Planet-9 Porsche Forum banner
  • Hello Everyone! Let us know what you would spend a $50 Amazon gift card on, HERE For a chance to win a $50 Amazon Gift Card!
1 - 13 of 13 Posts

·
Administrator
Joined
·
1,509 Posts
thanks for the info. yes this will be the first time doing plugs on this porsche.
Buy a complete set of coil packs to install at the same time. There is no additional labor required and if they're the originals at 136k miles - they're done. Put new ones in (use OE, Bosch or Beru) and you know then what the condition of them is.
 
  • Like
Reactions: CarGuyNeil

·
Administrator
Joined
·
1,509 Posts
What tool are you reading the faults with? Some are better than others.. and some allow monitoring things like timing and mixture (which is where I suspect your problem is..) The lean mixture reports at idle might mean the fuel pressure at the injectors isn't correct. There is also the MAF - and a good tool should let you see what the readings from the MAF are doing (plus the actual O2 sensor outputs..)
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
1,509 Posts
Oh my. And oh my.

The first "Oh my" is your first video with the awful idle. The engine is obviously missing, what's a mystery is why the ECU isn't turning off the injectors for the cylinders that are miss firing. It's supposed to in order to avoid flooding. The strong fuel smell is a clue there.

Oh my #2 - that's about as bad-looking an engine compartment as I've ever seen. The air filter is no longer filtering air. The rips in it indicate it's had a rough life, and I bet the pleats are full of whatever the sandlike dust that's covering everything in the engine compartment is. You put 14,000 miles after purchasing it - and I'm guessing with no service besides oil services? At 120k miles a major service was due, and given the condition of the engine compartment, I can promise that was never done. There may also be a leak in a hose in your 4th picture in your gallery, where the hose is up against a sharp edge of what I assume is the AOS.

You need a new air filter. You should clean the engine compartment BEFORE installing the new air filter. Your MAF undoubtedly is dirty (CRC makes a specific electrical cleaner for the MAF - big box auto parts stores carry it). The AOS may have failed (it certainly wouldn't be a surprise given how the rest of the engine looks, it has obviously been ignored for a long long time..) You really should do the entire 120k mile service, but you can skip things like the serpentine belt until you have the engine running correctly again, the belt isn't causing this.

I question using Torque to read the codes. Does it have a separate Porsche module (I own it, but can't recall one), if not - Torque is only reading the OBD-II codes. In that case, there may be lots more codes stored away in the ECU that Torque simply can't read. There are also faults that the Torque probably can't reset. Since it's a 987, the tool I'd recommend is the Foxwell NT530 with Porsche module. It offers good coverage of the 987 series cars.

If it wasn't for the strong smell of fuel I'd be questioning the fuel pressure. The strong smell of fuel also brings up the possibility that an injector has failed and is leaking fuel into a cylinder.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
1,509 Posts
latest code read (these didnt show up until i disconnected the MAF and started it)

Vehicle VIN: WP0AB29877U781573
Vehicle Manufacturer: Unknown
Vehicle Calibration ID: Not present
If this was a Porsche-specific tool, to me, this would point to a cooked ECU. Since it's a Cayman not a Boxster I wouldn't expect to hear of water flooding of the ECU unless at some time the vehicle had been involved in a flood that never got to CarFax (assuming you have a Carfax on the car.)

You haven't mentioned (that I remember) where you're located - if you did perhaps some member nearby might have a Porsche diagnostics tool and could come to do a house visit on your Cayenne.

Did you happen to keep the old plugs? And number them as you removed them? Perhaps take some closeup photos for us.

BTW - please don't use off-site albums to post photos. If your off-site album goes away for any reason your photos here will disappear making the thread useless for other people in the future who might read it (and need to learn from it.) Please DO upload your photos here. Resize them before posting so they are a maximum width of 1024, which makes it easier on people without gigabit connections.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
1,509 Posts
Thanks for bringing the photos on-line so to speak.

Your plugs are telling me a story of sorts. It looks like two of them have been working harder or longer than the others. From the photos, it appears the last 2 in the photo (most to the right) have significantly shorter metal center electrodes. On these 4 prong plugs - that's the part that erodes away as the plug is fired. I wonder if someone was lazy changing plugs last time and didn't do the two harder-to-reach ones? It would be better seeing them in person, but we're 3,000 miles apart so that's not happening, but the fuel mixture and temperature range on them appear OK. It looks like there are light tan deposits very thin deposits on the center ceramic of the plug. That's what is considered desirable. I can't see a big difference in the color of any one of the plugs - which would indicate a cylinder misfiring or a mixture imbalance.

If it were me - at this point I'd replace the MAF. If you don't want to pay the Porsche tax on the part - you can do a search on Bosch F 00C 262 063, or F 00C 2G2 063 - I think that might be productive. The older MAF's had an exposed sensor that could be fairly easily cleaned with the spray. The newer ones they've enclosed the sensor - and it's not as easy to clean, or on some not even possible.

