Planet 9

peter f cummiskey · #1 08-12-2008, 09:02 PM

As is the case with most of the members of this club; the obsession of owning and driving a Cayman is mirrored closely with the education and pure entertainment of being a member of the Cayman Club. After reading the other autmotive forums, it is clear that this club has the energy and drive that all the others do not.

As more and more Cayman models and modifications evolve and as the membership increases in size, I was just wondering how long this strange, but interesting personality of the Cayman Club will last.

Having said all that, and to get to the point without boring you all further, I was just wondering if this club should consider expanding its' horizons by doing the following:

1. Charging members a nominal fee to allow some modicum of independence from its' advertisers as well as using the monies to support the club for research and continue the guarenteed support of the moderators, who by the way have done a great job. There are many things that could be done with added resources... and we all know what the are.... dyno's, trial mods, testing and verifying advertisements, etc... Maybe even having the club own its' own car -- do the testing on its' own -- you never know...

2. Paying the club on a "fee for" basis to answer simple questions without having to research numerouse strings/ and or get opinions directly provided to its' members as to how, what where and why modifications can be accomplished. For lazy newbies like me...

I joined this club to improve my car; period... Aside from learning about my car and what mods were right for me, I also received a bonus... entertainment. But, I do wish that I had access to certain information that for example Ken has -- ie. how do you get 320 hp at the wheels -- yes, yes, I just read the posting, but it would have been nice to know all these mods and their affects while my mods were being purchased and employed... Now I have to research and go back to the drawing board...
I will also add that I would like this club to be specific about monitering and updating the advanced mods that some of our members have; ie. TPC Turbo -- upsides and downsides. Ken just recently turned me on to a member in Ohio who has sucessfully converted his Boxster with a x-51.

All for now...

**K-Man S** · #2 08-12-2008, 09:57 PM

Peter,

Thanks for the thoughts. I do have some ideas of where I'd like to take the site moving forward and while we currently don't have any membership fees to access any areas of the site, it is something the software supports and something we could employ as long as it provided value to the members and members who wanted whatever the access/capabilities would be would pay for it. Any suggestions as to price range for what you are thinking? Annual subscriptions are the easiest in the software.

As an example, one item I have considered is a Cayman buying service. You join the for fee area, submit your desired configuration and we shop it around to the various dealership sponsors to try and get you the best deal and most timely delivery. This allows all of our sponsors who are dealers at say a certain level to compete for Cayman sales and saves the buyer the headache of having to do all of that legwork themselves. I know there are similar brokerage services but typically they operate only regionally and they often have hidden fees and kickbacks, so I'm thinking of something a little "better" although that's not something the software supports so I'd have to cook up a little something in the software to make it happen, it could be done, just a little work on my end.

As for other items, private areas, ideas, etc. I am open to suggestions from our member population.

I also want to point out that currently we are the #3 Porsche site in the world, sometimes we are #2 on any given day but on average we are #3. Well #1 and #2 are now owned by the same company which is raising advertising prices and not giving the sites the personal attention they had previously. While #3 is good, I don't think I ever set out to do anything with "I want to be #3" in mind. I am currently researching ways we can expand and become #1. I also had an employee of the parent company tell me privately that since his company owned #1 and #2 why would they even be interested in owning this site, we're #3 and get about 1/3rd the traffic of the #1 site. My competitive type A personality kicks in and that point and wants to respond "because I will not rest until you are no longer #1 and we are"

Let's face it, there is no other site on the web that has as much information about a single model car as this site does, certainly not for a car only released a couple of model years ago. I see no reason why we cannot repeat the formula for other models and bring them together into a family of sites offering more bang for your buck than anywhere else on the web.

I dream big though...

If others dream big and want to be a part of the venture I'm certainly open to suggestions and the interest of other parties to make the dream a reality.

cheerIO · #3 08-12-2008, 11:15 PM

I would just like to say. I love this site and really appreciate it.

But... if it goes to a subscription based model where you have to pay to have access to it, I would be sorely disappointed.

My belief is that since the conception of the public internet, it has been all about freedom of information. People can learn about things they have never seen, talk to people in areas they would normally never go, connect with people they would never have been able to connect with. And they can all do this with a relatively small entry fee of a computer and a connection.

