At what point do you invest in a head and neck restraint?
Results 1 to 10 of 10

Thread: At what point do you invest in a head and neck restraint?

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Location
    California
    Posts
    34,155
    Likes (Given)
    12
    Likes (Received)
    37
    Images
    3
    Downloads
    11
    Uploads
    0

    At what point do you invest in a head and neck restraint?

    This is likely a stupid question but I'm going to ask anyways. It is clearly not required at the track events I have attended (not referring to club racing). I do see drivers with them but they all appear to be driving a dedicated track car (e.g. racing seat, 5 or 6 point harness, etc.) which makes sense to me since presumably these cars do not have air bags. But as I am driving my car with air bags does it still make sense?

  2. Remove Advertisements
     

  3. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Omaha
    Posts
    1,813
    Likes (Given)
    85
    Likes (Received)
    477
    Images
    1
    Downloads
    5
    Uploads
    0

    Re: At what point do you invest in a head and neck restraint?

    It's not necessarily the airbags that's the reason for using a HANS but the seat belts. PCA now requires you to use a HANS if you have a 5 or 6 pt belt because they (the belts) stop your momentum immediately. If you're not wearing a HANS, your head will not stop and we know how that ends. A passenger seat belt will not restrain you as well and will work in conjunction with the airbag.

    I don't know if there are HANSs designed to work with passenger belts. The racing versions work with the duel shoulder belts to hold them in place. It's a good question you ask. My initial thought was how high speed do you go on your particular track, but then I decided coming to a sudden stop at even 50mph could be catastrophic so there probably isn't some mph crossover where you should or shouldn't have one.
    Last edited by husker boxster; 04-19-2019 at 02:52 PM.

    PCA National HPDE Instructor
    2008 Boxster S Limited Edition #005
    2008 Cayman S Sport

  4. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Houston
    Posts
    1,048
    Likes (Given)
    24
    Likes (Received)
    208
    Downloads
    4
    Uploads
    0

    Re: At what point do you invest in a head and neck restraint?

    Just me but I don't get in a car on a track without a head-neck restraint. With 6pt harness I usually use a HANs. For cars with only 3pt belts I use a Simpson Hybrid. The Simpson is to my knowledge the only device tested with 3pt belts in the FMV crash test. Even with 3 pt belts it reduces neck tension in a frontal crash. Lots of sources to purchase these- Apex, OG, Stable energies and others. Worth considering for HPDE. And not at all a stupid question!
    Last edited by zedcat; 04-19-2019 at 11:22 AM.
    2008 911 Carrera S (sold)
    2009 Cayman 2.9 (sold)
    2012 Cayman R
    2004 Boxster S
    2015 GT3

  5. Remove Advertisements
    Planet-9.com
    Advertisements
     

  6. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    New jersey
    Posts
    42
    Likes (Given)
    1
    Likes (Received)
    6
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0
    On the day you find yourself on the slippery slope. With 3 point seat belt, buy a Simpson Hybrid or one of the other one or two rated brands.

    I have moved up into a six point harness and still use the hybrid.

  7. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    California
    Posts
    96
    Likes (Given)
    3
    Likes (Received)
    15
    Images
    5
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Re: At what point do you invest in a head and neck restraint?

    if you have a standard 3-point harness and get in an accident, then your body will move a little and then your head, and the airbags work in conjunction. if you have a 6-point harness, your torso is locked down and only your head moves. To make this worse, the weight of the helmet adds to the weight of your head, which increases the inertia, and your neck is not strong enough.
    If I have to wear a helmet, then I also want to wear the Hans.

  8. #6
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    143
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    16
    Downloads
    1
    Uploads
    0

    Re: At what point do you invest in a head and neck restraint?

    Airbags are the “pre HANS”. Anyone wearing a HANS with a 3-point and airbags is just throwing money away and is having to deal with an inconvenience with the device. Disclosure-this is my opinion and I am not in any way endorsing one side or the other.

  9. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Houston
    Posts
    1,048
    Likes (Given)
    24
    Likes (Received)
    208
    Downloads
    4
    Uploads
    0

    Re: At what point do you invest in a head and neck restraint?

