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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
First, the story. I took my Cayman to the "Ringmeisters prime" trackday on the Nurburgring, an event which is all about good lapping and low numbers of cars. It might be the most expensive trackday in the world, but it's pretty good insurance as it lowers the risk of fluid spills and coming across people who should not really be driving cars never mind being on a racetrack.

My only real concern beforehand was the level of noise that my car makes with its race headers. No issue here in Russia because nobody gives a damn, but Europe is a little different. At least the dB limit in this case was a rather generous 130 dB pass-by reading. Sure enough though, after doing my first 2 laps on day 1 I was pulled over by ze Germans and told my day was finished as I had broken the noise limit four times in two laps. Which is apparently the max amount of times before you get thrown off the track. Interesting logic to count the two measuring points separately, surely anyone who is genuinely too loud (as I was with 135+ dB) is just going to set them all off anyway. This rule also seemed to have been made with "tourist drives" in mind where you can not do more than one lap. As this was a trackday you could go on for as many laps as your fuel tank and concentration level would allow. I protested that this was the first anyone had told me about this, and that I could "fix" my car to make it less loud, but to no avail. The Nurburgring guy said the head office in Berlin would fine them 60K Euros if they let anyone back on track and break the limit for a fifth time. I got no answer when I inquired what would have happened then if I had done three or four laps instead of just the two. Anyway, I talked to the organizer and he promised he'd try to work it out if I could quieten my car down enough that there was no risk at all of setting off any more alarms. So we got out the metal wire and physically forced the PSE valves to stay shut. The difference in sound was certainly huge (video at the end) and after being warned that my 2 day, multi-thousand dollar track event would be over if I broke it one more time, they stuck on some new numbers and a different transponder and I was good to go. The two hours or so that I lost we'll count as a valuable experience.

The difference in performance was barely noticeable, but real on the GPS log and dyno (10 horsepower) so that didn't really help. I wasn't sure what to expect beforehand in terms of lap time, I certainly hoped to go below 7:45 min "BTG" (which excludes most of the long straight which cannot be done full throttle in the regular driving sessions which are open to the public) as the fastest non-GT 981 I could find on youtube had done a 7:44. Even the GT4s didn't really seem to go much below 7:35 to 7:30 in the hands of mortals, so I reckoned that would've been a bridge too far. In the end though, I felt the car and I could have done a 7:30 or just under if I wouldn't have lost the performance to the noise regs and found a clear lap in the morning when it wasn't so hot outside. Cup 2's really don't like it warm. In the least optimal track conditions of the event I did a 7:36 which I measured pretty accurately to correspond to a 7:57 lap the way Porsche and other manufacturers would count it. All optimal sectors combined was 5s less still. While my car is decidedly faster than stock, it's pretty impossible to replicate conditions as ideal as the manufacturers have it anyway. Brand new tires, perfect alignment, racing drivers who don't need to worry too much about sticking it in the barriers, ... as a result nobody has ever come particularly close to the time their car set "officially". A .2 GT3 RS, for example, should be able to lap in less than 6:40 BTG but thus far even cracking 7 minutes BTG is proving to require a lot of talent and practice. So to be 3 seconds off Porsche's official time with a slightly modded car on pretty old Cup 2's the first time I've driven this car there seems reasonable enough.

My x73 car is certainly a different animal from anything else I've driven there. Most of my laps I did a decade ago in a heavily modified front wheel drive Volvo. Then after a 5 year gap I went back and drove my all-wheel-drive nose heavy RS4 there. The Cayman is a joy to drive compared to both of those, allowing me to stay flat out through corners that were never remotely flat in my other cars. But it feels pretty nervous, borderline unstable in some places where I had to stay away from kerbs that I've always driven over before. I took out a guy for a passenger lap who drives one of the most popular (and really quick) "ring tool" FWD cars and he couldn't believe how unstable my car felt compared to his. I'm pretty comfortable with a car that moves around a little even at high speed but a GT4 and certainly a 911 with its multi link rear suspension seems like it would be a lot easier and more confidence inspiring on this track.

In the end, I'm happy with the driving I did, and happy to have called it quits while I was ahead so I could drive the car home.


Lifting a front wheel here, didn't expect to see that. But it's a banked corner where it's probably pulling 1.5-1.6G. Makes even X73 look soft.

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I believe there is a cresting hill right before that last shot, but it has been a while since I was actually there. That looks like an incredible couple of days and an awesome event, I am very jealous!
 

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Those photos are phenomenal! Great post! Nice driving. To get my facts straight as I felt like I kept reading your post wrong, but your passenger said he couldn't believe how 'unstable' your car felt in comparison with his?

First, the story. I took my Cayman to the "Ringmeisters prime" trackday on the Nurburgring, an event which is all about good lapping and low numbers of cars. It might be the most expensive trackday in the world, but it's pretty good insurance as it lowers the risk of fluid spills and coming across people who should not really be driving cars never mind being on a racetrack.

