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I am really happy I do not have to buy a 911 to stay with the 6 cylinder motor, do not get me wrong the 4 with the the turbo is really fast, my last track day I was trying to keep up with 718 S in my old 987.2 S, I was getting taken in the long straight away but would catch up to passing later on the course, I was really surprised of what Porsche was able to do with the 4 cylinder, but I am thinking of getting a new Cayman S and was thinking I might get a 911 T instead only because of the 6 cylinder, I am very happy if I buy a new Cayman I have the choice of the 6 cylinder, I prefer the mid engine of the Cayman, I hope big sales of the GTS and GT3 will keep a 6 cylinder option alive.
 

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I’ve done the 2nd and thinking about the 1st but probably won’t because 911’s cost too much
I'm told that 718 GT4 and Spyder builds are coming in at my local dealer within a few thousand dollars of my moderately optioned 992 C4. If one doesn't go crazy on options, 992s aren't outlandishly pricey. Trouble is, most 911 buyers spec all manner of expensive, unnecessary cosmetic options. I think a base 992 9(C2 or C4) is a viable option to a 718 GTS, Spyder or even a GTS 4.0. For what - 15% to 30% more - you get the newest, greatest 911, rather than the last versions of the soon-to-be-replaced 982.
 

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I'm told that 718 GT4 and Spyder builds are coming in at my local dealer within a few thousand dollars of my moderately optioned 992 C4. If one doesn't go crazy on options, 992s aren't outlandishly pricey. Trouble is, most 911 buyers spec all manner of expensive, unnecessary cosmetic options. I think a base 992 9(C2 or C4) is a viable option to a 718 GTS, Spyder or even a GTS 4.0. For what - 15% to 30% more - you get the newest, greatest 911, rather than the last versions of the soon-to-be-replaced 982.
And for all the reasons you mention, 992s will outsell the "old school" manual, naturally aspirated 2 seater open top 400hp future classic. I'm just grateful Porsche decided to build it alongside the latest greatest 911. In that way I can have the option of a more modern version of my fabulous RS60 Spyder with full leather interior and a power roof, you can have your far better more rounded modern car and we'll both be happy :)


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I'm told that 718 GT4 and Spyder builds are coming in at my local dealer within a few thousand dollars of my moderately optioned 992 C4. If one doesn't go crazy on options, 992s aren't outlandishly pricey. Trouble is, most 911 buyers spec all manner of expensive, unnecessary cosmetic options. I think a base 992 9(C2 or C4) is a viable option to a 718 GTS, Spyder or even a GTS 4.0. For what - 15% to 30% more - you get the newest, greatest 911, rather than the last versions of the soon-to-be-replaced 982.
You know, I after I built a few Spyders and saw the final tally, I thought, sheesh I better check out what a 992 would come out like at given these numbers... I have driven a few 991's and was at the dealership for the 992 launch, I like the car, its styling including the interior and overall presence but still feel more at home in the mid-engine car with is overall size and feel. Sure I wish that all of the modern aspects of new 992 were implemented into the new Spyder but they are not, possibly because that is not Porsches goal or maybe it is to keep the keep the Gt4 and Spyder more basic to appeal to that purist side of the market.

In the end I would need to add that 15%-30% extra over the Spyder on a 992 to have the car I seek today, for me just a little bit more than I am willing to spend. No the Spyder is where I want to be right now, in the future, who knows, but I would be very surprised that the replacement for the 982 is anything like what we have today, more likely a shared platform with VAG offerings which for me would loose its unique place in the Porsche narrative.
 

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Discussion Starter #65
The Porsche website for Great Britain shows the base price for the Cayman as 64,008 pounds and for the Boxster as 65,949 pounds. At current exchange rates, that translates to $83,314 and $85,734 respectively.
 

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You know, I after I built a few Spyders and saw the final tally, I thought, sheesh I better check out what a 992 would come out like at given these numbers... I have driven a few 991's and was at the dealership for the 992 launch, I like the car, its styling including the interior and overall presence but still feel more at home in the mid-engine car with is overall size and feel. Sure I wish that all of the modern aspects of new 992 were implemented into the new Spyder but they are not, possibly because that is not Porsches goal or maybe it is to keep the keep the Gt4 and Spyder more basic to appeal to that purist side of the market.

