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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
When I saw that TPC was doing a Methanol kit in a 987.2, I started wondering about putting it in my 987.1 which has undergone the conversion to a 3.7. It didn't take a lot of conversation with Mike Levitas to convince me that the reward is probably worth the risk, so while my car is apart, I authorized the procurement and installation of a methanol kit.

My car turned 460 wheel HP on the dyno at 6 psi boost after the Stage 2 conversion when the engine was still a 3.4. Low boost (4 psi) produced 406 WHP. Doing a straight volume ratio, the 3.7 alone should put out about 435 at low boost and 490 on high boost. These numbers are probably conservative since there is no allowance for timing margin generated by lowering the compression ratio to 10:1. But, it is in keeping with the premise of underpromise and overperform. The Methanol injection will add conservatively 30 WHP if we only consider the cooling of the intake charge, so the car will, I believe, produce numbers significantly over 500 WHP. We wil see.

The kit consists of a 1 gal tank in the front of the car, a pressurization pump, an injector in the throttle body, and a controller programmed by TPC that meters Methanol flow as a function of RPM, boost, and throttle demand. The engine ECU has a separate map for the Methanol on state and reverts to "stock" for the Methanol off state.

There are two major advantages to Methanol injection. First, it cools the intake charge due to its high heat of vaporization which increases the density of the fuel-air mixture and produces more energy in the combustion chamber. The second advantage is effective octane increase. I haven't researched mixture ratios to state exact numbers, but it should be easy to get the effective octane rating somewhere between 100 and 110 which will allow more aggressive timing and higher WHP numbers.

In my estimation, there are two groups of Gen 1 Cayman drivers who could get appreciable gains out of a Methanol system: turbo systems without intercoolers, and folks limited to 91 octane fuel. For the 91 octane crowd, fuel cost will significantly decrease for those who purchase 100 or 110 racing fuel.

That's about it for now. I'll get some pics and some more technical details.
 

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2 questions:
1) cost for said system (including tuning), and
2) ease/time of install? I would not be doing myself.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Spent some time over at TPC today. Most of the parts are in, we are just waiting on the methanol Pump. Here's what is in so far.

This is the Methanol tank. 1 gal capacity. The first pic is the front of the tank. It will be mounted in the forward trunk. The fitting will connect the tank to the pump. The brackets will be mounted on the trunk wall to hold the tank in place.



This is the top of the tank with the cap not installed. The wide mouth facilitates filling.



These are the hoses in the kit. The braided hose carries the pressurized methanol from the pump to the injector nozzle. For the hose in the engine compartment, there will be two preloaded check valves to prevent boiling in the high temperature environment that exists in our engine bays between track periods. The preload increases the pressure in the hose that increases the boiling temperature. The cracking pressure on the valves is well within the load carrying capability of the hoses. I would really hate spraying methanol into me engine bay. The boiling point of Methanol at atmospheric pressure is 148.5 deg f, and I can see that there could be areas in our engine bay that could get that hot. If the methanol boils, it will cause a stuttering response until all of the vapor is cleared from the line. That would be disconcerting, at the least



Next is the injector nozzle. It is already installed and can be located by following the red hose from the throttle body to the aluminum section with the vent pipe. It is the small brass fitting. That mounting point was chosen to position the nozzle far enough upstream of the throttle body to insure that the spray completely vaporizes before it gets to the sensors in the intake. The intake temperature sensor could be cooled out of range if wetted with liquid methanol as it subsequently evaporates.



The injector nozzle orifice is actually quite small. Some systems introduce an appreciable fraction of methanol to the fuel-air mixture. In this system, the function of the methanol is to cool the air charge and increase the fuel octane, so it does not appreciably contribute to the fuel-air mixture. It may be more accurate to think of it as a fuel additive that gives race fuel performance at about a quarter the price.

Next is the controller computer. The primary inputs to the computer are RPM and intake manifold pressure. The computer will not begin methanol injection until a certain MAP (Manifold Absolute Pressure) is achieved and then meters the methanol as a function of MAP and RPM. This gives the tuner more flexibility and control in the entire load range of the engine. The computer meters methanol flow by controlling pump output pressure.



