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:hilarious: :hilarious: Ha ha ha... reminds me of me on the release day at silverstone.... felt like such an incompetent driver!!! :eek:
 

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It just confirms what I already knew - PDK is nothing more than a quick-shifting Tiptronic slushbox.

For pure driving enjoyment, give me a manual and a clutch pedal.
 

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Kestrel Racing
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Surprise, surprise... they got the results they wanted!

I enjoy most of Jason Plato's reviews, and I like 5th Gear (almost as much as Top Gear :) ), but this "comparison" strikes me as an example of simply getting the results you wanted rather than anything really informative. He clearly was uncomfortable with the controls, and hadn't spent any real time or effort in learning them before he did "a quick one". Does anyone really think he pushed the PDK to the limit in an honest effort to determine which is faster? I believe in this instance, Mr. Plato simply got the result he wanted...

By the way, I'm not getting into the "which is better" debate [at least not in this thread ;) ), just making the observation that this comparison done by 5th gear doesn't really amount to much...
 

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Caymaniac
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Re: Surprise, surprise... they got the results they wanted!

His observation is that the controls are counter-intuitive. Porsche agrees, and they are moving to paddles like everyone else. I have no doubt that people can eventually adapt to unnatural controls...look at how car manufacturers send all cars with accidentally mispositioned steering wheels to the UK. Those irrepressible Brits make do.

If a human can learn to shift with his left hand, anything is possible.

(I have always wondered if cricket players are more likely to be ambidextrous. But they stopped letting small children drive in the 80s, so who knows.)
 

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He clearly wanted to find that the PDK was slower in the review, not to mention the fact that he was stumbling over the controls while driving. His only true complaint was that it was not intuitive to use, and did not give you the nice feedback. Can't say much about the feedback, other than raising the question, how did manually shifting suddenly give you all the feedback of the drive? In the spirit of full feedback, you should get rid of the power steering and the rest. If you really want to feel the feedback of the drive, get a Lotus, not a Porsche. As for the shifting, how can you say that the left- right+ shifting is more intuitive than the push+ pull- shifting? It is just something that people have got used to. Even a monkey could get used to something like that after a few hours of use...

If anybody really things that the PDK is just another slushbox, they really should go out and drive one with an open mind. It feels like the "double clutch sucks" mentality is coming from people who have generally drove manual transmission sport cars for a good portion of their lives, and are getting afraid that their tried and true "superior" technology is being outdated. Kind of like how muscle car owners are afraid of import cars.
 

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If anybody really things that the PDK is just another slushbox, they really should go out and drive one with an open mind.
+1, After 20 years of driving manuals on track I have to say the Cayman S with PDK is a ball to drive. I don't think I could shift it quicker. Of course it could be related to the fact that I am now in my 'retirement' years. :hilarious:
 

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If anybody really things that the PDK is just another slushbox, they really should go out and drive one with an open mind. It feels like the "double clutch sucks" mentality is coming from people who have generally drove manual transmission sport cars for a good portion of their lives, and are getting afraid that their tried and true "superior" technology is being outdated. Kind of like how muscle car owners are afraid of import cars.
I have driven a PDK 911, and I prefer the manual transmission by a mile. BTW, I don't think PDK sucks...in fact, it's a remarkable piece of machinery. But therein lies the problem...

If all you care about is going faster, then I suppose PDK would be seen as a performance enhancement, and maybe you'll love it for that purpose.

But I want to drive my car, not have the car drive me. Listen to what the guy in the video says about interacting with the car - PDK reduces that. I am against ANYTHING that reduces my interaction with the car. I want to push the pedal with my foot and I want to do it any damn time I want to. I want to rev the car up with my right foot any damn time I want to. I want to select any gear I want to, any time I want to (within reason). PDK, even in manual mode, does not permit any of that. It takes control away from you.

Can you heel and toe with PDK? No. Can you blip the throttle while you're downshifting to manually match revs? No. Those things are FUN! They make you WORK, which is FUN! That is what involvement is all about - it's about being one with the machine.

Making a sports car easier to drive is the worst thing you could possibly do to it. I do not like power steering or power brakes. I do not like power door locks, power windows or power mirrors. I live with these things because it's nearly impossible to buy a modern car without them.