Like many others, I am already frustrated at the lack of information available about our cars. For some reason information is withheld by the manufacture and private individuals like no other cars I have ever had experience with. I have been working on cars for ~20 years, been involved with many clubs and many more website forums. And the turning point for me has always been finding great forums with knowledgeable people that wanted to help others for the sake of helping. Not for the sake of cashing in because they have a piece of knowledge that you don't.

I fail to see how funding a website to buy a relatively few products to review and post findings is going to help the majority. In my opinion you would get a lot more information if you just fostered a healthy board with productive members that share information in a professional non biased manner on the things they have done or tried. This board is already doing that. The forums are wonderful and there are great "article" and "documents" sections put together mostly from the help of the members, not just a managing group of a website.

To my eyes, the site is growing great and going in the right direction. Kudos to all who make it happen behind the scenes and mostly to all the Members that make it happen period.

Do it for the love of the cars. Not for the love of the money.

**K-Man S** · #4 08-13-2008, 12:40 AM

CheerIO,

Maybe I misunderstood Peter, but I thought he said an ADDITIONAL area of the site and/or ADDITIONAL services that would be for fee. I don't think anyone is talking about turning this entire site into a subscription site. I won't do that, I don't want to do that. If there are additional items, services, etc. that could be added to bring in additional income, however, I am in favor of that if it makes sense to do, the car buying service example that I gave above and being just that a possible example.

Nitro8472 · #5 08-13-2008, 02:49 AM

While I like your idea (Ken) about the "brokerage", but I dont agree with #1 and #2 in peter's post.

1. Charging members a nominal fee to allow some modicum of independence from its' advertisers as well as using the monies to support the club for research and continue the guarenteed support of the moderators, who by the way have done a great job. There are many things that could be done with added resources... and we all know what the are.... dyno's, trial mods, testing and verifying advertisements, etc... Maybe even having the club own its' own car -- do the testing on its' own -- you never know...

2. Paying the club on a "fee for" basis to answer simple questions without having to research numerouse strings/ and or get opinions directly provided to its' members as to how, what where and why modifications can be accomplished. For lazy newbies like me...

I dont like forums who charge for membership, as cheerIO said, forums are about being free information (as in free of charge and of personal biases).

And do newbies have to pay to get info??! I dont agree there, I dont think many people would pay to get initial newbie info, I wouldnt even agree to get paid to give such info if I have it!

Now the "fee-for" as suggested by Peter and improved by Ken is a good idea, service that "make things easier in the real world" are worth a fee for!

________________________

"Sir! We're surrounded!" - "Excellent! We can shoot in any direction!"

A good car will get you from point A to point B. A great car... will just get you into trouble!

peter f cummiskey · #6 08-13-2008, 04:21 AM

Sorry, I was'nt as clear as I might be, but I was never trying to suggest that this site convert to be a fee paid one, just adding additional services or a mirror site where I could be directed to purchase products and services including information that was tailored to my particular expereince level......and get more direct opinions of these products and services on a fast track... .. It would be nice to have someone, with a lot of expereince to explain the mods, purchase the mods, and have them show up at my door --- I have spent many untold hours discussing these mods with sponsors (all of which tell me something different) , reading numerous threads, and talking offline with some experienced members.... don't get me wrong, this process has been great --- but at this point I would like to be discussing these things while I have 320 hp at the wheels. I have already brought my care in 3 times to install modifications as I learned about them --- After finally reading Ken's thread -- it looks maybe I should go in again.... Them I will start thr process all over again when I get into the cosmetic stuff ----

No complaints, just the way it is and I thought I would throw out an idea.... I did overpay a local shop to direct, purchase and install the clear bra, softronic plenum flash, headers and catback. I would have been glad to provide this site with the same fee.

Nitro8472 · #7 08-13-2008, 06:27 AM

Well the members here (at least IMHO) are providing most of these "services" for each other for free. There are even members who meet just to show others their mods prior to them purchasing. This is why (again IMHO) like this place a lot, the "friendly" spirit here is like few others!!

________________________

"Sir! We're surrounded!" - "Excellent! We can shoot in any direction!"

A good car will get you from point A to point B. A great car... will just get you into trouble!

***Stephen_the_Red*** · #8 08-13-2008, 07:11 AM

Ken,

I'm one of the folks on the site who doesn't YET actually possess a Cayman. The deposit is in, the sales consultant at Park Place in Dallas is ready, and he and my special family are all waiting excitedly.

