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Ok I'm starting to get enough questions of "Hey are you trading your existing GT4 in on a new one?" that I thought I would pose the question to all of you about what would make the new 718 GT4 a success or failure.

While I am not planning to trade or buy one, here are some thoughts from my perspective about what would potentially make the car a "success" in my eyes.

1) Need to get the HP over 400, preferably up to 450 given that the GT3 is over 500 and just about anything with bragging rights these days talk about 500+
2) Needs to be faster around the track than a Tesla Model 3 Performance Sedan
3) Needs to keep the weight down, can they make the new GT4 weigh less than the old one? If they can, then that's a success, if they start talking about "minimal weight gain" then I'm scratching my head wondering why
4) 4L ? You know engine size in and of itself doesn't matter that much to me but a lot of people judge by size so it would be nice to get the 4.0L at least, but a properly tuned 3.8L would be just fine too.
5) Interior - Can we do something about those 718 cheese grater air vents please? The dash better be leather, there better be interior color bits and I better be able to have stitching on anything I want! :)
6) Colors - Can we get a unique color please? Something offered only for the GT4, like that peridot green for the Cayman R, except something different? I'd like to see one of those paints from the new Acura NSX line with the metallic sheen to them.
7) Ring Times - Personally I don't care as these have become essentially meaningless these days but I'm guessing we will see sub 7:30 and really ought to see sub 7:15
8 ) High Speed Braking - For the love of all that is holy can we PLEASE get a solution for the back end of the car getting squirrely under high speed braking (meaning 130+ mph and hammering on the brakes), the back end ping pongs back and forth so much as to make the car feel unstable.
9) Convenience features - Probably never happen, but keyless entry and other convenience features thrown in as opposed to yet more line items to drive up the cost of the car even further.
10) Cost - Even though I know Porsche isn't going to throw in items like adaptive headlights, etc. and we all know the base cost will go up the question is really how much. I'm guessing the base comes in just under 100K, maybe $99,300 but that would be for a stripper which no one orders, out the door price is more likely to be something in the $125k range I'm guessing for a decently equipped car.
11) Option pricing - Why hasn't the price of PCCB's come down? The technology is proven, economies of scale should have taken place, a lot more cars offer similar brakes, yet the option from Porsche is sky high still. Again I'd either like to see some option packs that make sense "track pack options" "convenience pack options" or a more reasonable option pricing structure. Total ala carte where everything is at a premium just rubs me the wrong way, I'd rather have a bundle and then a few ala carte items so I don't at least feel like I'm getting gouged at every turn.
12) Make it easier to add the factory roll cage option to US cars, in other words PUT THE DAMN MOUNTING POINTS IN! That was a ridiculous attempt at cost savings in the first GT4, really no excuse for not making the option to mount worldwide and then sell the cage wherever allowed by law. I get that the US "supposedly" doesn't allow it unless they crash test a car with it, which Porsche doesn't want to go to the expense of doing, but still there is no excuse for not having the mounting points already there as the cost savings on that is truly minimal.
13) Better information on adjusting the sway bars and aero elements, seemed like a lot of trial and error guess work on the first GT4. It would be better to have a set of recommended settings for different purposes. Autocross? Set A, Track HPDE? Set B, High Speed runs? Set C, etc. Sure you could still tweak them, but why not make it easier to get a sound "base" point to launch from for each performance envelope type.
14) Track Precision App should be integrated into the car then dump the results to memory card or phone. After awhile I gave up on it and used the app that came with my Garmin VIRB XE camera to produce track videos as the Track Precision app simply failed 9 times out of 10. Someone has to be able to do better at Porsche than what this thing turned out to be. Take a clue from Tesla and have ANY track that someone drives on be able to be uploaded and shared with all other drivers, not just a select few tracks that Porsche happened to visit in their own back yard.
15) Battery Tender - Can we get some sort of plug or maybe a pass through point to enable installing a battery tender on the car's battery easier please? I'm always having to leave the battery cover plastic loose somewhere to fish cords through and no I don't want to use one that goes in the lighter socket where I have to leave the window cracked open either. Porsche either needs to fix their high battery drain problem or they need to come to terms with plugging the car in whenever it is going to sit for awhile and make that process easier.

Ok that's what I've got that comes to mind, I'm sure I've probably missed a few things but will see what the rest of you come up with...
 

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Nice list! Heard you were under the weather for a while but glad to have you back. I’ve got deposits in to trade my 16 Spyder for the new one but it will need to be a significant upgrade for me to do it. My personal preference is that I like the lines of the 16 better than what I’ve seen of the new one so far, especially from the rear. Same is true for the new 911, not crazy about the rear end design vs the 991.2.
 