My only real concern beforehand was the level of noise that my car makes with its race headers. No issue here in Russia because nobody gives a damn, but Europe is a little different. At least the dB limit in this case was a rather generous 130 dB pass-by reading. Sure enough though, after doing my first 2 laps on day 1 I was pulled over by ze Germans and told my day was finished as I had broken the noise limit four times in two laps. Which is apparently the max amount of times before you get thrown off the track. Interesting logic to count the two measuring points separately, surely anyone who is genuinely too loud (as I was with 135+ dB) is just going to set them all off anyway. This rule also seemed to have been made with "tourist drives" in mind where you can not do more than one lap. As this was a trackday you could go on for as many laps as your fuel tank and concentration level would allow. I protested that this was the first anyone had told me about this, and that I could "fix" my car to make it less loud, but to no avail. The Nurburgring guy said the head office in Berlin would fine them 60K Euros if they let anyone back on track and break the limit for a fifth time. I got no answer when I inquired what would have happened then if I had done three or four laps instead of just the two. Anyway, I talked to the organizer and he promised he'd try to work it out if I could quieten my car down enough that there was no risk at all of setting off any more alarms. So we got out the metal wire and physically forced the PSE valves to stay shut. The difference in sound was certainly huge (video at the end) and after being warned that my 2 day, multi-thousand dollar track event would be over if I broke it one more time, they stuck on some new numbers and a different transponder and I was good to go. The two hours or so that I lost we'll count as a valuable experience.

The difference in performance was barely noticeable, but real on the GPS log and dyno (10 horsepower) so that didn't really help. I wasn't sure what to expect beforehand in terms of lap time, I certainly hoped to go below 7:45 min "BTG" (which excludes most of the long straight which cannot be done full throttle in the regular driving sessions which are open to the public) as the fastest non-GT 981 I could find on youtube had done a 7:44. Even the GT4s didn't really seem to go much below 7:35 to 7:30 in the hands of mortals, so I reckoned that would've been a bridge too far. In the end though, I felt the car and I could have done a 7:30 or just under if I wouldn't have lost the performance to the noise regs and found a clear lap in the morning when it wasn't so hot outside. Cup 2's really don't like it warm. In the least optimal track conditions of the event I did a 7:36 which I measured pretty accurately to correspond to a 7:57 lap the way Porsche and other manufacturers would count it. All optimal sectors combined was 5s less still. While my car is decidedly faster than stock, it's pretty impossible to replicate conditions as ideal as the manufacturers have it anyway. Brand new tires, perfect alignment, racing drivers who don't need to worry too much about sticking it in the barriers, ... as a result nobody has ever come particularly close to the time their car set "officially". A .2 GT3 RS, for example, should be able to lap in less than 6:40 BTG but thus far even cracking 7 minutes BTG is proving to require a lot of talent and practice. So to be 3 seconds off Porsche's official time with a slightly modded car on pretty old Cup 2's the first time I've driven this car there seems reasonable enough.

My x73 car is certainly a different animal from anything else I've driven there. Most of my laps I did a decade ago in a heavily modified front wheel drive Volvo. Then after a 5 year gap I went back and drove my all-wheel-drive nose heavy RS4 there. The Cayman is a joy to drive compared to both of those, allowing me to stay flat out through corners that were never remotely flat in my other cars. But it feels pretty nervous, borderline unstable in some places where I had to stay away from kerbs that I've always driven over before. I took out a guy for a passenger lap who drives one of the most popular (and really quick) "ring tool" FWD cars and he couldn't believe how unstable my car felt compared to his. I'm pretty comfortable with a car that moves around a little even at high speed but a GT4 and certainly a 911 with its multi link rear suspension seems like it would be a lot easier and more confidence inspiring on this track.

In the end, I'm happy with the driving I did, and happy to have called it quits while I was ahead so I could drive the car home.


Lifting a front wheel here, didn't expect to see that. But it's a banked corner where it's probably pulling 1.5-1.6G. Makes even X73 look soft.

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Discussion Starter #6
I believe there is a cresting hill right before that last shot, but it has been a while since I was actually there.
6:37 in the video is when I go over this drop, which is quite impressive in real life but doesn't translate that well on video. If you're going sufficiently quick you need to brake a little before, make sure you're completely off the brakes during the drop and then get on them again as you land before the 85 mph entry to the right hand turn. In this case approach was about 120, and 105 through the air bit.

To get my facts straight as I felt like I kept reading your post wrong, but your passenger said he couldn't believe how 'unstable' your car felt in comparison with his?
Right - sorry.
 

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The drop further on after the double right your about to hit in you photo is even worse as your turning left and the rear becomes so slight in the FWD race cars I've driven there.

Looks like you had a great time even with the exhaust issue.

What changes have you done to the GTS?
 

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Cup2 obviously making the biggest difference there. I run X73 and am looking go change to PS4S or Cup2, I find Cup2 quite loud on a longer trip.

What camber do you run? -1.5/2?

Do you find the headers and tune give a big gain? Sounds brutal!

Really nice lap.
 

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I'd like to know what his "ring tool" is/was to justify that your CTGS felt 'unstable'.

My x73 car is certainly a different animal from anything else I've driven there. Most of my laps I did a decade ago in a heavily modified front wheel drive Volvo. Then after a 5 year gap I went back and drove my all-wheel-drive nose heavy RS4 there. The Cayman is a joy to drive compared to both of those, allowing me to stay flat out through corners that were never remotely flat in my other cars. But it feels pretty nervous, borderline unstable in some places where I had to stay away from kerbs that I've always driven over before. I took out a guy for a passenger lap who drives one of the most popular (and really quick) "ring tool" FWD cars and he couldn't believe how unstable my car felt compared to his.
 
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