Planet 9

**jcriggs** · #1 05-14-2009, 06:38 PM

Wow, it looks like 6 Cayman's are signed up for the Schattenbaum DE at Summit Point on 18/19 May. Look forward to meeting everyone. Let me know if anyone is interested in a GTG for dinner on Monday evening. I know a good place in Charlestown where my sister-in-law is the Chef.

DaveD · #2 05-14-2009, 08:34 PM

I'm interested, but will have to check with a couple other folks first (one may chime in here..). I'll look you up on Monday. I'm in the gray CS, #896.

**jcriggs** · #3 05-21-2009, 06:58 PM

Had a great two days running with the Schattenbaum crew and hanging out with fellow Caymanclub members. The weather was perfect and the amount track time was awsome.

Here is some video of the combined Red/Black/White group at the last session:

Here is a composite video of the White group:

FT · #4 05-22-2009, 04:30 AM

Nice driving as always John. It looks like you have solved the mysteries of T9

**jcriggs** · #5 05-22-2009, 03:45 PM

Originally Posted by FT

Nice driving as always John. It looks like you have solved the mysteries of T9

Yes, thanks to your tip. I also tried a new strategy on T1-3 that seems better. You missed a fantastic DE. Small run groups, 25+ minute sessions, great weather, and a nice group of people.

FT · #6 05-22-2009, 05:29 PM

yes, I really wanted to be there, but I had to save money for the VIR Fest; I cannot wait for the 4 days of VIR. I am even thinking of getting into that Racepak group buy, so that I can have baseline data saved before I start any meaningful modifications.
I could not tell exactly what you did differently in T1-3, but looked faster for sure. Care to elaborate, maybe I can take advantage too

?

DaveD · #7 05-22-2009, 07:54 PM

John,
It was great to meet you. You should have stuck around for the last combined session. There were only 3 cars on track! Thanks for the vids. It shows that my pointing skills are coming along nicely..

Since you brought up turns 1-3, I have a question. I found that I was loosing ground at the exit of 1-2 compared to most cars. In looking at my data, I see I was only turning around 3000 rpm in 3rd gear. Assuming I can't find a way to increase my speed, I'm wondering if 2nd gear might give me a boost exiting the corner. Have either of you given this a try?

thanks!
Dave

FT · #8 05-22-2009, 10:43 PM

Dave, I take T1-2 with 3rd gear, and I am around 39-4000 RPM. I think it is possible that you may want to take a look at your entry speed and getting on the gas before the apex. I tended to focus on treshold braking going into T1, and loosing on my focus of maintaining momentum. During a BMW event's no-brakes exercise, I found that I could take T1, T3, T10 much faster than I normally was, and then I stoped trying to treshold brake and focus on maintaining speed.

In order to use 2nd gear, I have to wait until the last moment of turn-in, and that generally distracts me. That is why, I shift to 3rd shortly after I am on the brakes, then focus on my speed to go through that turn.

I am not sure what tires you use, but the R888s certainly help keeping at 4K RPM.

DaveD · #9 05-23-2009, 12:17 AM

Thanks for the reply, FT. Guess I'll just concentrate on technique, and maybe some front end alignment, rather than trying 2nd. I can see how it would be distracting.

Dave

**jcriggs** · #10 05-23-2009, 04:13 PM

Originally Posted by FT

Dave, I take T1-2 with 3rd gear, and I am around 39-4000 RPM. I think it is possible that you may want to take a look at your entry speed and getting on the gas before the apex. I tended to focus on treshold braking going into T1, and loosing on my focus of maintaining momentum. During a BMW event's no-brakes exercise, I found that I could take T1, T3, T10 much faster than I normally was, and then I stoped trying to treshold brake and focus on maintaining speed.

In order to use 2nd gear, I have to wait until the last moment of turn-in, and that generally distracts me. That is why, I shift to 3rd shortly after I am on the brakes, then focus on my speed to go through that turn.