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Seems certain now that it will be NA 6 with a power/tq bump so I expect it will be a big success in that they will sell them all and some (many?) buyers will pay ADM. Lots of things I can think of to improve over the 981, some that PAG would not do. The 2 main items I'd want are fixing the 3rd gear failure issue- surely that will be addressed. Also giving the suspension enough basic adjustability for most track users- especially the rear toe control arms. PDK option would be good.
 

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Great list. Agreed on the interior. I like the exterior quite a lot. I know a lot of people are not in that camp. I am interested in doing a Euro delivery so that's what has got my interest peaked. If it's around 425-430 hp that will work for me. If it has a PDK I would love it even more though I can also agree with folks who think in a Spyder a PDK just will not be good. Agree we need more colors.

And that rear ping pong issue that happened to me too but once. I got a proper suspension tune done on my Spyder and that got ironed out. I hope the GT4 and Spyder both get the same exact mechanical hardware this time around. I think overall the handling is gonna get better for sure. I have yet to hear of a newer Porsche handle worse than the older version it's replacing!
 

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No matter what the next GT4 looks/performs like, they'll sell every one they build. Whether it's a significant enough improvement over the 981 version to cause current owners to upgrade is a big question. Getting much of a HP and performance bump while staying NA at a price point that doesn't start nudging Carrera S territory is going to be difficult. A turbo 4, on the other hand, could be dialled up to 450hp easily, and with the mountains of torque it provides at low revs could take the GT4 into a new performance league as both a street and track car.

I know - most people here think a turbo 4 GT4 is both unlikely AND a sacrilege. I think a NA or 3.8 718 GT4 would be interesting; a turbo 4 version could actually be a better performance/track car. If I had a 981 GT4, a turbo 4 that kicks my current car's butt would be more interesting than a mildly improved vehicle with a NA six. But then as much as I like flat-6s, I don't have a bias against the flat four or turbos.
 

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No matter what the next GT4 looks/performs like, they'll sell every one they build. Whether it's a significant enough improvement over the 981 version to cause current owners to upgrade is a big question. Getting much of a HP and performance bump while staying NA at a price point that doesn't start nudging Carrera S territory is going to be difficult. A turbo 4, on the other hand, could be dialled up to 450hp easily, and with the mountains of torque it provides at low revs could take the 4G into a new performance league as both a street and track car.

I know - most people here think a turbo 4 GT4 is both unlikely AND a sacrilege. I think a NA or 3.8 718 GT4 would be interesting; a turbo 4 version could actually be a better performance/track car. If I had a 981 GT4, a turbo 4 that kicks my current car's butt would be more interesting than a mildly improved vehicle with a NA six. But then as much as I like flat-6s, I don't have a bias against the flat four or turbos.
I use to have a competition license and over the years competed in numerous SCCA races. When I was racing, I wanted all the HP that the rules permitted. That's not the case in DE events. In the case of DEs I compete against myself. I just try to go a little faster each time. So even if a PDK turbo 4 is faster than MT NA 6, I still prefer the later. Just a personal preference I developed over the decades.

My guess is that the GT4 will have around 420 HP and be priced lower than a 991S, in the $100K - $110K range. And I agree that Porsche will quickly sell every one they build.
 

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The following are just my thoughts and responses, nothing aimed at K-Man and likely a bit different slant because I want a Spyder not the GT4, but some of this still applies.

Oh, and FWIW I am not looking at the Supra...

Ok I'm starting to get enough questions of "Hey are you trading your existing GT4 in on a new one?" that I thought I would pose the question to all of you about what would make the new 718 GT4 a success or failure.

While I am not planning to trade or buy one, here are some thoughts from my perspective about what would potentially make the car a "success" in my eyes.