Control of the system is provided by the control panel. It turns the system on and off and the knob can be used to change the methanol flow. I should not have to ever adjust the knob. Mike will determine the optimum position and initiation MAP during the tuning dyno runs.



There is also a low methanol light that will be mounted in the car, but I do not have a picture of it. I will update it as the build proceeds.

One thing I was worried about was system failure. In a lot of other systems that use a significant fraction of methanol as fuel, loss of the methanol can cause a significantly lean condition that can quickly roast pistons and valves. In this system, the fuel-air ratio in the ECU is essentially unchanged, so if the methanol fails, the stock system will begin to detect detonation and retard the timing, but the fuel-air mixture will stay at a safe level to control piston and valve temperatures. I am very comfortable putting this system in my car.

That's about it for now. As the build moves forward, I will provide more data and pics.
 

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Cayman The Destroyer!
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Very cool. I'd like to do this to my car. Not to run a higher boost but to be able to run 91 octane and use the alky to boost octane
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 · (Edited)
TPC received the methanol pump today. Now the install can begin!!

 
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awesome - just my thread I ordered th kit for my gen2 tpc lp turbo'ed car :)

keep the pics and results coming - I am very anxiously waiting seeing my package leave tpc sometime next week, lol :hilarious:
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Well, here we go. Some of the installs that have happened this week.

First, the methanol tank and pump are installed in the forward trunk. The steel braided line is the high pressure pump output.



And, while not directly related to the methanol injection, here is the power steering fluid cooler installed. We will put a small air scoop in the bottom aero fairing to provide cooling air.



It is coming together!!
 

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cool! I have the same additional cooler setup however for my PDK


regarding the meth:
where along do you exactly install or place the lines from the pump to the engine compartment?

and how do you see the info from alkycontrol's website yourself?
since I see no brackets around the tank and the pump right next to it inside the trunk?

exerpt from the alkycontrol website:

If a trunk system is desired, the only way to do so is with an SFI approved fuel cell with the appropriate brackets to properly secure the tank to the frame of the vehicle. Understand that using methanol as a liquid, now proper ventilation outside of the vehicle must also be addressed. And the pump CAN NOT be placed inside of the trunk. It needs to be mounted externally. The reason.. simple. If the pump operates at very high pressures, and were ever to develop a leak, a serious potential problem could ensue.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
The meth cell is built to SFI standards. The bracket in the car is mounted to the forward trunk wall with captive fastener nut plates.

Yes, the pump is in the trunk. If it were outside the trunk and spraying, the spray would go back into the hot engine compartment, so I think it is safer to contain the leak in the trunk where it will leak out more slowly and reduce the fire hazard. That's just me, though.

The routing of the meth line will go down the driver side (left side in US) as in this pic



Yes, I know the picture is sideways. I'm not smart enough to rotate it.

The pressure line is stainless steel braided to protect against puncture. It will be mounted with brackets and zip ties and further protected by the aerodynamic bottom plate.

The car is running today. TPC took it for a drive then put it back on the lift for retorque and leak check and to clean up the installation of the controller wires.

Break-in dyno and power tune dyno tomorrow!!! Can't wait!!!!
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
The car is running, the ECU is flashed. Mike Levitas and I talked about how to proceed and I concurred (as I usually do) in his recommendation.

Considering the hardness of the cylinder coating, seating the piston rings properly is very important, slowly building up rpm and load to seat them. SO the plan is for Mike to drive the car for several days doing the relatively low rpm and loading, then, late this week, he will put it on the dyno and stage it up in both rpm and load for 2 to 3 hours, then do full power dyno runs.

We also decided to simplify the mechanization. The original plan was to use the dongle to specify the meth vs non meth schedule. But we will simply run the meth schedule full time. Practically, running it this way is almost no impact to street driving since the meth schedule doesn't even start until the boost pressure is 2 to 3 psi and then ramps up as a function of load. And I like simple.

I will not be able to pick the car up until late next week due to some minor surgery this week (I'm having my eyelids chopped and channeled so they don't droop over my pupils) and will not be back in battery until next week. Oh well, doing it right is much more important than doing it fast. But we will post the dyno as soon as practical. Can't wait to get my Sally back.
 

