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I am not sure I like this idea of putting a cup holder right behind the shifter.
I assume the cupholder in your car is in the same spot in mine. You think its a good idea to have it right next to and above the console? One good bump or hard turn and it goes flying. There are several threads on RL or 6SP about this and alternatives on the floor.

The cupholders in the sports cars have always been afterthoughts. Real driver's don't drink anything while driving. BTW, this isn't fake news, its real. There is a thread on Reddit, an AMA, about this from a PCNA employee. https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/wvbca/iama_former_employee_of_porsche_cars_north/
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
The swing out, cup holders in my car are not that great. The one closest to me however is easy to reach and will hold a Contigo for coffee or a small bottle of water. They, the cup holders, also tend to rattle.
OTOH, with my manual, if the cup holder had been positioned behind the shifter, I would never use it.
Usually, I just keep a bottle of water for longer drives and rarely drink anything else in the car.
 

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The swing out, cup holders in my car are not that great. The one closest to me however is easy to reach and will hold a Contigo for coffee or a small bottle of water.
And when you hit a bump, or turn to fast, and that cup jostles, .... liquid all over the console. Do a search on RL or elsewhere and people whine about it all the time. They are afterthoughts. The new interior I think comes from the Panny. You know, time to update everything with a new look. LCD gauges too. No more real gauges. Got to be "modern".
 

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Real gauges suck, actually. Because it's usually quite difficult to read anything but very approximate values from one. If you can read your analog speedometer at a glance to anything closer than ~10 MPH, you've got better eyeballs than I do. Though admittedly that's partially because those are so compressed in current Porsches, both Caymans and 991's, with numbers every 25 MPH instead of 10. Similarly, the two temperature gauges are very approximate compared to the digital ones available on the MFD. Not that I really care that much beyond "oil is up to temp," but there's no question that the digital versions are much more functional.

Not everything is good just because it's old and traditional. There's a lot things to complain about in those images of the new interior, but more LCD instruments aren't one of them.

I am sincerely hoping, for example, that they haven't screwed up the mode selector as much as it appears they did, and haven't eliminated manual shifting with the shifter entirely. A lot in those photos are clearly temporary jury rigs for a test mule, not what you'll see in a production car.
 

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Real gauges suck, actually. Because it's usually quite difficult to read anything but very approximate values from one. If you can read your analog speedometer at a glance to anything closer than ~10 MPH, you've got better eyeballs than I do.
You misunderstand. I don't mean digital readouts. I think the new gauges look just like analog ones, just LCD or whatever they use these days with a dial. Watch. It's made to emulate the analog gauges.

 

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They briefly cover the instruments at the 15 minute mark in that video, and yeah, they're overusing emulated analog gauges in the Panamera instead of actually innovating. That's more about their iffy user interface decisions than the fact that they're LCDs, though. It's not all a waste, since it's apparent they're using the center of the left display for more than just a badly designed simulated analog speedometer, but they could definitely have done more.

I suppose that's not really a surprise, since Porsche has always been kind of bad at user interface on their electronics. I haven't really sat down with the 991.2 PCM yet, but the 991.1 PCM interface was remarkably clunky.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 · (Edited)
My 911 could benefit from a simpler set of gauges. The small ones at the far end of the cluster are hidden and not useful. The large tach in the middle and digital display of speed is all I look at and the MFD for various things like tire pressure and oil and coolant temperatures.

Cup holders are fine for me. I don't care much either way and am glad there are not behind the shift lever.

Where I think the interior could use improvement is in build quality. There are quite a few buzzing, vibrating and rubbing sounds in the interior especially when the car is cold and when driving on even mildly rough pavement. Maybe nothing can be done because the car has a firm suspension and things work themselves loose after a few thousand miles.
Wheel wells seem to have no sound deadening because even tiny twigs or pebbles bounce of the underside of the car and transmit the noise to the cabin quite loudly.
Finally, the tires selected by Porsche, P zeros are very noisy. They drown out every other sound on the highway. This has been written about in reviews as well.
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2017-porsche-911-carrera-4s-test-review

"The one aspect that might not make one feel grand about touring in a 911 C4S is interior noise. Road and tire noise raise the sound level to 76 decibels at 70 mph, which is anything but luxurious. Even the Mercedes-AMG GT S belts out 74 decibels at 70, so the 911 isn’t horrible in this regard, but ears can grow tired of the abuse on longer trips."
 

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Finally, the tires selected by Porsche, P zeros are very noisy. They drown out every other sound on the highway. This has been written about in reviews as well.
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2017-porsche-911-carrera-4s-test-review

"The one aspect that might not make one feel grand about touring in a 911 C4S is interior noise. Road and tire noise raise the sound level to 76 decibels at 70 mph, which is anything but luxurious. Even the Mercedes-AMG GT S belts out 74 decibels at 70, so the 911 isn’t horrible in this regard, but ears can grow tired of the abuse on longer trips."
Here is another C&D article which suggests that the Pirellis are no louder than the Michelins, at least at 60 mph. In fact, the differences between all five tested tires are minimal.

https://www.caranddriver.com/featur...ure-final-scoring-and-performance-data-page-2
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 · (Edited)
Here is another C&D article which suggests that the Pirellis are no louder than the Michelins, at least at 60 mph. In fact, the differences between all five tested tires are minimal.

https://www.caranddriver.com/featur...ure-final-scoring-and-performance-data-page-2
I posted a link to this comparison in the tires and wheels thread. Here are some observations from that article. No comments about P zeros but I am familar with this tire (not this PZ4 though).

