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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
A long standing question in my mind has finally been answered.

Today, my son and I took the 2014 CS and the 2007 BMW 335 with a turbo tune out on the autobahn.

We did several runs from 40 and 50 mph and I honestly thought the BMW would pull ahead on this one. The BMW has a quick build once those turbos come on, and the extra boost from the tune is like warp drive. I have actually had to put on the brakes while accelerating behind an E92 M3 to keep from hitting him in the rear. So, my thought going into this was that this would be a win for the BMW.

I was surprised when we started and the pull was dead even for a couple of seconds....then the 981 just started walking away. By 130 mph, I was many car lengths ahead. I thought my son had maybe missed a shift,so we tried again...same answer.

I have always been impressed with my 335 in a straight line. Today I learned that linear power delivery can mask the true ferocity of the 981.

Oh yeah...when we got back to the house after taking some back roads, my son complained about the handling on the BMW saying it was like a boat and he was getting traction loss lights consistently. I had to tell him that I was actually taking it very easy through those,sections...he was having a hard time keeping up.

What a car.
 

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Yeah, but that's the "S" model...what about the "regular" 981 ?
 

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I think the advantage the 981 has over other sedans and hot hatches is the aerodynamics. Here's a video of a standing mile with a 2.7L Cayman and a WRX STi, which has more HP and torque.
 
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I never time my laps, so I have no clear answer to that. I can only tell you that I took my 981 CS to the very familiar track with 3,500 miles and less than 3 months of ownership. I drove my 2011 E92 335i there extensively, for at least a dozen weekends. With every possible wheel/tire combo you can think of. My seat-of-the-pants estimate was -5 seconds a lap, without EVER crossing 8/10ths - I normally did 9/10ths most of the time with E92 with brief excursions to 10/10ths in some corners. 5 seconds less is a crapton. Eye opener.

When you run there with the same group/club you tend to see at least 80% of repeats, 20% people you never saw before. Where I used to be somewhere in the middle of the 30-car pack with E92, I was passed only by instructors in the same group.E92 is ridiculously slow and heavy when compared with 981 and cannot put the power down because of hysterical nannies - your son was right. 3,600 lb of heft in that E92 were one of the main reasons to get 981 CS. That and not fitting in BRZ even without the helmet and Miata being convertible - of course :)

Many clubs here have serious restrictions on allowing a convertible onto the track. PCA doesn't - who knows why?!? :)
 

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Two things: Lb/Hp for acceleration, and aerodynamics for high speed. The 981 has both over the BMW. Remember that the 335 is a sedan, a fine high performance sedan, but still a sedan whose base is a family car. The 981 is a sports car designed as a sports car.
 

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Two things: Lb/Hp for acceleration, and aerodynamics for high speed. The 981 has both over the BMW. Remember that the 335 is a sedan, a fine high performance sedan, but still a sedan whose base is a family car. The 981 is a sports car designed as a sports car.
That's the critical point that a lot of people don't consider when evaluating the M3. It's starts off as a family sedan. That's not the case with the 981.It began life as an uncompromised sports car. So I've always been impressed with what the BMW M division was able to accomplish with the M3/M4. I can still remember a guy with an M3 in 200 lapping 996s. The 2017 M3 has gotten so heavy, that it's expecting a lot for it to be competitive with a 991.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I have had my E92 on Hockenheimring and I knew that it wasn't up to snuff in the curves...I was always looking as to where I should cast anchor when I came into the pit straight.

That said, in a straight line, that car is no joke, especially with a tune. I am still surprised (pleasantly so) that the 981 walked away so well.
 

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I have had my E92 on Hockenheimring and I knew that it wasn't up to snuff in the curves...I was always looking as to where I should cast anchor when I came into the pit straight.

That said, in a straight line, that car is no joke, especially with a tune. I am still surprised (pleasantly so) that the 981 walked away so well.
The FEEL of acceleration goes to E92 335i. It felt like it will affect Earth rotation with all that torque. That said, acceleration in 981 is SCARY. You feel like you are going nowhere, but when the familiar straight ends, you are going a LOT faster and have to hit brakes like a madman. Even on the street.