In the end I would need to add that 15%-30% extra over the Spyder on a 992 to have the car I seek today, for me just a little bit more than I am willing to spend. No the Spyder is where I want to be right now, in the future, who knows, but I would be very surprised that the replacement for the 982 is anything like what we have today, more likely a shared platform with VAG offerings which for me would loose its unique place in the Porsche narrative.
Also looked at a 992 Carrera base with all the same options as my GTS and the price wasn’t much more in the grand scheme of things - $113k as opposed to $97k MSRP. However, the trade in prices being offered for the 718GTS are abysmal. Oh well, just have to wait out some CPO availability in a year is so.


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The new format of this website sucks. I barely come here anymore. The format is difficult to read and all the advertisements beat you over the head. It's pretty upsetting TBH.

It'll be funny when the day comes that Porsche shoves a 2 cylinder twin charged engine into a Cayman and then all the "progressive" Porsche fans will try to convince everyone they're better than the 4 bangers :p

There's definitely some overlap buyers, but honest I wouldn't consider a 992 over a new 6 cylinder Cayman. The 911 has gotten so large and bloated. Even makes the 928 look like a small car. I prefer lighter more connected cars. Needing AWD or a rear seat is one thing, but the 992 is so much a GT car (i.e. grand touring) these days while the Cayman carries the pure sports car torch*

*GTx 911 models non-withstanding
 

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I think the 2.5L GTS is a brilliant car, as are the 718 Spyder and GT4. It remains to be seen whether the 4.0 GTS is something special or merely a recreation of the 981 GTS to call out the T4 haters to put up AND shut up.
[/QUOTE]

‘great comment here, the T4 IS a brilliant car. Lots of criticism about sound but you can’t argue with performance. I’m not sure how true it is but I’ve read that the base 718 has better performance numbers than the previous models NA6 "S" model. I drove both and felt the T4 just felt better in regards to power delivery. if you are reluctant to (or regret) purchasing a T4 you may have read too many "purist" comments related to how much better the 6 cylinder sounds. A true sports car is a culmination of many things and although I wouldn’t purchase a Tesla I feel that performance ranks higher than cylinder count and sound.
 

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It's easy to use "sound" as a proxy for everything that's wrong with the move to the T4 engine, but like any straw man argument, it's also a fallacy.

At the end of the day, nobody (outside China, at least) asked for it. There are many good reasons for that, not just "sound."
 

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It's easy to use "sound" as a proxy for everything that's wrong with the move to the T4 engine, but like any straw man argument, it's also a fallacy.

At the end of the day, nobody (outside China, at least) asked for it. There are many good reasons for that, not just "sound."
I think you should really tell us more about the fallacy. And do you own one or have you driven one for more than 10 minutes?
Inquiring minds want to know
 

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I'm told that 718 GT4 and Spyder builds are coming in at my local dealer within a few thousand dollars of my moderately optioned 992 C4. If one doesn't go crazy on options, 992s aren't outlandishly pricey. Trouble is, most 911 buyers spec all manner of expensive, unnecessary cosmetic options. I think a base 992 9(C2 or C4) is a viable option to a 718 GTS, Spyder or even a GTS 4.0. For what - 15% to 30% more - you get the newest, greatest 911, rather than the last versions of the soon-to-be-replaced 982.
To me 15-30% on a +100k car is a pretty big number; that's $20-30k. Many can't afford that extra amount. I could afford it but won't spend it because it's just not worth it to my wallet. You really have to want the newest, greatest version to come up with that much more money. If you wait for the 983 it's still and always going to be 15-30% more for Carrera vs. a Boxster/Cayman. It doesn't matter if it is the first year or fifth year of that version; the different remains the same.
 