1) Need to get the HP over 400, preferably up to 450 given that the GT3 is over 500 and just about anything with bragging rights these days talk about 500+
IMHO it will be 400+HP for bragging rights you need to buy the GT3
2) Needs to be faster around the track than a Tesla Model 3 Performance Sedan
No comment here, I know you love Tesla, but this is to me apple and oranges, fast is not everything!
3) Needs to keep the weight down, can they make the new GT4 weigh less than the old one? If they can, then that's a success, if they start talking about "minimal weight gain" then I'm scratching my head wondering why
Considering all that they put into these cars, street versions are bound to get heavier, for lightness buy a race car... ;)
4) 4L ? You know engine size in and of itself doesn't matter that much to me but a lot of people judge by size so it would be nice to get the 4.0L at least, but a properly tuned 3.8L would be just fine too.
For manufacturing reasons, likely a 4.0l, easy HP bump without stressing a warrantied engine
5) Interior - Can we do something about those 718 cheese grater air vents please? The dash better be leather, there better be interior color bits and I better be able to have stitching on anything I want! :)
I hate the 'graters' too, leather should be an option
6) Colors - Can we get a unique color please? Something offered only for the GT4, like that peridot green for the Cayman R, except something different? I'd like to see one of those paints from the new Acura NSX line with the metallic sheen to them.
Probably one of the toughest choices to make especially for the stock availability, for those with deep pockets there is always PTS
7) Ring Times - Personally I don't care as these have become essentially meaningless these days but I'm guessing we will see sub 7:30 and really ought to see sub 7:15
I don't care either about this and I think that if it is really important then get that GT3 or buy the Cayman ClubSport
8 ) High Speed Braking - For the love of all that is holy can we PLEASE get a solution for the back end of the car getting squirrely under high speed braking (meaning 130+ mph and hammering on the brakes), the back end ping pongs back and forth so much as to make the car feel unstable.
9) Convenience features - Probably never happen, but keyless entry and other convenience features thrown in as opposed to yet more line items to drive up the cost of the car even further.
Kind of contradicts the reason for these cars, driving machines, not touring cars, but your point is valid
10) Cost - Even though I know Porsche isn't going to throw in items like adaptive headlights, etc. and we all know the base cost will go up the question is really how much. I'm guessing the base comes in just under 100K, maybe $99,300 but that would be for a stripper which no one orders, out the door price is more likely to be something in the $125k range I'm guessing for a decently equipped car.
Why? Because the can a do get away with their pricing model, to a certain extent owning a Porsche means you drank the Kool-Aid and liked it! :beer:
11) Option pricing - Why hasn't the price of PCCB's come down? The technology is proven, economies of scale should have taken place, a lot more cars offer similar brakes, yet the option from Porsche is sky high still. Again I'd either like to see some option packs that make sense "track pack options" "convenience pack options" or a more reasonable option pricing structure. Total ala carte where everything is at a premium just rubs me the wrong way, I'd rather have a bundle and then a few ala carte items so I don't at least feel like I'm getting gouged at every turn.
See above answer, and I still agree...
12) Make it easier to add the factory roll cage option to US cars, in other words PUT THE DAMN MOUNTING POINTS IN! That was a ridiculous attempt at cost savings in the first GT4, really no excuse for not making the option to mount worldwide and then sell the cage wherever allowed by law. I get that the US "supposedly" doesn't allow it unless they crash test a car with it, which Porsche doesn't want to go to the expense of doing, but still there is no excuse for not having the mounting points already there as the cost savings on that is truly minimal.
More specific to the GT4, but if a person is this serious then a spec racer or true race car seems a better way to go, but if they can add the mount points, why not
13) Better information on adjusting the sway bars and aero elements, seemed like a lot of trial and error guess work on the first GT4. It would be better to have a set of recommended settings for different purposes. Autocross? Set A, Track HPDE? Set B, High Speed runs? Set C, etc. Sure you could still tweak them, but why not make it easier to get a sound "base" point to launch from for each performance envelope type.
14) Track Precision App should be integrated into the car then dump the results to memory card or phone. After awhile I gave up on it and used the app that came with my Garmin VIRB XE camera to produce track videos as the Track Precision app simply failed 9 times out of 10. Someone has to be able to do better at Porsche than what this thing turned out to be. Take a clue from Tesla and have ANY track that someone drives on be able to be uploaded and shared with all other drivers, not just a select few tracks that Porsche happened to visit in their own back yard.
Porsche and their apps :rolleyes:, PCM, Navigation, Car Play and Android Auto, it would seem even they drank the Kool-Aid here, maybe full strength!
15) Battery Tender - Can we get some sort of plug or maybe a pass through point to enable installing a battery tender on the car's battery easier please? I'm always having to leave the battery cover plastic loose somewhere to fish cords through and no I don't want to use one that goes in the lighter socket where I have to leave the window cracked open either. Porsche either needs to fix their high battery drain problem or they need to come to terms with plugging the car in whenever it is going to sit for awhile and make that process easier.
Agreed, I plug my car in every night, a small external port for the battery tender would be most welcomed, I was thinking behind the gas filler door

Ok that's what I've got that comes to mind, I'm sure I've probably missed a few things but will see what the rest of you come up with...
 

