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Constant problems since TPC turbo install

37K views 106 replies 26 participants last post by  mthornt2 
#1 ·
Hey guys, I was just wondering if anyone else has had lots of problems with their cayman since they had the TPC turbo installed? My turbo has blown seals and bearings 3 times now, and then the last few days I've had a lot of smoke coming out of exhaust. I've had it in and out of shop and they keep saying they can't find nothing wrong, but the mile long tail of smoke tells me otherwise! Also at start up the smoke is so bad I can't even see out the rear window! Any suggestions or similar problems to what im experiencing would be very helpful! I've also noticed that the car isn't running as smoothly these last couple of wks! Idle is a bit jumping and when I put the foot down it hesitates around 5k rpm then goes again at 6k. Really love my car but my wife is getting a little frustrated at the constant repair bills! Would love to get it fixed once and for all! Cheers in advance Guys!
 
#3 ·
It reads like there are at least two problems.

The first is the blown seals/bearings. This sounds like an oil supply/oil return problem. Turbos require a very good supply of cool, filtered and high pressure oil. The return line needs to be able to carry hot and possibly aerated oil back to either the engine if engine oil is used or to the separate turbo oiling system.

Oil feed and oil return line routing is critical. Ensuring the lines do not get bent, kinked or pinched during installation (or anytime the engine is touched) is paramount.

In short some problems are of an installation nature.

Who did the install?

Has he looked the setup over?

Have you gotten a copy of the installation instructions/video and done something of a review to see if you can spot any installation issues?

Next the AOS may be going bad or have gone bad. But with the issue of the turbo acting up this could be hard to diagnose directly.

So the job of sorting the car out might have to be done by staring at the car staring at the turbo installation looking for any problems, fixing those, then tentatively running the engine to as best as you can determine that things are working better.

Or you can just throw a new AOS in the car. I do not like to throw parts at symptoms but sometimes one has to take a shot.

Also, it might be the installation review might turn up an intake leak or something amiss with the boost control, any number of things, and addressing this will make the AOS-like symptoms go away.
 
#5 · (Edited)
Hey thanks for the reply I will have a look at the above mentioned but as I Said the car had been good for 6months so surely the oil return lines are ok otherwise wouldn't this problem of arose before? And hey what is the AOS? Also u know where I can get an installation cd?
 
#4 ·
i've experienced the smoke problem after my tpc kit was installed (although it is likely not as bad as your's sounds to be). i had the turbo replaced because the turbine appeared to be off axis and was not producing boost. with the replacement turbo, the smoke issue has improved (but has not been resolved). as the smoke issue appears to be intermittent, my technician has not been able to diagnosis the problem as it doesn't occur when i take the car to him (it usually smokes while in stop and go traffic).
 
#6 ·
Haha same seems to be happening to me! I also just took the oil cap off for a look and there was a yellowy goo at the top of the oil tube! Could this mean water is getting into the oil somehow? My car also seems to stop blowing smoke when I take it to my tech! It's like it says FU buddy haha! Hope to get it resolved soon tho! Having my turbo rebuilt once again! :(
 
#8 ·
Well, well, well... I wasn't alone after all suffering since day one from:
1) fluctuating rpm when lightly feathering the gas paddle at idle
2) occasional smoke at cold startup (only at startup) especially after not driving the car for few days.
3) high oil consumption

Anyway, this week my dealer suggested replacing the AOS (I had TPC TrakPak) and the MAF.

I drove 200 km since replacing the above and reported symptoms above disappeared. But I was waiting to hit 1000 km before reporting this at P9. Nevertheless I hope this helps you guys... Oh one more thing:

The car feels like it had gained so many new ponies, since I'm sure it got dyno'ed at TPC with the above symptoms. Seriously even the exhaust note is crispier and the boost peaks higher and faster.

