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Good point, but it's not just saving engines, it's saving the MGU-K and MGU-H as well. While energy recovery systems are pretty cool technology, they do nothing to improve racing. The fact that modern F1 cars are more fuel efficient is utterly irrelevant. How long does it take the traveling caravan to offset any savings - a few seconds?

I would like to see NA engines, refueling and more open tire choices brought back as well as limits on the aero technology. I read that many of the motorcycle racers are not keen on tracks that F1 cars race on. The downforce is so massive that it makes the track surface bumpy for the bikes. And every week they keep adding winglets and tuning the bargeboards.
 

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Completely agree. Moving all those enormous caravans, esp on the planes - offset the fuel savings in a few secs.

Just watched an old Suzuka video. Look at that constant profile front wing. Probably costed $100 to develop and $100 to make. And allowed for close racing.
 

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I would like to see NA engines, refueling and more open tire choices brought back as well as limits on the aero technology.
I wonder if Christian Horner, known advocate for bringing back NA engines, will dare to stir the pot and bring Aston Martin Valkyrie to one of the next year's Grand Prix as a pre-race showpiece. Maybe Monaco. Allegedly, the sound that NA 6.5 V12 makes is so good that it could be compared with Ferrari's 3.5 V12 they used in the early 90s for F1 racing. Hearing that (Valkyrie) booming around the buildings in Monaco would immediately show how badly the new F1 really sounds. And that would be for a street-legal vehicle - simply unheard of, ever.

Oh, yes, forgot. In case you didn't know, Cosworth provided the engine. That same same Cosworth that gave a certain German going by name Michael Schumacher his first two titles with Benetton.

Jarno Trulli had even less politically correct concerns when discussing the "modern" F1 as compared to the one he raced with in the middle '00s.

https://www.gpfans.com/en/articles/2738/what-has-formula-1-become-questions-former-driver/
 

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Trulli is absolutely correct. Having to baby the tires, engine, MGU units and whatever else does not promote racing like the video Vlad posted (which was great, thanks!). The fact that a lot of the management of the MGU units and the battery is done by the team and not the driver is especially irritating. The logical end of that progression is robot cars.

And what on earth was Senna doing with his right hand? It seemed to be coincidental with gear changes. Don't see that any more.
 

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Discussion Starter #125
The irony is that the limited number of engines is purportedly to control costs. I would be willing to bet a few dollars that if the engines did not have to last more than 2-3 races, we would have better racing and probably spend no more (maybe less) due to the ridiculous testing that has to go into making them so bullet proof. While not exactly the same (I admit up front) I can give some background from my days in ALMS with Team Rafanelli running a 550 Maranello. Our engines cost about $1,000,000 each. These were built for us by Elan Motorsports in Braselton Ga (Panoz). We ran the whole season with the engines swapping them out, rebuilt, and reused. We ran 2:45 minute sprint races, the 12 Hours of Sebring and 10 Hours of Petit. The robust construction made this possible. Our budget was $4-5M. I can tell you that Corvette had a budget of $32M for their two cars (do the math and it is about 4 times what we had per car) yet, in 2002, Team Rafanelli scored three podiums (if memory serves). We bested Corvette at least once if not twice. Our bigger competitor then was actually Prodrive also driving a 550 Maranello.
 

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After spending billions of human-dollar-hours setting up facilities, buying all the equipment and machines, developing and testing the engine... How much money do you think is saved by setting CNC machine to mill 5 engines instead of 20? From experience producing things - it's basically just the cost of metal + (relatively) cheap assembly labor. All the costs are in development, not the physical things.
 

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Watching the Mexican GP on the DVR. Lewis is certainly top driver, but I do wonder what Max would do in a silver arrow. (Yes, we are on first name basis. :)
 

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After spending billions of human-dollar-hours setting up facilities, buying all the equipment and machines, developing and testing the engine... How much money do you think is saved by setting CNC machine to mill 5 engines instead of 20? From experience producing things - it's basically just the cost of metal + (relatively) cheap assembly labor. All the costs are in development, not the physical things.
I recently watched an interview with Otmar Szafnauer of Force India. He is dead against increasing the number of engines, as they buy theirs from Mercedes and they are expensive. I guess the manufacturers don't give volume deals to their customers.
 

