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Thread: Suspension Upgrade for DEs

  1. #21
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    Re: Suspension Upgrade for DEs

    Quote Originally Posted by Apex1 View Post
    Reducing understeer in the mid corner with throttle on required the front bar to be adjusted one hole softer.
    Increasing rebound damping in front and increasing compression damping in the rear will also reduce that exit on power under steer.

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    Re: Suspension Upgrade for DEs

    While there are infinite compromises to be made, a high quality JRZ kit will get you 80% of the way there. The rest is fine tuning. Adjustable arms only serve to allow adjustments when aligning. Not sure? Just go zero toe and slightly more rear camber. Monoballs simply hold a static alignment under dynamic conditions.

    It seems like a lot but it really isn't super complicated. The 981 is a great platform. The only way you can f it up is with cheap parts or by cutting corners.


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    2015 981 Boxster 2.7L PDK, HRE FF01 20" Pilot Sport 4S, JRZ RS1 touring 330/300 springs, Cobb
    2010 Audi S4 6MT, Brembo GT-R 380mm, BBS CX-R Cup2, Recaro Spa, JRZ RS1 450/800 springs, Revo

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    Re: Suspension Upgrade for DEs

    Ohlins suggest that with their single adjustment knob affects the rebound, and also, the compression damping to a smaller degree. This info is from the owners manual, so if you adjust the front for more compression, you will also get even more rebound. Same happens in the rear. So, I am just fine tuning the front with the adjustment knob. Its easy to do, along with tire pressures, I just need to write down after each run what I did for the record. Better tires will happen in the future, so for now, I am just learning how to adjust my driving and my car to the track conditions.

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    Re: Suspension Upgrade for DEs

    Quote Originally Posted by Apex1 View Post
    Ohlins suggest that with their single adjustment knob affects the rebound, and also, the compression damping to a smaller degree. This info is from the owners manual, so if you adjust the front for more compression, you will also get even more rebound. .....
    Really? Sounds like it is a simple low speed circuit adjusting needle. I thought from all the hoopla and fanfare about Ohlins that they would have separate rebound and compression adjustments.
    So they are basically no better/ different than PSS9's as far as adjustability and tuning. I wonder what that extra $600 really gives you then.

    I offered to swap my like new Bilsteins for another members Ohlins set for a comparison since he was complaining about the harsh ride, too stiff spring rate, not being able to adjust the shock to his liking, etc. I wanted to be able to do a side by side comparison. He could do the same, then we could have posted our thoughts on each and how they compared.

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    Suspension Upgrade for DEs

    Bilstein is not in the same category as Ohlins.

    Entry level: Bilstein, KW, Sachs (OEM), Koni

    High end: Moton, Ohlins, JRZ

    Totally different level of body control. The high end units have a perfect digressive bend on a shock dyno.


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    Last edited by westwest888; 08-16-2017 at 09:09 PM.

    2015 981 Boxster 2.7L PDK, HRE FF01 20" Pilot Sport 4S, JRZ RS1 touring 330/300 springs, Cobb
    2010 Audi S4 6MT, Brembo GT-R 380mm, BBS CX-R Cup2, Recaro Spa, JRZ RS1 450/800 springs, Revo

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    Re: Suspension Upgrade for DEs

    Quote Originally Posted by westwest888 View Post
    Bilstein is not in the same category as Ohlins.

    Entry level: Bilstein, KW, Sachs (OEM), Koni

    High end: Moton, Ohlins, JRZ

    Totally different level of body control. The high end units have a perfect digressive bend on a shock dyno.
    Do you have the graphs to show that Ohlins is truly digressive?
    Also, if Ohlins only has a single adjustment screw, then it is extremely limited on the possible adjustments; that does not quaify as high end. High end should have as a minimum separate low speed compression and rebound adjustments, ideally they should also have high speed compression adjustability as well to qualify as truly high end. Many mid range dampers (ie. Penske remote reservoir 68xx series) have separate low speed compression and rebound adjusters, are easily modified, and have many types of pistons available for custom set ups. Ohlins doesn't offer any of that, so I can't see why Ohlins would be considered high end.

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    Suspension Upgrade for DEs

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian C in Az View Post
    Do you have the graphs to show that Ohlins is truly digressive?
    Also, if Ohlins only has a single adjustment screw, then it is extremely limited on the possible adjustments; that does not quaify as high end. High end should have as a minimum separate low speed compression and rebound adjustments, ideally they should also have high speed compression adjustability as well to qualify as truly high end. Many mid range dampers (ie. Penske remote reservoir 68xx series) have separate low speed compression and rebound adjusters, are easily modified, and have many types of pistons available for custom set ups. Ohlins doesn't offer any of that, so I can't see why Ohlins would be considered high end.
    I do have the graphs. Put them on a shock dyno in Sonoma. For the Audi:



    When I say "low end", I mean $1500 coilover kits that every vendor sells. When I say "high end", I mean $4000-$8000 kits. I'm advocating for the shallow end of this range, because the expensive stuff is overkill for HPDE.

    I'm sure if you or I were Patrick Long, a 4 way setup would be great. I'm not optimizing for a 6 minute time at the Ring. I'm optimizing for reliability and weekend duty. There are lots of 4 way kits that give out in 8000 street miles (ahem, Ohlins). The shock body starts leaking and the performance degrades to worse than stock.