Best of luck
 
#10 ·
Hey Hassan, this sounds very similar to what I'm experiencing, almost identical to be honest. Idle is sometimes very unstable, I changed the AOS, about 6 months before I installed the kit and the MAF was changed during installation as it was recommended by TPC! I thought all these should be good! I've only done 7k miles on the last year or so since install, since car has been in and out of the shop so much! It's really been such a nightmare! Have u notice a slight pause in the acceleration around 5-6k rpm, then after 6k it goes again? It's just not smooth like it should be I don't feel! Also my dyno chart is a lot more up and down than te one TPC show on their website, they said this was due to heat soaking the intercooler but all the pipes and hoses are wrapped in heat sheets I think they're called to help stop this! The list goes on! Thanks for your help guys! :) sorry we are all experiencing the same problems!
 
#9 ·
Ok it's going back to the shop next week so ill get them to check on that. And yea it all started happening again after I got an oil change! Something that should be so simple really! I'm going to take a look under car today to see if this is infact what has happened. Maybe durin the oil change a line got a kink in it. So frustrating.
 
#25 ·
Keep the posts coming please, TV here in the states is dreadful, so all I have now for entertainment is Big Bang Theory and the further adventures Hassan Abdeen Cayman Trainer. Lol.....
 
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#27 ·
Blair,

Idle surging is typically cause by small air leak(s) which small amounts of air bypasses the MAF(Mass Air Flow) sensor resulting in un-metered air that the ECU program is trying to compensate for. It could show up as a MAF fault code. It sounds to me like there was a small air leak in the system which eventually turned into a big leak(i.e. a primary hose coming off) that is preventing the engine from starting. When diagnosing a car the technician must look at the big picture(the cause) and not just the resulted fault code(s).

Did you replace the factory throttle valve after getting the throttle valve fault code or did you continue to drive it? Are there any faults codes besides the throttle valve?

In regard to the turbo, I don't know what your installer told you but your turbo failed because the factory catalytic converter came apart and sent a chunk about the size of a chicken nugget down into the turbo. We rebuilt your turbo under warranty even though it wasn't a defect of the kit.

Back to your drivability and engine not starting issue, it could be a failed throttle valve(throttle body) or its wiring, could be a fuel pump or relay. The liquid-to-air intercooler could be dry or electric pump not working which will cause rough running as the ECU program is making huge corrections, but this won't cause the engine to not start. Diagnosing our turbo kit is no different than diagnosing a factory turbo car's turbo system since the diagnostic function of the ECU remains the same. We are always happy to assist with diagnosis but doing so remotely we have to rely on or assume that every air hose connection is tight and with no cracks(even the factory hoses), no kinks or pinches on oil lines, no installation errors, no issues and with any of the factory parts.

We are not on the forums all the time so for quickest response please email or call us directly.
tchan@tpcracing.net
410-799-7223

Tom
 
#29 ·
took my car into my technician today to change the oil and oil filter and to finally replace the original battery (i picked up the car from the dealer in may 2007). i also asked him to take a look at the smoking issue again, and again he indicated that he was not able to replicate the problem...oh well, i guess i can live with it as the turbo system appears to be otherwise functioning properly.
 
#32 ·
outch - no not really where you're supposed to be.

BTW that DIP on the high RPMs was an issue of my car, too

Its seems to be within the ECU tune of TPC to reproduce it

and I know of at least one more person who is dealing with this dip, too

he is on this forum, too so he could chime in.


back to your power --- you are running seriously way too little power

do you have a durametric at hand? whats your air mass sensosr's

kg/hr value at its peak?
 
#34 ·
I have that info already Alex, just can't remember what I done with it! I have it in an email somewhere as I sent it to TPC at the time!

What did ur car dyno at? Care to share that info? What was the readings u got from your mass air sensor?
 
#33 ·
Blair,

Didn't your car dyno around 355 whp at SeriousHP during the summer? I remember taking my car down there and they overlayed both graphs and they were almost identical.

Thanks,
Jon
 
#41 · (Edited)
From looking at run #1, I have no doubt that you felt the dip. I believe the data you sent before did point to the intercooler; deficiency of intercooler circuit flow is interpreted by rich fuel mixture during high load range on data.