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Regarding the T4 cars, the reality is the 718 S handles as well as a 981 Spyder. The 981 Spyder, as the 987.2 did, served as a sneak peak of how the next car would handle. I'm not a fan of how the turbo 4s sound, but if you're driving it right it's at least a very effective engine. A 718S is really just a different 981 Spyder, the GTS having more oomph.

As for 718 Spyder pricing, yes, it ain't cheap. I've said the main reason I have no interest in one is the "step up" cost is real (~$40-45K). The car alone is quite a bit pricier. My Spyder (without the seats I wanted, because stop order) rang up at ~$105K including several special requests to Porsche Exclusive (1 of 1s), and that includes a $1000 discount ("sorry about the seats" apology), sales tax and a comprehensive third-party XPel Ultimate install. For a 718 Spyder it'd be ~$135K, including the seats and the Burmester system over the Bose (Bose is fine, Burmester just better).

... for a car that eventually won't be any better. As stuff wears out, any better 718 GT4 parts go on where possible. Suspension gets incrementally upgraded, including beyond what the factory offers. Eventually I'll end up at the same/better place (especially when X53 conversion happens), just having spent $40K NOW to get a bit further ahead earlier.

Ain't worth it! Why I say if you bought a 981 Spyder/GT4 as a forever car, keep it. As stuff wears out, use the nicer bits. One of the best parts of owning a Porsche is being able to dig into the parts bin over time for great upgrades! For T4 owners, if sound is an issue, here's a chance to change that. If it's not, enjoy your car, because the chassis/suspension is damn good.
 

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I'm trying to put myself in the shoes of a 2.5T GTS owner, and how the 4.0 announcement would sit. Before ordering a 992 C4 we came VERY close to buying a 2019 Boxster GTS, and almost certainly would have had it been a 6-speed rather than PDK car. We knew that the Spyder was available and could have received an allocation, and were well aware of the 4.0 rumours. The one thing that tipped the balance in the C4's favour was AWD, as the car will be a 365 DD. If the GTS had been manual, we would have given up AWD as both my wife and I felt the Boxster GTS was THE MOST connected, visceral and balanced car we had ever driven (46 sports cars and counting, BTW). We talked extensively about whether we'd prefer a flat six, and we both came to the conclusion that if we bought the GTS 2.5L we would stop listening to Internet noise about the bad sound (ridiculous in our view; the car sounds different but awesome), and settle into a long ownership knowing we made the choice because we loved the overall dynamics of the car, and thought reverting to a likely slower (in street situations), torque-deprived flat 6 NA of any description was a step backward.

If that Boxster GTS was in our parking spot now, I wouldn't be lusting after a 4.0 in any way. In fact, I'd feel just a bit smug that with so few GTS 2.5s sold, it's now going to be a VERY rare car. Over on Rennlist the question was posed that if 5 years from now you could buy identically-equipped GTSs, one a 2.5T and one a 4.0 at the same price, which would you choose. Stupid question: they WON"T be the same price, thanks (no really...thanks) to the incessant bashing of the 2.5T here and elsewhere and the herd-mentality-driven devotion to the outdated notion that the only REAL Porsches have NA flat sixes. Total and complete bollocks. For those that don't like the sound...fine, you have a choice now, move on and stop the bleating and whining. For 2.5T (and 2.0T) owners, don't second-guess your choice. Your cars are thoroughly modern, unbelievable capable, well-engineered masterpieces of German engineering. Will there be an extra depreciation hit because off the 4.0? Maybe, but if so it will be relatively inconsequential and likely short-lived...and it's not beyond the realm of possibility that in the case of the GTS, the smart money will eventually be on the 2.5Ts.

Would I buy a 2.5T GTS over a 4.0 car? You bet. In a heartbeat. The 4.0 GTS IMO is an outdated anachronism (not in the same league as the 718 Spyder or GT4 which are truly special cars), opportunistically pushed into the marketplace by Porsche because they have reasonable expectations that they can sell a bunch of them for whatever price they ask to a handful of "purists" who wish time had stopped in 2016. OK....you got your way. Now go buy the damn things and leave 4-pot turbo owners to enjoy their marvellous cars in peace.
Great response well said 4.0 is non turbo and not as tuneable.


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