But I tell you, my 1986 911 Carrera is GOBS more fun to drive than my 2007 911 Carrera S, despite the fact that the 997 performs better in every way. The '86 has no power brakes or power steering. If you want to maximize fun, focus on involvement, not performance.

Maybe my problem is I'm nowhere near retirement age. :) I might change my mind in another 20 years or so.
 

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Enjoying the drive.
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I agree that he obviously didn't spend any real time trying to learn the buttons. I had the buttons figured out in a couple of hours. It's not that tough. I think his time was slower because he wanted it to be **OR** he made mistakes while shifting (up instead of down or visa versa) and that effected his time.

Does PDK take away from the 'driving experience'? That's up to the individual driver. Personally, I like being able to just get in and driving without having to think about shift points, blipping the throttle, etc. every day on my way to and from work. I can still have some fun with the car and make it shift when and where I want to when I want to by using the buttons.

I bought my CS with the Tip because I drive 33 miles each way to work through many stop signs and lights and didn't feel like making over 200 shifts a day for over 180 days a year just to get to work and back. However, when I want to have some fun, I put it in 'manual' and still have fun. The best of both worlds IMO.
 

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I have driven a PDK 911, and I prefer the manual transmission by a mile. BTW, I don't think PDK sucks...in fact, it's a remarkable piece of machinery. But therein lies the problem...

If all you care about is going faster, then I suppose PDK would be seen as a performance enhancement, and maybe you'll love it for that purpose.

But I want to drive my car, not have the car drive me. Listen to what the guy in the video says about interacting with the car - PDK reduces that. I am against ANYTHING that reduces my interaction with the car. I want to push the pedal with my foot and I want to do it any damn time I want to. I want to rev the car up with my right foot any damn time I want to. I want to select any gear I want to, any time I want to (within reason). PDK, even in manual mode, does not permit any of that. It takes control away from you.

Can you heel and toe with PDK? No. Can you blip the throttle while you're downshifting to manually match revs? No. Those things are FUN! They make you WORK, which is FUN! That is what involvement is all about - it's about being one with the machine.

Making a sports car easier to drive is the worst thing you could possibly do to it. I do not like power steering or power brakes. I do not like power door locks, power windows or power mirrors. I live with these things because it's nearly impossible to buy a modern car without them.

But I tell you, my 1986 911 Carrera is GOBS more fun to drive than my 2007 911 Carrera S, despite the fact that the 997 performs better in every way. The '86 has no power brakes or power steering. If you want to maximize fun, focus on involvement, not performance.

Maybe my problem is I'm nowhere near retirement age. :) I might change my mind in another 20 years or so.
+1

The review is just another opinion,....but a valid one. I don't see anything in it that suggests the driver was trying to "make" PDK not perform equally as the manual. He was just mentioning (like many others) the difficulties he had with the buttons,.....or maybe the Porsche marketing team just hadn't sent him his PDK endorsement check yet.

I'm sure with a little practice he could easily make it perform as well as the manual. :hilarious:
 

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PDK vs 6MT again... let's agree to disagree, we all have our reasons for choosing transmissions & those reason vary. However if the main reason you chose PDK because you think it's a faster car in real life driving then the powers of marketing have done their work. :gossip:
 

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Dropped the car off for pre-tech for a DE and got a PDK boxster as a loaner. Felt that it was very sloopy, especially off the mark, when just in-town driving. It only came into its own when you stomped it, at which time it seemed pretty nice. However, I'm still a three-pedal kind of guy...
 

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Discussion Starter #14
I have driven a PDK 911, and I prefer the manual transmission by a mile. BTW, I don't think PDK sucks...in fact, it's a remarkable piece of machinery. But therein lies the problem...

If all you care about is going faster, then I suppose PDK would be seen as a performance enhancement, and maybe you'll love it for that purpose.

But I want to drive my car, not have the car drive me. Listen to what the guy in the video says about interacting with the car - PDK reduces that. I am against ANYTHING that reduces my interaction with the car. I want to push the pedal with my foot and I want to do it any damn time I want to. I want to rev the car up with my right foot any damn time I want to. I want to select any gear I want to, any time I want to (within reason). PDK, even in manual mode, does not permit any of that. It takes control away from you.