I joined this site to get information beforehand, which you and all the contributors and moderators have provided in spades! So, I put my money where my mouth is, and donated here - and will continue to do so. I've also taken advantage of special pricing from a number of our sponsors.

Question 1: Of the 10,000 or so members (I think that is the number), how many have actually donated??

Question 2: Would it make sense to only give club pricing to those who have actually donated to the site? Works for brick-and-mortar places like Sam's Club. Maybe it could work here.

**K-Man S** · #9 08-13-2008, 08:43 AM

I'll have to look up the number of people who have donated, but I'd be surprised if it was more than say 150, maybe 200? Certainly a small percentage of the 10,000+ registered members. The other thing people forget is that we are now getting OVER 41,000 different people visiting the site each month. That means only 1 in 4 ever registers and becomes a member of the site and of course fewer still ever donate, etc. The Sams Club idea is certainly one to consider. For example if you want to participate in a group buy you have to be a card carrying member or something like that. I know there are certainly people who visit the site but never register and jump in on a group buy and we never know it and often times the sponsor doesn't know that this person is just a visitor to the site as opposed to a registered member and thus sometimes we don't get credit for sending sales their way.

If we could better track those who buy from sponsors because of this site it would be better for the site and for the sponsors. If the advertising is working for the sponsors then they remain sponsors, if it isn't then they don't (although there are exceptions such as sponsors who are taking their business is a different direction or who simply don't have the funds to advertise everywhere they'd like to, etc. - although in that instance if we could show better metrics they might choose to stick with us and give up something else).

All good ideas folks, please keep them coming.

Where are my Angel investors???

TComBrat · #10 08-13-2008, 09:12 AM

I really think our community is one of the best communities out there on the web. Almost all of the posts, responses and criticisms are made in the most polite fashion. Although this site has tremendous amount if information, I think we all agree that this site is for entertainment purposes only. No one should have to confirm the validity of anyone’s post here!! Another words, as the reader, the risk is our own.

If members have to start paying for parts of the club I think then Admins seriously have to start worrying about the legality of the information. What if a member uses one of these additional services and not happy with the result? Does that mean the whole website is now responsible for this result? Can the member go after the admins for damages ect?? What if admins face a situation where they have to shut the site down??

I’m sure none of us would want this site to be faced with such a situation. Honestly if the times are really tough and the site has some funding problems I’m sure we would all chip in after a simple post describing the situation.

Ghost Rider · #11 08-13-2008, 12:01 PM

Originally Posted by K-Man S

I'll have to look up the number of people who have donated, but I'd be surprised if it was more than say 150, maybe 200?

I was curious about that and counted 100 by the letter "C" going alphabetically in the list of user names. So, I'd say it is safe to say you've got > 500 donors, and that isn't counting site sponsors or multiple donations from the same member.

On the other hand, I am surprised that the owner of Porsche site #1 and #2 isn't interested in buying #3, but I guess they gotta draw the line somewhere.

peter f cummiskey · #12 08-13-2008, 02:25 PM

If Porsche site #1 buys this site, you are going to have to pay...

**K-Man S** · #13 08-13-2008, 02:45 PM

Originally Posted by Ghost Rider

I was curious about that and counted 100 by the letter "C" going alphabetically in the list of user names. So, I'd say it is safe to say you've got > 500 donors, and that isn't counting site sponsors or multiple donations from the same member.

On the other hand, I am surprised that the owner of Porsche site #1 and #2 isn't interested in buying #3, but I guess they gotta draw the line somewhere.

I just ran a query and came up with 429 people in the Club Donors group which includes people who have donated cash, merchandise, time, etc. so yeah more than I originally estimated but less than your estimate.

With regard to Peter's last post, I don't want site #1 to get their hands on this site after I found out what the owner of site #1 has done to it and is currently doing to it.

peter f cummiskey · #14 08-13-2008, 03:48 PM

I agree with Ken, what a waste of money; never again --- nice pictures in the magazine though...