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Watching the Mexican GP on the DVR. Louis is certainly top driver, but I do wonder what Max would do in a silver arrow. (Yes, we are on first name basis. :)
A whole lot better than his present teammate is going to do in a Renault!
 

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Discussion Starter #130
Yep on Ricciardo to Renault. I do feel for him, though, several DNFs due to mechanical issues. I am disappointed for/about Vettel.......I think he shot himself in the foot multiple times this year by forcing some moves that were pretty sketchy. Lewis seems to make many fewer mistakes while pushing ahead.
 

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Did any of you see the moment after Vettel finished congratulating Lewis? Lewis was getting mic pushed into his face by Coulthard (I believe) in what is a very clear obligation towards F1 owners who sell TV rights out.

Yet, what did he do? He ignored him, turned and motioned 3 times "Come here!" to someone outside the TV frame who was clearly thinking it was not their place to be there. Then his physio/assistant/headologist jumped on him for what I can only say was sincerely returned long hug.

Good for you, Lewis. Kudos. What a man has that man become. You know what I mean if you remember him from 2007/2008 days.

Well deserved Championship, too.
 

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Did any of you see the moment after Vettel finished congratulating Lewis? Lewis was getting mic pushed into his face by Coulthard (I believe) in what is a very clear obligation towards F1 owners who sell TV rights out.

Yet, what did he do? He ignored him, turned and motioned 3 times "Come here!" to someone outside the TV frame who was clearly thinking it was not their place to be there. Then his physio/assistant/headologist jumped on him for what I can only say was sincerely returned long hug.

Good for you, Lewis. Kudos. What a man has that man become. You know what I mean if you remember him from 2007/2008 days.

Well deserved Championship, too.
I was glad to see that too, and also prior when Vettel interrupted Coulthard and went to congratulate Hamilton. Why on earth F1 thinks interviews immediately after they get out of the cars is a good idea, I don't know. I almost feel sorry for Coulthard and Brundle last week. They must know how annoying this is for the drivers.

Lewis has unquestionably put himself in a category of one for active drivers and in a very small group of all-time F1 drivers. There is no shortage of skill among the top drivers, but it's what is between his ears that is making the difference.
 
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Discussion Starter #133
I second or third the kudos to Hamilton on being genuine by motioning his assistant to come over. If you follow F1 regularly, you will see her helping him manage his activities, effectively. She appears to be highly attentive, reliable and does so many little things that allow him to focus totally on driving. He recognized all that by what he did. I also thought what Vettel did was classy by pushing past Coulthard to go over and it appeared give a genuine warm congratulations for a battle well fought.
 

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I recently watched an interview with Otmar Szafnauer of Force India. He is dead against increasing the number of engines, as they buy theirs from Mercedes and they are expensive. I guess the manufacturers don't give volume deals to their customers.
Good point. But Force india is not why I watch F1 :)
 

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Congrats to Lewis on getting the championship. Not much controversy this year, and well deserved... Apart from Merc making poor Bottas let Lewis through to get 50 points lead instead of 47...

And Kimi is still last Ferrari champion! Go Kimi!
 

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Discussion Starter #137
Force India has done remarkably well for such modest funding. I wonder what the infusion of Strohl working capital will do. In theory, if directed properly, it will put them just behind Red Bull or contesting with them.
 

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I think now that we are in the hybrid era whatever we are fine. Stick to the formula. Don't put in massive engine regulation changes so manufacturers can catch up to Ferrari and Mercedes. What we need to fix is the crazy aero trickery as was already mentioned. That's the number one problem. And in 2019 they are taking a step in that direction by reducing the complexity of the aero both for the front and rear wings. That's already a move in the right direction IMO.
 

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I think now that we are in the hybrid era whatever we are fine. Stick to the formula. Don't put in massive engine regulation changes so manufacturers can catch up to Ferrari and Mercedes. What we need to fix is the crazy aero trickery as was already mentioned. That's the number one problem. And in 2019 they are taking a step in that direction by reducing the complexity of the aero both for the front and rear wings. That's already a move in the right direction IMO.
Yeah, but they could've walked a mile. Instead the will make a step, than all make puzzled faces when nothing much changed. I say ban any openings/slots in the wings. And lower the sqftage (in vertical projection)
 
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