tires you have good construction without too much tread on the outside edge of the tire. Sometimes the only way to know that is to ask people who run them. I have a half-worn set of Michelin 19's on my car that would probably be OK for a track run if the heat weren't too excessive. Track driving will tear up the edges of a lot of street tires, especially ones with fresh, tall tread. Cupping of the outside edge is common. Tearing off of chunks of tread is also possible with the wrong tire.

Which street tires are good on the track? I never tried Pirelli P-Zero but I've heard they are pretty good at holding their edges together.

I've never had much luck with any non-R tires on the track. Nittos RA-1s are the most street-like R tire I've ever used. I don't consider NT-01s to be super-fast track tires. They're sort of in-between the heavy meats and street tires.

A lot of guys use these as their regular street tires. They ride very well for track tires, are DOT legal and will last 8 to 10,000 miles on the street...summer driving only. I like them because they're not hyper-expensive, last for several track weekends, drive well on the street and have enough tread to get you home in the rain in a pinch. (drive the speed limit or less and keep both hands on the wheel in case of aquaplaning. Treads are a little noisy, but not as bad as some. They also give warning before they let loose, at least they did on my 235/40/17 X 4 shod M3.

If you're to the point where you're looking for track only-wheels, I'm thinking these Nittos are the ticket. If you're a novice, just use the wheels and tires that came on the car.

With a real prepared Cayman going for broke, I'd go with BFG or Hoosiers. I wouldn't use any of these tires or even go to a track event until I'd attended to the power steering cooling issue (underdrive pulley? Hayden Oil Cooler? Insulated lines?).

I also would attend to the oil seperator issue and I plan to do both before taking my Cayman on the track, but I think the power steering thing is the most urgent of the two projects. Performance mods will come later if at all.

The oversized BFG and Hoosier options would be for cars with lowered and stiffer suspensions, roll cages and harnesses and the two mechanical enhancements above.

I don't know what level goodmdo1 drives at, so I can't really say what tires he needs. I don't see anyone getting in trouble with NT-01s though. They don't have any odd behavior that would throw someone off. They just stick better and won't flake their treads off.

I recently taught at a school full of Cobras, Vipers and other really hot looking cars that had a lot of money and time poured into them where the drivers were really inexperienced. Some were just clueless and there didn't seem to be enough instructors to go around for all of them. One Cobra had a single roll hoop and the poor guy wasn't allowed to have anyone else in the car. He was clueless and without help all weekend. Too much car and too little driver is no fun and can be really unsafe.

mlpor · #8 06-17-2009, 09:40 PM

Tirerack is always a good place to start looking, if only because of their size and website selection tools. When I began to look for additional wheel sets back in 2006, I found off the shelf selection was somewhat limited vis-a-vis rear wheels to 9.5 widths in 18" wheel sizes. That seems to have changed lately, with Tirerack's site listing quite a few 10" widths in 18" rims for Cayman. I prefer 18" for track (& street use for that matter) as they're (a) generally lighter than 19"+; and (b) offer a wider and ussually less expensive tire selection of tires. In 2006, 10" & wider rear wheels to fit the Cayman were in limited supply unless went to a custom wheel manufacturer like Fiske or Forgeline etc.

It's your car, & your decision but for track use, particularly if you think you will begin using "sticky" tires, I'd suggest the stronger the wheel you can find/buy, the better. The track isn't the place to have a wheel fail, and the Cayman is capable of generating considerable cornering loads and forces.

Also I think you will find the "lighter" the wheel, the better. My Cayman came with the optional OEM 19" wheels. I've had occasion to fit the car with sets of both 18" and 19" tires, as well as run through several sets of 18" track rubber. However I have not run any 19" track tires on the car. I believe I can easily tell when 18" vs. 19" wheels are on the car. IMO, I like the 18" wheels feel & performance "better" both on the track and on the street.

For a less than "scientific" control point, I also have a relative inexpensive (when compated to the cost of the BBS RS-GT's) 18" wheels. The inexpensive 18" wheel set is @ 5-6lbs front, and @ 8lbs rear (18x11") heavier per wheel than the BBS wheels. Comparing the light 18's to the heavier set, I think I can feel the additional weight affect the performance of the car ~ again on both the street and track.

Unfortunately "lighter" and "stronger" where wheels are concerned don't always go well together with out also adding "money." Generally, forged wheels have the reputation for being the strongest pound for pound. BBS is a well known wheel manufacturer for forged wheels. There are others. Rays Engineering (Volk Wheels). I'm not sure about the Enkie wheel option tirerack lists for the Cayman, which .....
in a long & round about way brings me to the main reason for this post ~

In 2006 when I got my Cayman, off the shelf 18" after market REAR wheel choices were large limited to a maximum 9.5" width. Tirerack 2009 18" wheel offerings now include a number of 10" rear widths ~ nice if one wants to consider running 295's in the rear. In kicking tires looking at the "new" 2009 Cayman S option list (as published on www.edmuds.com ), offers some interesting description of some of the 19" Wheel/tire options. Edmunds purchase guide lists 5 optional 19" wheel fitments.

Option:
404 - 19" Turbo Wheel ~ ? 11" rear wheel
XRR - 19" Carrera Wheel ~ ? 11.5" rear, w/ 305/30s
407 - 19" Sport Design Wheel ~ ? 11.5" rear, w/ 295/30s'
405 - 19" Carrera Classic Wheel ~ ? 11" rears,
419 - 19" Carrera S II Wheel ~ ? orig 265/35 x 19s

as copied from the Edmunds Cayman "Info" sheet for listed options: ".....

404 is described as "19" Turbo Wheel Includes 19" x 8.0" front and 19" x 11.0" rear alloy Turbo wheels with 235/35ZR19 front and 305/30ZR19 rear performance tires."

XRR19" Carrera Sport Wheel
Includes 19" x 8.5" front and 19" x 11.5" rear alloy Carrera Sport wheels with 235/35ZR19 front and 305/30ZR19 rear performance tires.

XRR19" Carrera Sport Wheel
Includes 19" x 8.5" front and 19" x 11.5" rear alloy Carrera Sport wheels with 235/35ZR19 front and 305/30ZR19 rear performance tires.

40519" Carrera Classic Wheel
Includes 19" x 8.0" front and 19" x 11.0" rear alloy Carrera Classic wheels with 235/35ZR19 front and 295/30ZR19 rear performance tires. ...."

No specific tire size description is provided for the 419 Carrera S II Wheel. Maybe this is the old standard 265/35x19 rear fitment?

Anyhow, my question is, Who's running 295 &/or 305 rear tires on their Cayman?

I guess the 25-30+ bhp bump the new motor gives the car, or the optional rear limited slip must justify the additional +6cm or more rear rubber on the car. Or maybe Porsche just wants to protect prospective new Cayman buyers from feelings or rear rubber inadequacy when comparing their cars to the 997 crowd.

Certainly I find, if the Edmunds option list description is in fact correct, the fact Porsche is now offering an 11" and 11.5" rear wheel option interesting.

Anyone know of any ready made off the shelf 11" to 11.5" wide 18" wheels to fit the Cayman?

**Kestrel** · #9 06-17-2009, 10:02 PM

I am no expert, so definitely listen to the others who have posted here... but I'm no novice to the track either. I'm looking for a set of used Carrera III wheels for use at the track. They are 18" and come 8" in front and 10" in back -- plenty wide for some nice, fat shoes!

Oh, and I have already installed an under-drive pulley for the [unexpected] power steering engineering design flaw that Porsche seems unwilling to address.