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hi there - did you get your car back by now?

what are your impressions on the meth?

my personal ones are a bit understated at this point -

setting the meth controller reveals since my car actually only builds up to 4.5 psi

that I am running a too much of low boost application for the meth...

if i set the turn on for the meth to start spraying too early then i get exhaust

popp sounds when laying off the gase = too rich fuel

if i set the turn on to react later - maybe around a bit over 2 psi

then i can reduce the popp sounds - will try to set until they disappear

but i have to admit - i do not get a punch from meth at all and

am once again:) questioning a mod's effectiveness - I will measure it with the

p/box eventually with and without meth to know it - my butt-o-meter can't

measure any increase in power as result of the meth spraying yet...:cheers:
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Mike Levitas has been tuning the initiation boost pressure and schedule ramp all week. He has been taking it out on the road and investigating different street scenarios since we selected to have a single operating mode for the car. He is fairly confident that he is ready to do high power today. I hope so. I miss my gal.

On your car, I would not expect to see a power boost right away because I think it will take the ECU a while to advance the timing enough to notice the added power. I don't know how long it would take to adjust the timing.

As I get more data, I'll keep you informed.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Well, when you do strange things, strange things happen. Began power runs on the dyno today. With boost controller OFF, the car dynoed at barely 500 WHP. Turned the boost controller on for about 6 psi and advanced the timing 1 deg. With the rpm going through 6000 and the horsepower well north of 500, the clutch started slipping, the rpm went up sharply, and the clutch is probably roasted. Too bad. I thought the X51 clutch would hold the power, but maybe I had glazed it or something. So now we go back to the thinking caps and figure out what to do about the clutch. Maybe stronger springs, a more aggressive material. Mike Levitas will investigate and make a recommendation which will be a little tough since I want the car to be good on the street as well as the track. So stay tuned and we will see what happens.

Rats, I was hoping to have my Sally home for Father's day.
 

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The X51 clutch will not take north of 500 rear working HP.

I have a hybrid picked up by the folks at Vision originally designed for Diverdog's car. I just piggyback on his cars work. Our cars should provide 530 to 550 whp w/ 100 octane
 

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Another option would be a Tilton multi disk. Very nice & very expensive
 

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Another option would be a Tilton multi disk. Very nice & very expensive
I drove the Tilton in Dwain's race car during the Tribute to Lemans (1st in class and 2nd overall BTW) and I would not like it in a street car. Very short throw and abrubt take up. Maybe they make a different model for the street.

The hybrid being used in your car seems to be holding, yes?

Another option, for even more holding, may be the hybrid with a copper puck disc (AASCO custom). We run the copper puck disc in the race car to hold the added TQ of the 3.8 while using a 3.4 PP and FW and it works great.

Levitas can call Dwain and ask him about the option.

Cheers,
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Thanks for the leads. I appreciate it. We went into the build wondering if the clutch would handle it. We inspected it and Mike's comment was "you obviously know how to take care of a clutch". I'm certainly not the best heel and toe practitioner out there, consistently under-blipping and sometimes, not blipping at all. The bottom line is that I took a risk and realized a risk. I should have asked you guys who have already been down this road.

Mike is looking for something that will handle north of 600 WHP (in the vicinity of 800 bhp) but is streetable. In our discussion of options, he mirrored the concerns with pucks and will phone his contacts for recommendations. I will certainly suggest he contact Dwain.

Thanks again for the suggestions and info.
 

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Another option would be a Tilton multi disk. Very nice & very expensive
KENKG - go the tilton/assco route, the twin disc clutch they made for me at assco will hold 900whp. Its a 7.25" OT-II, 2plate Ultra High Ratio, G spring/modified pressure plate/custom release bearing with the aasco lwfw.

Trust me when I say, I looked into every avenue for clutches for a high hp project. If I had a lot more cash, I could have gone with a twin carbon/carbon setup but for the most part the only other way to get a single disc clutch to hold is with a puck and heavy pressure plate but its going to be off and on like a light switch.

Jordan at AASCO is who put it together for me. Just ask him about the twin disc that he just put together for Jesse Segovia to get more info.



I stole this picture from another site, but its a aasco/tilton metalic twin disc from a car with a m96
 
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