The rear plenum flap door(aka resonance chamber) is located between the two intake manifolds behind the throttle body plenum(front plenum). It is a flap door that divides the total volume to roughly 50% when closed. This is a factory function on this car. For example, if the flap door is not opening at the rate that it should(i.e. sticking) the run will not be as smooth. This is a lot less apparent on non-boosted applications.

If the factory AOS is bad or has been leaking the entire time, then replacing it will make a big difference. Having a blown AOS is like driving around with the oil filler cap off. Can you imagine the amount of un-metered air that go from the crankcase into the intake manifold and all the correction the ECU is trying to make while throwing out MAF error codes because the ECU thinks the MAF is miscalibrating. I wish it was simpler but these are complicated systems, my friend. We are not just diagnosing our turbo kit, we diagnosing the entire car without being at there. I am sorry that the turbo kit has not met your expectation so far. We are doing what we can to help you diagnose remotely. I'd love to see your car make the big power!
 
#43 ·
yes its fair to state I have 350 whp and yes i run lower boost than you

0,3 bar = 4,35 psi so with higher boost you should have more power than I do


I also agree with what TPC states that the dip is all about the flap control

Also I very much welcome their involvement here to be posting along with us!
 
#44 ·
It is my understanding that compression ratio, boost, ignition timing and exhaust temp are closely related.
To avoid knock one has to retard the iginition timing . Retarding ignition timing will give you a higher exhaust gas temperature. This will then result in melted cats, and later on melted whatsoever, probably exhaust valves.
To keep ignition timing earlier and not have knock one must or reduce the compression ratio or reduce boost, whatever you like.
What to do? Run race gas, standard ignition timing (not retarded) and accept occasional knock? => Better power , but the knock will kill your pistons quickly. Chips get off the pistons (kills turbo) or the ring land area is damaged by the knocking (compression gone).
It is your choice
Andreas
 
#45 ·
These cars have active knock control built into the ECU from the factory to protect the engine. As they are delivered from the dealer showroom, we have seen the ECU correct ignition timing from the base map by 9% or more depending on the fuel octane the user puts and other variables. Another words, these engines are always riding on the edge of the knock control once the ECU goes into closed loop. Ignition correction is part of adaptation. Anyone with scan equipment can verify this on a stock car and even experiment by using octane.The base maps which we created on our dyno for our turbo kits actually have less % of correction than the stock map for stock engine. We target around 3 to 6% on our development cars. Keep in mind that every car is slightly different due to engine build tolerances, condition of external engine parts and sensors, aftermarket mods, and etc. These are variables. When we hit 3% or less by custom tuning, the lines are so smooth you'd think we drew the lines with a pen. Our maps are created on new or newer cars so on older cars as mechanical parts wear and electrical sensors deviate from original calibration the correction % becomes greater that is why we see slightly different results. Custom tuning each car has its advantages especially on cars with other mods, but for the majority our kit maps are pretty spot on as long as the installation is done properly and that everything on the car is sound. One example of a variable that comes to my mind was a few years ago we were troubleshooting a Gen-1 Cayman S turbo at another shop that was down 50+hp. The data log showed massive ignition correction which usually means fuel octane issue. Empty the gas tank to put race fuel in it and made no difference. After a few days of back and forth the mechanic then told us he had installed a semi-solid transmission mount. The ECU interpreted the vibration from the semi-solid mount as massive knock. So he swapped the rubber mount back and the ignition correct was back to normal and got the power. Sounds crazy doesn't it? But it happened. So when the correction is 15% or greater there is something going on with the installation or malfunctioning part(s) or fuel octane or other mods that is causing the huge correction. And consequently power and smoothness are affected. One last thing on ignition correct, when the battery is disconnected the ECU resets to high ignition timing before adaptation. Usually the highest potential power which an engine is capable of producing is shown in the first 5 to 7 runs before adaptation/correction.

Using a non-factory stand-alone type ECU such as a Motec will avert adaptation and limiting tables built into the factory ECU's but it is not feasible at all.

Hope this will give you guys an insight on timing, knock control, tuning and dyno.