I am not sure what tires you use, but the R888s certainly help keeping at 4K RPM.

FT - That was one of the changes I made. You are exactly right in that threshold braking and going into 2nd looses momentum. In the later sessions I was not braking nearly as hard going into T1 and then shifted into 3rd while keeping momentum and RPMs up. One other thing I tried was to keep to the left longer out of T1 and not fight the car to get to the right too soon. For T3 I am still debating as to what is the better strategy -- keeping it in 3rd all the way between T2 and T3 or go to 4th. I found that if I stayed in 3rd I would ride the redline for half the way between T2/3. By going to 4th, I gained more speed but needed to downshift to 3rd going into T3. While it was a lot of shifting, it seemed to work better for me.

FT · #11 05-23-2009, 05:47 PM

yes, I struggled with the same issue between T2-3, and tried different ways and eventually settled on riding 3rd gear at 7K RPM, braking lightly and hitting WOT as soon as I can going up the hill.

Next for me is coming to grips with no braking into T4, I tried it couple of times and it felt ok, but I wasn't on full throttle on 4th gear going into it. There is just no room for error on that corner at 100-105 mph.

FT · #12 05-23-2009, 06:52 PM

Don't you think this discussion would be even more interesting if we all had data logger and share log files?

The Racepak group buy is still going on, any one interested in sharing costs to purchase G2X; total would be $1010 including TrackVision sw for data overlay to video

**jcriggs** · #13 05-24-2009, 12:32 AM

Originally Posted by FT

Next for me is coming to grips with no braking into T4, I tried it couple of times and it felt ok, but I wasn't on full throttle on 4th gear going into it. There is just no room for error on that corner at 100-105 mph.

I hear you! That is a turn I don't want to mess with. I have not been able to go through there without touching my brakes first before turn in.

**jcriggs** · #14 05-24-2009, 12:40 AM

Originally Posted by FT

Don't you think this discussion would be even more interesting if we all had data logger and share log files?

The Racepak group buy is still going on, any one interested in sharing costs to purchase G2X; total would be $1010 including TrackVision sw for data overlay to video

FT - I've been thinking about a data logger but don't know about Racepak. I see that a lot of people are using the Traqmate system. Have you researched the differences? Any details on one over the other? How about installation?

J

FT · #15 05-24-2009, 01:31 AM

I have used data acquisition extensively in my old days, it used to be a pain to capture data and then analyze it, but it gave insights like nothing else. Today, things are better, the software is more sophisticated and faster. The key to the whole thing is really the software; if sw is cumbersome, it will be difficult to analyze data.

I have been looking into 3 systems, MaxQdata, Traqmate and Racepak G2X. I used maxqdata during my autox days, and the MQ-200 series are nice as it reads data off your ODBII, I used to be a reseller of it. You can add GPS and video and software to overlay data on video is included. I like the ODBII option as you don't have to hard-wire any sensors. The whole system is about $1K. However, it is bulky and extensibility is limited IMO. Overall, I am used to it, I used to rent my unit to autoxers and analyze data for them at nominal fees; it kinda paid for some of the costs.

The group buy for Traqmate Complete is currently at $850; includes GPS, data collector, cables and data over video software. It is probably the most used, so comparative data is plentiful. Several of my friends that use it for spec Miata racing think its software is a little difficult to use, but none have the experience in analyzing data, so I don't just take their word for it. It looks alright to me from the screen shot and video demo on the traqmate site. The one down side it seems, which I am trying to confirm at this time, is the RPM connectivity may require an additional $200 module. The whole thing then will costs $1050.

Racepak seems the most professional and extensible out of the three to me. The group buy includes a lot, $810, including the RPM connector. The only thing it does not include is the data over video software, and you have to purchase TrackVision seperately for $200. So, at the end, the whole thing will cost $1010.