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If Porsche is gonna ask for 125k for a Spyder/GT4 to me they are smoking crack. I would rather get a 2017/2016 AMG GTS or an Aston Martin V12 Vantage S for that price!!!
 

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If Porsche is gonna ask for 125k for a Spyder/GT4 to me they are smoking crack. I would rather get a 2017/2016 AMG GTS or an Aston Martin V12 Vantage S for that price!!!
digital, you obviously haven't been drinking your Kool-Aid... :hilarious:
 

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No matter what, the 718GT4 will be a "success", if you define that as everyone will be sold, probably at MSRP, if not more.

....and that's how Porsche defines it. :drivingskid:
 

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I will wait for it to come out before I make any decision on the new car. My GT4 has minimal mileage on it so I will probably keep it and pass it on to one of my sons.
 

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No matter what, the 718GT4 will be a "success", if you define that as everyone will be sold, probably at MSRP, if not more.

....and that's how Porsche defines it. :drivingskid:
If they build it as I suspect, the demand will be very strong. The Sales Manager at my local dealer told me that he regularly gets calls about GT4 specs and price.
 

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And yeah no matter what the GT4/Spyder next generation cars will be an absolute success. I can't recall the last time in recent history of Porsche when any car they made didn't sell like crazy. People grumbled from air cooled to water cooled. They grumbled from nat asp to turbos. The 718 GT4/Spyder will be no exception.
 

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I can't recall the last time in recent history of Porsche when any car they made didn't sell like crazy. .
I can. Go here http://carsalesbase.com/us-car-sales-data/porsche/porsche-boxster/ Make sure you are looking at Boxsters for the US by year. Since 2013 the number of Boxsters sold in the US has steadily declined being ~45% of its 2013 glory. That's not selling like crazy. Less than half of sales is depressing.

The Cayman has never recovered from its glory years of 2006/2007 Porsche Cayman US car sales figures but I wouldn't expect them too because of the pent up demand. The same is true in that the GT4 certainly boosted sales for a couple of years but the 718, 2017 and 2018, has not touched the 981 years. Its all a decline. Part of that is probably the overall decline in sports car ownership.

Just saying ... OTH, Panny sales have DOUBLED.
 

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Yeah good point. I really hope they keep making them even in the future because to my eyes the Cayman and the Boxster are the better looking machines. The 911 only in my eyes looks good in a GT3 format :D
 

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I can. Go here http://carsalesbase.com/us-car-sales-data/porsche/porsche-boxster/ Make sure you are looking at Boxsters for the US by year. Since 2013 the number of Boxsters sold in the US has steadily declined being ~45% of its 2013 glory. That's not selling like crazy. Less than half of sales is depressing.

The Cayman has never recovered from its glory years of 2006/2007 Porsche Cayman US car sales figures but I wouldn't expect them too because of the pent up demand. The same is true in that the GT4 certainly boosted sales for a couple of years but the 718, 2017 and 2018, has not touched the 981 years. Its all a decline. Part of that is probably the overall decline in sports car ownership.

Just saying ... OTH, Panny sales have DOUBLED.
That is interesting, see my comments in the image below, surprising, I guess that Porsche can get away with 'sports car' sales like this if the Macan and others pay the bills?

 

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I can. Go here http://carsalesbase.com/us-car-sales-data/porsche/porsche-boxster/ Make sure you are looking at Boxsters for the US by year. Since 2013 the number of Boxsters sold in the US has steadily declined being ~45% of its 2013 glory. That's not selling like crazy. Less than half of sales is depressing.

The Cayman has never recovered from its glory years of 2006/2007 Porsche Cayman US car sales figures but I wouldn't expect them too because of the pent up demand. The same is true in that the GT4 certainly boosted sales for a couple of years but the 718, 2017 and 2018, has not touched the 981 years. Its all a decline. Part of that is probably the overall decline in sports car ownership.

Just saying ... OTH, Panny sales have DOUBLED.
Increase the price of gas in the States will assist in sales of all smaller cars. My wish is for a total ban on all SUVs and pickup trucks throughout North America. If you genuinely need a pickup that is work related then those drivers and only those drivers can get a pickup.
 

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Increase the price of gas in the States will assist in sales of all smaller cars. My wish is for a total ban on all SUVs and pickup trucks throughout North America. If you genuinely need a pickup that is work related then those drivers and only those drivers can get a pickup.
That kind of talk will get you strung up in my area. :) Buyers, especially women, love SUVs. I believe they are attracted to the practicality and perceived safety offered by SUVs. There's no doubt that millenials don't have the love of sports cars which earlier generations had.
 
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