Hopefully the mechanic has a Porsche diagnostics tool and can give further insight into what's really going on with your engine. Please keep us up to date.. that's what makes the forum a valuable source for learning from the misery of others.. :cautious:
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
1,509 Posts
Product Motor vehicle Automotive design Automotive tire Automotive exterior



The part in the yellow box ("B" in your photo) above is the balance pipe to help balance out the two intake manifolds. It may also do some tuning of the manifolds by opening/closing a vacuum controlled valve. The blue/green box is where the vacuum actuator lives, on the side of the balance pipe. There is likely a flap type valve inside the balance pipe - and it sounds as if that and/or the vacuum actuator is broken.

it sounds as if he's removing the entire intake manifold since he lists 6 intake manifold gaskets (1 for each cylinder), this might be needed if he suspects any broken bits have gotten into the intake manifold itself. Then it sounds as if he's just going to replace the vacuum actuator.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
1,509 Posts
It seems like the AOS should be easy to change at that point since it is also in the same general area. So he shouldn't be charging regular labor rate for the full job when most, if not almost all of it, will be right there.

Sent from my SM-S908U using Tapatalk
That was my initial reaction too - I thought his labor rates seemed high until I looked up the book-rate from AllDataDIY. They give 3.7 hours of labor for EACH side of the intake manifold - so 2x3.7=more than 7 hours, meaning it will probably take him 5 or so. Then you have the hour of prep and hour of reassembly of all the crap you have to remove to get to the engine. Since there isn't a quoted charge for that work, I assume he folded that time into the estimate for the manifold R&R. Also this is the .1 AOS which is more of a PITA to replace from everything I've seen. We're spoiled with the 987.2 engines - easier to work on besides not needing as much work.

Does it seem high? It's not a bargain, but I can see how it would be justifiable.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
1,509 Posts
So are there two of those actuators on the balance pipe? And are two of those electric changeover devices? Does anyone have a 987 service manual that can see what's involved with manifold removal etc...

If that doesn't work - contact me via PM.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
1,509 Posts
I'm thinking about doing the work so I can deep clean along the way. Going to the shop tomorrow to have them show me in person. But do you guys agree that this could be causing my issues. I haven't seen to much searching for something similar.
Certainly if the vacuum actuator has gone pear-shaped, and is causing a vacuum leak, there is a decent chance it's causing your issues.. and if it's broken the car isn't running right anyway, so it needs to be fixed.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
1,509 Posts
What do you guys think. was he over doing it by wanting to remove the entire air intake manifold?
Any good mechanic is going to be cautious and try to avoid having a come-back. In this case - that logically would mean removing the entire intake just in case something broke internally and is floating around in the intake waiting to start trouble down the road.

My WAG - if you take out the intake/balance tubes - you'll be able to see into the intakes and see if there is any reason to go further with the removal. The endoscopes for a cell phone are marvelously cheap and marvelously good (mine is much clearer than my dedicated video probe system.) You might want to Amazon one if you don't have one. Mine is a "Pancellent" Borescope for Android, "USB Endoscope Pancellent 2"

Here is a WiFi version (mine plugs in): https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07HJ3HNNX?ref_=cm_sw_r_cp_ud_dp_93RA071STE41WX38WB04

This is a plug-in one: 3-in-1 USB Endoscope Waterproof Semi-Rigid SnakeCable, Borescopes 5.5mm Inspection Camera IP67 Waterproof Snake Camera with 6 Adjustable LED Lights for Type-C & Android & PC, (5M/16ft): Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific
 
  • Like
Reactions: CarGuyNeil

·
Administrator
Joined
·
1,509 Posts
Great progress! I think you're on the path to a solution. Cool beans!

And you found my 10mm socket even! :D
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
1,509 Posts
So just curious, I see the upgraded ipd plenums and they don't appear to have the flap at all. Why is that?
Magic. Some things touted as "upgraded" really aren't. I'd have to see back-to-back dyno runs before I'd consider believing it's an upgrade.

In the motorcycle world where this sort of quest for HP the manufacturer thought you didn't need so, they left it on the table for some joker in his garage to discover and sell it to you.. Frequently if you do legit dyno runs (same dyno, same day, same engine, same operator - all that changes is the magic bit..) you see things like a 1-2 HP bump at high RPM with a gutting of the HP/torque at mid RPM (where you need it..) Porsche is pretty good at getting performance out of their engines, I don't believe they leave a lot on the table.

A flap like that frequently is used by manufacturers to change the resonance of the intake system to help tune it for different RPMs. Not having one limits the ability to do that. But they do have "magic" going for them.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
1,509 Posts
i was so excited that it started up but now im getting a very loud ticking from what sounds like the valve train. Oil level is good the only changes ive made are the new coils and plugs and then reconnecting the vacuum lines. Any idea why this would be so loud now? i dont remember the ticking at all prior to the vacuum issue. Would an incorrect vacuum line cause that? i wouldnt think so. so makes me think the new plugs /coils.
Did you torque the plugs? A not fully tight plug could account for that noise, if you didn't I'd suggest not driving it until you do.
 
  • Like
Reactions: eruji
1 - 13 of 13 Posts
Top