Tom
 
#50 ·
Alex,

I know you and your mechanic have gone over this before but I'll throw it out there anyway, if the liquid-to-air intercooler is not working properly(i.e. air pockets in the system or low flow volume or etc.) the elevated IAT(Intake Air Temp) will have an impact on ignition timing correction. "If " this was the case, a savvy ECU tuner could change base map to sort of "dance around" a mechanical issue using software. Basically in this "If" scenario the car in question has been custom tuned for an installation error. I am not implying this is the case, I am just thinking of all possibilities.

Again, I sincerely hope that car will make you proud.

Tom
 
#51 ·
true tom, we noticed an air pocket but yet after discovering it and getting rid of it the deviation for correction still at that high value

the intake air temp even at highest load and really pushing the car to its limit remained at about 36 degrees celcsius, which impressed the ECU tuner
as he had expected the air intake ooling to be more problematic in the car
granted its winter here and outside temp was about 0 degrees celsius but even after pushing the car repeatidly the intake air temp would be very stable, which is very good thing!


the ECU tuning was done AFTER the fact f making sure there is no cooling issue, as in air pocket etc - i am at a 350 whp now (dynoed in the german way ;) ) so that is making me happy though I have NOT yet driven the car as i need to pick it up next week or whenever the snow lays off a bit as i intend to test it thoroughly on my way back (its 300 kilometers away)

thanks for your good wishes and believe me i intend nothing but to have the care make me proud and happy, you know yourself how much details i've put in it from interior, to exterior, to brakes etc - so the tpc mod is only a part of the whole :)

i am very very glad you are chiming in here regularly now!
 
#52 ·
Greetings to all and congratulations for the forum

For Hassaan,
Your oil consumption is not 'normal, you are at risk breakage.
Urgent vos cup and cup oil increased from 1.5 liters
What kind of oil you use and which 'the atmospheric temperature of use of the car?
Have you checked if the lubrication system and 'under pressure by moving cars obd socket connection or to instruments?

For Alex,
the concern relates to the implementation and the setting of the high-pressure pump in the first analysis, what kind of fuel do you use?
Your car stock in most cases has a power of approximately 300-305 hp
 
#53 ·
For Hassaan,
Your oil consumption is not 'normal, you are at risk breakage.
Urgent vos cup and cup oil increased from 1.5 liters
What kind of oil you use and which 'the atmospheric temperature of use of the car?
Have you checked if the lubrication system and 'under pressure by moving cars obd socket connection or to instruments?
Any suggestions? Nobody has any clue why it consumes 1/2 liter per 500km under hard acceleration. My guess its the way the engine is built or the turbo oil reducer... but I could be wrong.

It's been like this for 15000 km and I change the oil & filter every 2000 km... Clean with no metal or such.
 
#61 ·
With that oil consumption is 'at risk breaking' cause as well as having less oil, the pressure of the same remains low not allowing for sufficient lubrication.
The solutions of this car are mounted in cayman cup are sump exetension kit oversized for 1.5 liter increase and vos cup with external drain.
In addition, depending on the atmospheric temperature at which the engine works is recommended Mobil1 5W50 or 10w60 castrol rs.
In the latter case must be checked that the VarioCam working properly.
 
#62 ·
You assume the oil is going past the rings or valve guides/stem and seals and are recommending at least in one case an unapproved oil: 10w-60; based on this assumption.

'course I will admit that in this case the owner has deviated quite a bit from the factory setup what with the turbo so what oil he wants to run is up to him and the company that made the turbo kit.

Switching to 5w-50 probably wouldn't hurt anything -- I run this oil in the summer months in my 03 996 Turbo -- but my WAG is the oil consumption will not change any significant amount, unless the current oil fill is the wrong oil, or has a lot of miles on it and has accumulated a fair bit of water and unburned gas. These will lower the oil's viscosity and increase its tendency to foam and these can contribute to an increase in oil consumption.

If this is the case the solution is not to run a thicker oil but to change the oil more often, before the contamination builds to a level that affects oil consumption.
 
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