Can you heel and toe with PDK? No. Can you blip the throttle while you're downshifting to manually match revs? No. Those things are FUN! They make you WORK, which is FUN! That is what involvement is all about - it's about being one with the machine.

Making a sports car easier to drive is the worst thing you could possibly do to it. I do not like power steering or power brakes. I do not like power door locks, power windows or power mirrors. I live with these things because it's nearly impossible to buy a modern car without them.

But I tell you, my 1986 911 Carrera is GOBS more fun to drive than my 2007 911 Carrera S, despite the fact that the 997 performs better in every way. The '86 has no power brakes or power steering. If you want to maximize fun, focus on involvement, not performance.
Amen .
 

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ANoterh interesting "test" that is not valid. Obviously the
driver was "comfortable" on the manual and not so in the PDK.

I think it would take a while of steady driving teh PDK to get "comfortable" with it and then a much better test can be had. IMHO. Ed
 

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I have to agree with P-nut on this one. I have owned three other cars (Audi's) with DSG/S-tronic transmissions and while they are fun at first... the lack of involvement gets boring. It's all personal preference though and I have my own!:cheers:
 

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ANoterh interesting "test" that is not valid. Obviously the
driver was "comfortable" on the manual and not so in the PDK.

I think it would take a while of steady driving teh PDK to get "comfortable" with it and then a much better test can be had. IMHO. Ed
This I agree... In general so many test/reviews are done without becoming familiar with the car first. This can take some time. This was not a fair comparison between the two. PDK/Manual discussions have been going on for years in the Audi world. No right or wrong answer other than your personal preference... and as previously stated three dual clutch cars was enough for me... I'm manual going forward.
 

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the lack of involvement gets boring.
I agree that the involvement of shifting is satisfying. Probably more so than putting the PDK into sport and manual. But on track there is a certain amazement at how the sport plus mode works.

Getting used to it on track took maybe 2 laps.
 

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While there's no doubt that using a manual transmission properly on the street or track is about as engaged with an automobile as one can get, I still find the PDK to be an incredible piece of machinery, in both manual and automatic. Would I get one on another car? Quite possibly...

Here's my assessment from another thread (http://www.planet-9.com/cayman-boxster-chat/38920-flappy-paddles.html)

The interesting thing about all of this, is that the buttons/paddles, or whatever are entirely unnecessary...

I spent some serious quality time with a PDK this last Sunday - the second day of Las Vegas Region's last DE event of the season. We were running the very-fast 2.7 mile "perimeter" configuration at Spring Mountain. A friend with an '09 Carrera 2S equipped with PDK, Sport Chrono +, Sport PASM (and some other nice options like natural brown full leather, etc.) and shod with Yokohama Neova AD08s asked me to take his car out in the advanced group so he could see my lines on this configuration. The sessions are 30 minutes long, and I spent the first half of the session shifting manually - the car was great, we were keeping up with many cars on R-comps and slicks.

For the 2nd half of the session I put the car in full-automatic, and let the car choose the gears. During this, Joe (the car's owner) watched the gear selection indicator, and low and behold, the car chose exactly the same gears I did when I was shifting manually, in every instance. There was only one spot that having the PDK in full-auto was a problem, and it had to do with the configuration of the track more than anything else. In full auto, with SC+, the car only shifts when you reach red-line. There's one spot where you have a 2nd-gear right-hand hairpin. You then accelerate out of the turn, uphill for about 100 feet, and then there's what's called the "drop," a spot where the there's a large dip in the road. With a 6sp or the PDK in manual, you want to short shift before the drop, with the PDK in auto, you can't get to red-line before physically getting to the "drop," so I had to come out of the throttle, then back onto the throttle after the drop. Even with this anomaly, when we went and looked at the lap times (we were using a transponder) after the session, my lap times were 1, to 1.5 seconds faster with the PDK in full-auto. I attribute this to a couple of things - When manually shifting someone else's car, I rarely take the RPMs to red-line - it's just not nice... while the PDK in full auto, will only shift at 7300... also, I spent no time whatsoever thinking/worrying about what gear I was in - just throttle, brake and running the track. YMMV.
brad
 
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