You can find the details on Traqmate and Racepak at these threads:
Racepak G2X and IQ3 Data Logger Group Buy - Rennlist Discussion Forums
Traqmate Group Buy - Rennlist Discussion Forums
Traqmate connection: My traqmate + traqdata install - Rennlist Discussion Forums

So at the end all them will cost about the same. But because of the extensibility and the dash unit I am leaning on the Racepak G2X at this time, but I haven't made up my mind just yet. I have couple of questions sent to MaxQdata and Traqmate about connecting Aiptek video camera and bluetooth, it may sway me another direction.

You can wait if you'd like until I buy one, try it in your car and see if you like it. If you like it, we can share it, or I can just rent it out to you and others as need it

DaveD · #16 05-24-2009, 02:24 AM

I have the traqmate and one of the things I really like about it is how easy the software is to use. There are a few ways to get the RPM input. You can get the $200 traqdata II, the $69 traqsync, or the $49 traqtach interface. I got the traqsync because it allows you to power the traqmate DVR on and off from the control panel, which was important to me since I have that also.

Some of the other systems appear to have more capability, but the traqmate seems to be a popular choice and at the time it was the only one that had a group buy. It provides more data than I can use at the moment, so it more than meets my needs for now.

hth,
Dave

FT · #17 05-24-2009, 03:49 AM

I knew my friends were making too much of the software of traqmate. How easy has it been for you to pull the RPM signal out into the traqsync Dave?

DaveD · #18 05-24-2009, 03:32 PM

I got the RPM signal from the ECU. There is an article on this site how to do it. Not sure of the title, I think it was 'adding rpm input to traqmate' or something like that.

Hook up of the system involves hooking power and antenna connections to the sensor unit, along with connecting the display unit. There is also a control cable from the sensor unit to the dvr if you want to trigger that with the traqmate. I imagine other makes have similar connections. I mounted my sensor unit under the passenger seat and the DVR in the storage bin behind the drivers left shoulder. When I'm not using it, I can remove the display unit and camera and everything else is hidden.

Dave

**jcriggs** · #19 05-24-2009, 06:51 PM

Originally Posted by DaveD

I got the RPM signal from the ECU. There is an article on this site how to do it. Not sure of the title, I think it was 'adding rpm input to traqmate' or something like that.

Hook up of the system involves hooking power and antenna connections to the sensor unit, along with connecting the display unit. There is also a control cable from the sensor unit to the dvr if you want to trigger that with the traqmate. I imagine other makes have similar connections. I mounted my sensor unit under the passenger seat and the DVR in the storage bin behind the drivers left shoulder. When I'm not using it, I can remove the display unit and camera and everything else is hidden.

Dave

Dave - do you have any video with the Traqmate integrated data (rpm, track map, etc) you can share? Also, do you have to use their bullet cam or or can you use your own video camera?

DaveD · #20 05-24-2009, 08:45 PM

John,
Yes, I have a couple things but they are both too big to post directly here.

First is a screen shot of the default data you get without video. It shows a track map that is actually the gps data from your run. There is a cursor on start/finish, and if you click on play, the cursor will move around the track with data displayed as the cursor travels around the track. You can play back your entire multi-lap run or just select a single lap. You can also select portions of the track using 'segment analysis' and can compare portions of each lap. It is also possible to pull in data from more than one run or someone elses run, and compare them. The default does not display rpm, but it is available in an additional graph. As the cursor moves around the track there is another cursor that moves thru the graph.

The other thing I have is a video of a couple laps. This is the default video layout with a 'dashboard' display added to the video. This was exported from the traqmate software, which hurt the quality a little. I'm not real happy with the quality of the video as it looks too contrasty. This may be because the exposure is getting confused by the dark interior of the car. The camera is very wide angle. I'll be calling the supplier about it next week. As a side note, this was my best lap of the day during the last run on Tuesday. At my instructors suggestion I stayed in 4th thru T3. Revs were around 4K, and I seemed to do pretty well thru there vs others.

The screen shot is a bmp about 2mb and the vid is rpm about 100mb. Any suggestions how to get them to you? I'm not up to speed on sharing video stuff...

Dave