Our sound meter reported minimal measurable differences between the five tire sets at a steady 60 mph, though our ears did pick up meaningful differences in sound quality on public roads.

Goodyear’s tire does deliver less ride harshness than both the Hankook and Continental tires, and road noise is nicely managed, but neither of those qualities is what makes a summer perform*ance tire great.

The Ventus V12 Evo2 is laterally soft when loaded up in a corner, and steering inputs are imprecise. On wet surfaces, its favorable progressivism dries up. It also emits tones that penetrate the cabin, with a high-pitched zip as it rolls and loud thumps over imperfections.

(P zeros) ' But it does offer commendable compliance on the road, and at $153 apiece, it’s the cheapest tire here. When we look at the test results, though, there’s a clear dividing line separating the top tier from the rest of the class. The Pirelli is on the wrong side of it.

(Contis) Our ears registered louder thwacks compared with the competitors over the same cracks and expansion joints on-road—similar to the almost metallic clank of a bouncing basketball. But that’s a small price to pay for exceptional wet grip and impressive dry performance. Plus, Continental asks only $164 for the ExtremeContact Sport, $34 less than our winner.

Out in the real world, the Michelin demonstrated a subtle tendency to follow grooves in the road. Otherwise, the Pilot Sport 4 S is as docile in traffic as it is around a racetrack, never hammering down imperfections nor singing on the smooth stuff.
 

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My 911 could benefit from a simpler set of gauges.
That's not going to happen. 911s are five gauge pods period. Always, AFAIK, been that way. Of course, they could have dumped that years ago but its tradition, just like the ignition on the left. Maybe the Mission E will have no gauges.

[/QUOTE] Wheel wells seem to have no sound deadening because even tiny twigs or pebbles bounce of the underside of the car and transmit the noise to the cabin quite loudly. [/QUOTE]

True. You're supposed to hear the road. You're supposed to hear those twigs. It does sound like everything makes metallic sounds underneath. If you are not used to it, you might thing :confused: If it didn't, they would have to add layers of goo or undercoating to sound deaden the car. Sports cars, relatively speaking, are supposed to be light. Now add all that emissions, mpg stuff and the want lighter and lighter. See 0 to 62mph. OFFICIAL.: 2012 All-New Porsche 911 (991): Light Weight Construction Body.

"the bodyshell, therefore, we used very thin, but nevertheless extremely rigid, sheets of steel. Aluminium and magnesium were used extensively in areas such as the roof, underbody, front end, doors, rear wings and engine compartment and luggage compartment lids. Lightweight magnesium was also selected for the cockpit support beam. Such material efficiency is key to reducing the overall weight and, as a result, fuel consumption of the vehicle."

I doubt they made the .2 heavier. The car is acting exactly as designed.

Just
saying ....
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 · (Edited)
"the bodyshell, therefore, we used very thin, but nevertheless extremely rigid, sheets of steel. Aluminium and magnesium were used extensively in areas such as the roof, underbody, front end, doors, rear wings and engine compartment and luggage compartment lids. Lightweight magnesium was also selected for the cockpit support beam. Such material efficiency is key to reducing the overall weight and, as a result, fuel consumption of the vehicle."

I doubt they made the .2 heavier. The car is acting exactly as designed.

Just
saying ....
OK. But Porsche also offers options that add weight such as 18-ways seats, glass sunroof etc. (like in my car). Most 911s I see have quite a few luxury trappings. I don't see too many stripped 911s. And dealers don't want to order them either. No profit in low option cars. Some models like the Targas are considerably heavier than the standard Carreras.
You also see folks in Rennlist suggesting adding dynmat etc. to minimize cabin noise as well as liners for the wheel wells to minimize road noise. But that is besides the point.
I doubt adding a few pounds of sound deadening to eliminate the sounds of rocks bouncing off the wheel wells will in some way detract from the sportiness of the car. In the end these are road cars meant for everyday use. To me, the noise is not a big bother but just something I noticed.

Now tire roar from the Pirellis I do find annoying. Perhaps I would not have noticed it so much if not for the Conti winter tires and how much quieter they sound to my ears. It could be that I am sensitive to sounds in a certain frequency range.
 

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Seems like they got the inspiration from the honda s2000... Where everybody hated it.

Anyway, real men use T-Design cupholder, period! Puts your drink exactly where you can grab it without looking or leaning sideways. And it can take any Gs you can squeeze out of the car.

Nurburgring Cup Holder for Porsche

 
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Maybe the Mission E will have no gauges.
This is, in fact, what Tesla did with the Model 3.


If, for example, you want to know something trivial like, oh, how fast you're going, you have to use that center iPad that was bolted on as an afterthought. After watching Doug DeMuro giving an actual production copy of the car a thorough going-over, I was absolutely appalled by the terrible design decisions. The lack of the absolute basics in instruments was #1 on my list.

I think it's great that we've got an EV-only car company now, but man, I do not understand how this got out of the drawing board stage. You'd think someone, anyone would have said it was a terrible idea.

I guess the moral of this little sidetrack of mine is that as unappealing as some of the 992 changes look, it could be much, much worse.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
I guess if I ever bought a model 3, I would prefer that it drive itself so that I can take a nap in the backseat.
 
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