My original premise is that all companies and organizations have a life cycle... and that as the Cayman population grows (mainstream), as modifications become available and as Porsche changes its' product;.... that this club is eventually going to run out of steam without adding something special......... maybe I have offended volunteers who are willing to share info, but sometimes it is not enough... let's take some baby steps... into the future --- as for liabilites, this club has no more liabilities from taking in monies from members as it does from taking in monies form sponsors... As of now, this club is 100% supported by several volunteers and the sponsors......

All future comments or qualifications would have disclaimers and would be subjective; Buyer beware....

The strings that keep this club moving forward are thin at best in my opinion --- lose 4 or 5 people, especially Ken... where would you be ?....

**Blitzkrieg** · #15 08-13-2008, 05:15 PM

Originally Posted by K-Man S

The Sams Club idea is certainly one to consider. For example if you want to participate in a group buy you have to be a card carrying member or something like that. I know there are certainly people who visit the site but never register and jump in on a group buy and we never know it and often times the sponsor doesn't know that this person is just a visitor to the site as opposed to a registered member and thus sometimes we don't get credit for sending sales their way.

I think the "Sam's Club" addition to the site is a great idea, it helps assure the GB's are advantageous for paying members as opposed to someone who googled "Group Buy for ___". I for one would be happy to pay an annual fee (maybe like $60-$100), to be able to participate in group buys assuming they happen a bit more regularily from our sponsors. Some are ongoing, like Tess'/Alan's Quaife TBD, but others fill up fast and go away like the Capristo for example. I guess I'd just like to see more of them, or even better, permanent member only discounts, even if its only a 5%-10% off retail price, after buying a few items the membership would pay for itself.

This idea could be a bit out there, but the possibility of having a members only storefront page associated with the site sponsors could increase business traffic for those who choose to be sponsors, and at the same time potentially solve issues with vendors who do not sell to individual parties. Thinking of Escort for example, rather than having to track down a vendor and try and get a better deal on a zr3 laser shifting unit, how nice would it be to log into the site as a "card carrying member", go into the members only store section and be able to browse our sponsor's items at discounted prices. Obviously I realize theres a decent amount of overhead to get a web storefront online and operational, but just wanted to throw it out there

.

Also I definately agree that were the site to be made a "pay to access" it would drive away a lot of the great members that are here, I'm glad to know those kind of changes aren't being planned.

Ghost Rider · #16 08-13-2008, 05:27 PM

Originally Posted by K-Man S

I just ran a query and came up with 429 people in the Club Donors group which includes people who have donated cash, merchandise, time, etc. so yeah more than I originally estimated but less than your estimate.

I don't know how you did your query, but to be accurate the query must account for the fact that "club donor" doesn't appear under the user name of a lot of folks who are, in fact, club donors.

I'm not going to count them all up, but keep in mind that even if your numbers are accurate, my estimate was much closer than yours.

phayd2black · #17 08-13-2008, 08:40 PM

I guess the fee could contribute to the site's "exclusivity." Although I also agree with the others who have stated that the wealth of information on the internet should be free. If the individuals think they should be making money from posting their opinions/reviews, they might want to look into another venue for doing so. This site is great, and in the short time that I've been browsing it, I've learned quite a bit and had some laughs.

I think there should be more members, considering how many Caymans exist, but all in all the group here is awesome. I have visited other Porsche sites and they just aren't the same; plus those sites just aren't pleasing to the eye.

I think charging a fee to have a membership for group buys and having a membership number(could also be our log-in email) could prove to be successful if there are more occurrences in the future.

P.S. I haven't donated..yet, but I surely will. Money is tight for me(I'm dumb and have several credit cards with high balances) so it will have to be deferred.

**Santa Fe** · #18 08-13-2008, 08:44 PM

Speaking for just this moderator and Porsche owner since 1965 I try to contribute for the love of the make, the model and people and no more.

**K-Man S** · #19 08-13-2008, 09:27 PM

Originally Posted by Ghost Rider

I don't know how you did your query, but to be accurate the query must account for the fact that "club donor" doesn't appear under the user name of a lot of folks who are, in fact, club donors.

I'm not going to count them all up, but keep in mind that even if your numbers are accurate, my estimate was much closer than yours.

My query is accurate, it looked for anyone in the Club Donors group. People can be in the group but choose not to have it listed next to their name (only one group can be "primary") but those people still show up in the query. So yes the query looks to see if they are members of the group at all, not whether or not they list it. Make sense? Besides is the number that important to you?