    Quote Originally Posted by Porschebab1 View Post
    Airbags are the “pre HANS”. Anyone wearing a HANS with a 3-point and airbags is just throwing money away and is having to deal with an inconvenience with the device. Disclosure-this is my opinion and I am not in any way endorsing one side or the other.
    I'm not sure about this. I'm not an expert but a clear difference is the additional mass of the helmet. Human head is about 10lbs, and a typical full face helmet is 3.5, so a 30+% increase in mass. I don't know how much difference that may make relative to the design of the 3pt belt/airbag safety system. For me, it's enough of a concern that it's worth the cost and inconvenience of the hybrid system.
    2008 911 Carrera S (sold)
    2009 Cayman 2.9 (sold)
    2012 Cayman R
    2004 Boxster S
    2015 GT3

  10. #8
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    TX
    Posts
    280
    Likes (Given)
    41
    Likes (Received)
    57
    Downloads
    7
    Uploads
    0

    Re: At what point do you invest in a head and neck restraint?

    I don't have one yet, but I'm seriously considering a Simpson Hybrid S.

    Here is a link to the Simpson web site with some relevant test data: https://simpsonraceproducts.com/hybr...lt-compatible/. There is a webinar link on the Quick Links tab where they go into some of the design and testing details.
    2014 Boxster S - Racing Yellow, Sport Chrono, PASM, PTV, PDK, 3rd radiator, Cobb Stage 1 tune (Pagid RSL29's & Nitto NT-01's on the track)

  11. #9
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    583
    Likes (Given)
    65
    Likes (Received)
    136
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Re: At what point do you invest in a head and neck restraint?

    Ask 100 drivers, get 100 very different answers. I sat on the PCA Z8 safety committee for 7 years and we discussed this a lot.

    My thoughts (not recommendations):

    * An older car 96 or earlier with limited OEM driver safety or a stripped out track car, I prefer racing seats, harnesses, roll protection, HANS, and fire protection (suit and fire suppression). All of this works together as a well-proven driver safety system.

    * A modern reasonably stock car with full interior, 3 airbags per occupant, OEM 3pt belts, OEM hardened steel cabin structure and roll protection, offers a lot of driver protection and I don't feel the need for a fire suit or harness/HANS. Note: Others struggle with this but the data is pretty clear that injuries during a PCA DE day in one of these cars is vanishingly low.

    * Stuff I no longer find acceptable:
    -4pt harnesses without full ASM technology.
    -5/6 pt harnesses without a proper racing seat, HANS, roll protection, and fire protection as a complete safety system.

    Improperly installed harnesses, or a harness without racing seat, HANS, and roll protection, have resulted in multiple deaths at race tracks in the US over the last 5 years. A partial safety system is as good as no safety system so do it right or don't do it at all. JMHO
    Last edited by cajundaddy; 04-28-2019 at 12:44 PM.
    2009 Cayman 2.9L PDK with a few tweaks
    PCA-GPX Chief Driving Instructor
    PCA National DE Instructor

  12. #10
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    texas
    Posts
    722
    Downloads
    4
    Uploads
    0

    Re: At what point do you invest in a head and neck restraint?

    Not a stupid question at all. The mere fact that you are asking it, pretty much indicates you're ready to get one. As has been stated the Simpson Hybrid S is the only FIA certified HANS type device that is proven to reduce neck trauma in an accident. Keep in mind, many of us are pre-locking the tension in our seatbelt as tight as we can get them in order to stay firmly in the seat. This takes away some of your torso movement, but the neck keeps on going in an accident. For less than the cost of a set of tires you can protect your neck from a serious injury. Being a physician for 30 years, I have treated many thousands of people for their injuries sustained an automobile accidents. By far and away the number one injury in a street car accident is to the neck, not the head or the back. We are required to wear helmets to protect our heads but our necks are left vulnerable. I have been using the Hybrid S for the last few years now, and even arranged to have Simpson come to our last DE to talk about their products and make them available to everyone all weekend long. As an MD I would recommend that you look into additional safety equipment such as the Hybrid S if you are going to be visiting the track with any kind of frequency.

  13. Remove Advertisements
     

Similar Threads

  1. Self Restraint
    By JCCc in forum 981 Cayman and Boxster Configurations and Ordering
    Replies: 21
    Last Post: 11-18-2013, 09:06 AM
  2. Would you invest in building a new F1 racetrack?
    By qhb in forum Automotive Off Topic
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 04-19-2013, 06:26 PM
  3. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 07-23-2010, 07:42 AM
  4. R3 and head restraint question
    By ndporsche in forum 987 Cayman and Boxster Competition
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 07-11-2007, 01:36 PM

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •