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Due to the lighting... The small car has light from the camera LED (blue light) while the bigger one has light from the regular light bulbs (yellow light).
But I think this is a great example of how the color may appear under different circumstances - either blue or teal...
Yeah, I was joking. The best shot at that picture if using cell phone is outdoor on a slightly cloudy day. Place the model car on the hood or roof and then take a picture.



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Hello,
Great new GT4 in perfect blue.Enjoy!
Looking forward reading your experiences with this dream car.
I guess you will take insurance when driving this one on the track ?
Reading last week there is a recall for the 4.0 engine !? Are you aware?
Have question about yr previous Cayman 981 (same a mine)
You changed the brakes to 718 Cayman S breaks.
Why not to 981 Cayman S ?
Regards
Peter
 

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Discussion Starter · #23 ·
Last Sunday (25th) I finally drove the car as it was meant to be driven - aka I attended a track day close to where I live. And here are my impressions...

First of all, the track... It is called Transilvania Motor Ring and it opened 2 years ago. It is build on top of a hill and, over the past 2 years, the hill started to move... The track is, as such, very bumpy and, in parts, dangerous. I new bump appeared on a heavy braking zone - braking from 210kph / 130 mph for a chicane - and that caught me off-guard. Hence I used the run off space and no drama:



Some repairs will be done to the track but they will only start at the end of May. There is another track day scheduled before and I am planning to attend that one as well.

The event (trackday) was organized by a rally driving school and it was extremely crowded. That is a good thing, in general, since I prefer to see people pushing their cars on track instead of the public roads, but not ideal for me because I really wanted to see what the car is capable of and there was no space. One thing that really annoyed me is that the drivers were only occasionally watching their rear view mirrors and, a lot of drivers were using the ideal line even on cool down laps and with faster cars coming from behind. I think I had 1 or 2 laps without traffic (out of the 54 laps the Porsche Track Precision App recorded until the phone died) and these were with passengers. So I couldn't really push 100% and the car was noticeably heavier with 90kg / 200 lbs extra. None the less, I managed a 1:42.6 with the GT4 (alone in the car), l compared to 1:48.5 with the 981 Black Edition. I can still go lower - traffic, different suspension setup, better driver.
Here is the best lap:


The data overlay is from the Porsche Track Precision App.
All in all, it was nice to spend some time on the track with some new and old friends.



Next up, the best passenger lap, a few more things about the car setup and a few ideas about the video and data overlay.
Any thoughts / advices are welcome.
Cheers!

P.S. Found a good use for the rear spoiler :) - drying the T-Shirt

 

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Discussion Starter · #24 ·
Since I anticipate I will be very busy over the next days (Easter, spending time with the family, etc) and since I also received some photos of the car, I thought of sharing those and sharing the impressions of the car from the previous track day (without the passenger lap video yet).

So, photos first :) :









And about the car:
  • awesome engine - pulls like crazy (for my standards) and it's extremely responsive
  • awesome engine noise from inside the cabin. I only need a louder exhaust for the people watching but that is not important right now :).
  • the car is definitely more rigid compared to the 981 Black Edition even if the 981 was with the sport chassis turned on and the 718 is with the sport suspension turned off. The 718 is definitely better suited for trackdays - no surprises there :))
  • the brakes are great but they do need some improvements - started fading if pushed hard for a lot of laps. I will have the Manthey Racing pads and the steel brake lines which should solve the problem. My car is not unbalanced when braking hard from high speeds, like other cars over here on stock setup.
  • the cars' balance is great, but not exceptional. Please keep in mind I am 100% stock, I have not changed the alignment or sway bars. The car understeers more than I would like but I guess this will be solved in July when I visit Manthey Racing as well.
  • the Porsche Track Precision App is absolutely awesome! I highly recommend it for the trackday videos.
  • can't really feel the aero working because I am a bit too afraid to push in the areas where the aero is important.

All in all I love the way the car handles on track and it is clear that, besides the small alignment and brake mods, I should spend more time perfecting my skills.
None the less, this trip is a good starting point to measure the progress.
 

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Discussion Starter · #25 ·
And the only passenger lap I didn't encounter any traffic is the best one - imagine that :). I am only 0.4 sec slower than the lap above and, usually the passenger is costing me more than that... So there still is room for improvement.


Any advice is welcome!
 

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3 years into ownership and I still get compliments on the Miami Blue. It automatically elevates the car's class. No regrets on the choice.
 

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Discussion Starter · #27 ·
Even if my last trackday was on the 21st of May, only a few days ago I managed to find a workaround for the exporting issue present in the Porsche Track Precision App... Without it I only had the VBOX data - speed, G-forces and location but not the RPM, gear, throttle and brake pedal positions or understeer / oversteer information. So, now that I have the PTPA data & videos, I can share this experience as well...

First of all, it was a nice and warm day, perfect for a track day. But it was, once more, a very crowded event. A Porsche club from the Ukraine also decided to join so there were 20-30 Porsche present - most of them with very quick cars (GT3's or 992 Turbo S's) but with no particular track knowledge or skill. Also a lot of the participants, even if they were slow, or on their cool down laps, they would still drive the racing line and you had to be very careful not to cause an accident. I, once more, had a handful of laps with no traffic - I think that I have to attend more exclusive events if I want to have more freedom...
Anyway, the car behaved great, except for some corners (especially right corners) where the understeer seemed even greater that the last time. I still have the OEM alignment - I am scheduled for a change only in July, at Manthey Racing. With this setup, due to understeer and the lack of camber, the left front tire took a beating and this is the result:



So, a pair of new PS Cup 2 have been ordered.
I tried to find alternatives, but besides the Trofeo R, I didn't manage to find other track tires 245/35 R20 and 295/30 R20 (per the laws where I live, I am obligated to have these tire sizes). Any ideas?

Tires aside, I had a great time with my friends and it was quite nice to have a few "taxi" laps. This prevented me from improving my overall best time, but it was worth it...
I would only like to share with you 2 consecutive laps with a good friend of mine - Stefan.

He is the owner of the VW mk5 Golf (TDI) below.



With him I've had a number of chase videos since 2010 - when we first met on track. Until now, we always had close cars and we are of similar skill (he is a bit better than I am). His modified mk5 was faster than my stock(ish) 981 Black Edition but now, the GT4 is considerably faster than his Golf (the Golf has ~240hp, 1200kg, PSS 10 coilovers, sway bars, AP Racing BBK, AR1's and other mods). Below are a few laps where Stefan is in the passenger seat.


I know a few areas where I can improve, but any advice about lines / approach / etc is welcomed.

Next up, tire change and than the trip to Nurburgring - July 5th-6th

P.S. I truly love the fact that I can use the car on track just as it came off the production line... Yes, there are areas of improvement (understeer and tires) but the cars is awesome... The gearing is long but it is not affecting driving enjoyment on track... Still, I don't love it as much as the 981 though (might have to do with the sound).
 

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It is impossible to comment on someone's driving on the track you've never driven on. You are not making any blatant mistakes - as it should be after 11 years of experience. But man, those tires really look like crap.

Did you ask other people how their tires fare? How about 911s? Or how about your buddy? By all parameters and by my experience, Golf should destroy fronts much faster or even double the rate of Cayman. Meaning, for your 100 km on track, Golf should have same destruction in 75 km if not 50 km.

My old E92 BMW would destroy fronts at the same rate of rears - on the same exact track now (at even faster clip) Cayman takes two sets of rears to one set of fronts.

If it were rears going I would tell you "gotta pay to play", but with those fronts something is off. I would like to believe that all Porsches get out of factory with same alignment regardless of the market - but how about checking toe angle on that GT4? If it is out negative [toe in], I would bring it to zero before next event and then see what happens. Just to set a baseline to work from.

Second thing that is hard for me to really see from the video (not sure if you are doing it or not) is excessive trailbraking - especially not necessary on a car like GT4 with LSD. You could try to split rotation duties between rear differential where better (neutral camber, flat or slightly uphill) and trailbrake where that is better solution (negative camber, slightly downhill). Or simply decide to completely skip trailbraking and go for "slow in fast out" approach for one whole event and see what happens.

Do one thing at the time, though - not both at the same time. Good luck and have a good fun!

My event on May 8th was eventful, to say the least. I did the first 450 degrees rotation in my career :) It is simply unbelievable what cold track and wet tire from going through rain puddle 40 m before the corner does to your grip. Nonetheless, the event was epic, speed was very good and grip was great in the afternoon. Getting ready to go next Friday again to Mid-Ohio.

EDIT: Check the Mid-Ohio track in a video from a reasonably "normal" car driven. The guy in white GT3 was instructing in a few of the events I participated in. Fast. Track is really awesome to drive even if it looks pretty bad aesthetically.

 

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Discussion Starter · #29 ·
Wow, thank you for the details reply :).

Did you ask other people how their tires fare? How about 911s? Or how about your buddy? By all parameters and by my experience, Golf should destroy fronts much faster or even double the rate of Cayman. Meaning, for your 100 km on track, Golf should have same destruction in 75 km if not 50 km.
Yes and no. I've seen my friends suffer the same problems as my but over a longer period of time. Also their tires (AR1's primarly) have a different profile that is harder to break.
I did not have similar issues on the Golf since I have 2.5 negative camber on the front. And it is clear that there is not enough camber since the tires are broken but you can see they are used on the outside shoulders. I think the fact that I am using the kerbs on the last corners and the fact that I am running 20+ laps in a session (with cool-down laps in between, of course) have the above outcome.

If it were rears going I would tell you "gotta pay to play", but with those fronts something is off. I would like to believe that all Porsches get out of factory with same alignment regardless of the market - but how about checking toe angle on that GT4? If it is out negative [toe in], I would bring it to zero before next event and then see what happens. Just to set a baseline to work from.
I have no idea what the stock alignment is... I will have it checked and modified with the OEM suspension kit install at Manthey Racing (early July).

Second thing that is hard for me to really see from the video (not sure if you are doing it or not) is excessive trailbraking - especially not necessary on a car like GT4 with LSD. You could try to split rotation duties between rear differential where better (neutral camber, flat or slightly uphill) and trailbrake where that is better solution (negative camber, slightly downhill). Or simply decide to completely skip trailbraking and go for "slow in fast out" approach for one whole event and see what happens.
I try to tailbrake to use the available grip to the maxim and to rotate the car into the corner.
I will try some more of the "slow in fast out" after I have the aligment done and I can re-calibrate with the car.

My event on May 8th was eventful, to say the least. I did the first 450 degrees rotation in my career :) It is simply unbelievable what cold track and wet tire from going through rain puddle 40 m before the corner does to your grip. Nonetheless, the event was epic, speed was very good and grip was great in the afternoon. Getting ready to go next Friday again to Mid-Ohio.
Glad to hear nothing serious happened... 450 degrees is quite a lot. Dare to share the video :) ?
Mid-Ohio seems like a very nice and technical track. I like it a lot :).

EDIT: Check the Mid-Ohio track in a video from a reasonably "normal" car driven. The guy in white GT3 was instructing in a few of the events I participated in. Fast. Track is really awesome to drive even if it looks pretty bad aesthetically.
Thanks for sharing. I am not impressed by the GT3, but I am impressed by the Viper driver :).
 

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Hello,
Can you pls explain what you say: "Still, I don't love it as much as the 981 though " ?
As a 981 Cayman driver dreaming also of a GT4 this sounds strange to me...
Rgs
 

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Discussion Starter · #31 ·
I like the 981 more because I think the styling was nicer especially for daily usage, because I could enjoy it more and because of the engine sound - much better than in the GT4.
The GT4 is clearly a better car, but that doesn't mean I like it more...
 

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Glad to hear nothing serious happened... 450 degrees is quite a lot. Dare to share the video :) ?
Mid-Ohio seems like a very nice and technical track. I like it a lot :).
Unfortunately, I got tired of carrying GoPro with me so I do not have a video of that. Too bad, because I think it would be impressive for Boxster/Cayman owners. Brief points:

- It didn't take more than (what it seems to me and my memory) 0.1 second for transition grip -> no grip whatsoever. They call it "snap oversteer" for a reason. Nannies were on, no chance of reaction or doing anything about it.

- The whole thing was over in, what seems to me, interval between 2 and 3 seconds. Car rotated full 360, pointing the right way again; but since it was I and not Verstappen behind the wheel and on the pedals, it did rotate another 90 degrees with both brake and clutch pedals pressed until rotation stopped.

- If you go back to that Mid-Ohio video, it happened under the Honda bridge, what the guy calls Turn 9. Listen where we get on power, that's roughly where the rotation started, almost immediately. I ended rotating with front wheels maybe 0.5 meters from the white line on the left side of the track and below yellow curb, car's nose pointing left. What that means is that, when our cars rotate, they truly rotate around Z axis of the center of gravity without front or rear end tugging and changing the rotation trajectory - I never even touched the grass. It moved in a straight line in XoY plane like a top on a kitchen table. Impressive.

- If I happened to go on the grass, it was completely wet and that would mean hitting the wall for sure. Which might have happened with front- or rear-engined car. I guess I will blissfully never know. :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #33 · (Edited)
Managed to change the front tires:



Under a closer inspection, even if the left right tires are really bad, it is clear that the outside of the tire has worn more than the inside:



It is the same with the right tire:



So, it is clear I need more camber!
I will use the car as it is right now on the next Nurburgring trip (July 5-6) - as I prefer to know the car than to have a good setup but not be used to the car...

 

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Due to the lighting... The small car has light from the camera LED (blue worktime light) while the bigger one has light from the regular light bulbs (yellow light).
But I think this is a great example of how the color may appear under different circumstances - either blue or teal...
Yes, it's very convenient in fact, it's easier to pour, I agree with you.
 

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So, it is clear I need more camber!
I will use the car as it is right now on the next Nurburgring trip (July 5-6) - as I prefer to know the car than to have a good setup but not be used to the car...
Smart move. You could try to avoid trailbraking as much as possible and see what happens.

You might need more camber on front wheels, but this is a GT car, it should be good to go out of the box with minor tweaks to suit tire, track and personal preferences. Let me put it to you this way ... If you knew Sergio Perez drove 3 hours stints in GT4 on Sport Cup 2 tire during some exhibition BS on Nuerburgring, on allegedly stock car, before he had to come in for tire change ... would you modify the front camber or modify the driver? :)

Since you will never see that (Perez driving stock GT4 at full tilt for 3 hours), it is much cheaper to imagine that it DID happen and see if you can match him than chasing perfect front camber. Just my 2 cents and worth even less. :)

Finally, I signed up with Northern New Jersey Region PCA to go on Mid-Ohio. On July 9th. It will be a hot one, I hope I will not pass out. 😱 Yes, I am horribly susceptible to heat, hate it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #36 ·
Ha ha.. you are correct @CinciOH ... I am sure the driver must improve but I am also sure I need more camber - of course I don't mind if I am proven wrong :).
For me, the fact that the tires are more worn on the outside is a clear indication of the lack of camber - I've seen this in other cars and with camber I solved the issue. Again, happy to be proven wrong :).

Finally, I signed up with Northern New Jersey Region PCA to go on Mid-Ohio. On July 9th. It will be a hot one, I hope I will not pass out. 😱 Yes, I am horribly susceptible to heat, hate it.
Super! Have fun! I am allergic to cold (for real) - so I can take the heat just fine :))

P.S. The Nordscheife is not as challenging on the tires as other circuits are... So I don't expect to have issues over there even if we are talking about 2 full days of track usage.
 

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Again, happy to be proven wrong :).
Well, I am, too. You never learn anything unless you are proven wrong. So, please let us know what happened on your local track once you change the camber.

Also, I thought you were doing F1 track, not Nordschleife. Well, enjoy! And I wish you a dry day.

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Sorry for OT, but here are people who do tracks, no one else would understand the achievement.

Ah ... The old adage that someone is always faster and if not faster, than crazier. I cannot even start to imagine God drug overload this guy is getting doing this. Mind, this is not snowboarder going gaga on relatively soft surface. This is us, passing regular crazies going the other way on two lane road hopefully on their side of the road, without any protection (he is totally, completely insane for that) going down a mountain on asphalt edged with boulders and unprotected dropoff with ... Wait for it ... No brakes whatsoever. Holy $hit!


I am quitting. That's it.


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What is it exactly?
 
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