    All I want to do is set my damper to full soft on the street, and 14/24 hard for some laps (and 12/24 front, because that is another axis you can mess with). I personally can't figure out in 4 weekends on track per year when I would need more rebound to the degree that I need another dimension on the shock. And I am a huge nerd about this stuff, I spend countless idle hours thinking about it. Then I spend thousands of dollars trying it on the Audi and on the Porsche. Maybe you are a lot smarter and more dedicated than me. Or maybe you ain't gonna need it!


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    Last edited by westwest888; 08-21-2017 at 09:47 PM.

    2015 981 Boxster 2.7L PDK, HRE FF01 20" Pilot Sport 4S, JRZ RS1 touring 330/300 springs, Cobb
    2010 Audi S4 6MT, Brembo GT-R 380mm, BBS CX-R Cup2, Recaro Spa, JRZ RS1 450/800 springs, Revo

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    Re: Suspension Upgrade for DEs

    That's for an Audi.
    That is not the same as for a Porsche.
    Audi is front engine rear wheel drive, Porsche is mid engined. They are totally different designs with totally different damping requirements. The dampers better have a totally different dyno graph.

    This smacks of the same garbage when someone posts that their BMW mechanic says to adjust their Porsche suspension .......

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    Re: Suspension Upgrade for DEs

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian C in Az View Post
    That's for an Audi.
    That is not the same as for a Porsche.
    Audi is front engine rear wheel drive, Porsche is mid engined. They are totally different designs with totally different damping requirements. The dampers better have a totally different dyno graph.

    This smacks of the same garbage when someone posts that their BMW mechanic says to adjust their Porsche suspension .......
    Lol ok. Sorry I didn't get the other JRZ RS1 damper put on the shock dyno for you. Want to bet it's also disgressive and has the same bend at a slightly different part of the X axis?

    Give me a break man. I've set up a BMW for the track, an Audi, and now a mid engine Porsche. Mod, test on road course, adjust, repeat. It's not rocket science.

    All I'm saying is street dampers are crap, JRZ RS1/RS2 is a nice compromise, and no one here needs 4 way race dampers or has enough free time to set them up.


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    2015 981 Boxster 2.7L PDK, HRE FF01 20" Pilot Sport 4S, JRZ RS1 touring 330/300 springs, Cobb
    2010 Audi S4 6MT, Brembo GT-R 380mm, BBS CX-R Cup2, Recaro Spa, JRZ RS1 450/800 springs, Revo

  12. #30
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    Re: Suspension Upgrade for DEs

    Quote Originally Posted by westwest888 View Post
    Lol ok. Sorry I didn't get the other JRZ RS1 damper put on the shock dyno for you. Want to bet it's also disgressive and has the same bend at a slightly different part of the X axis?
    OK, I'll not bust your chops too hard on that one.
    Quote Originally Posted by westwest888 View Post

    Give me a break man. I've set up a BMW for the track, an Audi, and now a mid engine Porsche. Mod, test on road course, adjust, repeat. It's not rocket science.
    True, so True
    Quote Originally Posted by westwest888 View Post
    All I'm saying is street dampers are crap, JRZ RS1/RS2 is a nice compromise, and no one here needs 4 way race dampers or has enough free time to set them up.
    I agree to the first half of that sentence, I disagree on the last part. 4 way are not really that hard to set up IF you take the time to understand what a damper does and what is the difference between high speed and low speed circuitry. As you know, most assume that refers to the speed of the car.....

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    Re: Suspension Upgrade for DEs

    ChipB-
    What outcome happened if any? Did you change a few items in your suspension for this season? A few P9 members suggested LCA's to improve your camber. I would highly recommend Tarett Cup LCA's due to three important items. 1. The monoballs on the inside and outside of the arm substantially improve the accuracy of turnin in front and help with trail braking stability. 2. The solid thrust puck adds stability to the arms moving forward or backwards preventing the toe from increasing or decreasing. 3. The adjustable shims for adding camber (up to 20mm additional track width which equates to -2.0 camber) are solid with two bolts holding the inner monoball attachment to the mid arm with the shim squeezed in between. Elephants single large bolt does not need shims, but could flex more as the single bolt is not as secure as the GT3 arm style in my opinion.

    I have these Tarett Cup LCA's and for anyone changing from OEM to modified camber LCA's, I would highly recommend these arms due to the combination of factors above. They work very well with higher spring rate coilovers, like JRZ, MCS, Ohlins, etc. I reduced my compression/rebound settings a lot after these were installed for around town drivability. On the track, the stiffer compression/rebound rate of the Ohlin's were even more effective in preventing dive on braking, body roll, and bump reduction. These LCA's also allowed 6 minutes of toe out in the front as they prevent additional toe to occur when braking, or body roll motion due to OEM rubber bushings. In the back, the solid thrust puck prevents the 2 1/2 in forward/aft motion of the rear wheels during acceleration and braking which causes again the toe to be out of adjustment.
    Suspension Upgrade for DEs-bcup-jpgSuspension Upgrade for DEs-996-997-adjustable-control-arm-caster-puck-large-jpg

    Lastly, a rear toe link with bumpsteer adjustability, like the Elephant toe link is essential to get and keep the correct toe during the suspension arc with your ride height and camber -2.5 r you are looking for.

    djm68 started a thread on the 987 modification section, "Is this what the slippery slope looks like", Post #26 answered your question, by shaving 6 seconds off his best time last year at Sears Point by using this upgrade. His car is a Cayman R. The coilover setup is JRZ's with 700 lb/in r springrate (usage 90% track vs 10% back country driving), while mine are Ohlins R&T with 458 lb/in r spring rate (usage 80% daily vs 20% track/autocross).
    Last edited by Apex1; 06-26-2018 at 10:52 AM.

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