I stopped being a fanboy of forced induction while I was on the track. Street is perfectly fine for turbos, but track is not - IMHO. Again, this presumes you are on the track to have fun, not to win pole position. If you are after points/money, then turbo all the way and PDK even further. :)
 

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Yeah, the 981 doesn't feel as fast as I thought it would. Looking down at the speedometer will definitely open your eyes to what is REALLY going on!

Once you start to feel the S model pull, you're already way over the speed limit!

When I pass people, I watch the road and NOT my speedometer. Great way to hit super naughty speeds and freak out, so be mindful of the situation! Cops are waiting for you :)
 

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Tall gearing and better aerodynamics. The 981 pulls a bit less hard for a lot longer. I really consider it a momentum car compared to the newer BMWs.

The time I spent test driving the E46 M3 showed similar behavior to the 981. It had a tall tachometer and you had to wind it out to get good power. The V8 and then the turbos added tons of torque to make it feel more explosive. In the end you just rip through the RPMs faster and have to shift with the way they have them geared.

Power to weight and then power to drag are what ultimately matter when developing speed. Everything else is just changing the shift points. (Obviously you can bork it up, but neither BMW or Porsche seem to have that problem).

I had an F80 M3 for a few months and enjoyed it a lot in Germany and for a couple laps around the Nordschleife, but excess power/torque have never really done it for me. Once back here on familiar back roads, I found the 128i more fun. Size matters, and smaller/lighter trumps power and suspension any day. I love swinging through corners on back roads without having to scrub off a bunch of speed.

The 981 has weight, suspension, and size all going for it. 325/315 hp is more than sufficient to prevent you from winding the engine out anywhere but on an open freeway or a track.

That and you can usually load up over 1G in corners without squeaking the tires... And that's on Eagle F1s instead of PSS/PS4. The M3 just can't keep up in the turns.

Man, I love my car. :D

Edit:

Oh, and if you need power, don't be afraid to drop a gear! Second is the name of the game starting from anything up to 65 mph (that's where second ENDS in most BMWs). You can go to first for serious hairpins.
 

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I've leased/owned/drove BMW's for 17 years. They are fantastic. But per this topic...once you get near three figures, they seem to force their way forward with raw HP. What I've experienced in the three Porsche's I've owned is that when you get near that three figure area...the sensation is that they accelerate. It's like 'more more more...let's go let's go let's go'. Fantastic feeling that I've never had in another car...including some that were far more expensive than my 981.
 

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As my first Porsche I was quite intimidated at first with the power. After driving it 2000 miles from Atlanta to Phoenix after my purchase I was not intimidated anymore, but did have a pretty big grin on my face. Rain, (got to use the rear fog), shine, dark of night (Bi Xenon lights everything up), what's not to like? West Texas on a weekday morning was quite fun.

The speed warning is helpful as I have one set at 82, which of course is really 80 and the second at 102. Seeing the first warning at the top of 3rd gear on an on ramp is a clue this 981 CS isn't slow.
 

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My 981 Boxster S was too slow so I traded it for a 991.2 4s. Now, that is fast!
Nah, I am just messing with you guys.:)
 
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My 981 Boxster S was too slow so I traded it for a 991.2 4s. Now, that is fast!
Nah, I am just messing with you guys.:)
Just waiting for the news clip about the otherwise respectable scientist pinched for tripling the speed limit. "But your honor, I wanted a C4 base, but they wouldn't sell me one. I had to take an S, and its not my fault it goes so damn quick."
 
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The speed warning is helpful as I have one set at 82, which of course is really 80 and the second at 102. Seeing the first warning at the top of 3rd gear on an on ramp is a clue this 981 CS isn't slow.
If you have PDK, disregard because I do not know shift points for that. However, if you have MT, 82 mph is where third gear STARTS being fun, not where it ends. Third gear should get you past second warning just in time to shift to 4th and avoid fuel cutoff.

I do onramp excercise about every 15 days and getting third to over 100 mph in Sport with driver window open is definitely a highlight of the whole experience :)
 

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If you have PDK, disregard because I do not know shift points for that. However, if you have MT, 82 mph is where third gear STARTS being fun, not where it ends. Third gear should get you past second warning just in time to shift to 4th and avoid fuel cutoff.

I do onramp excercise about every 15 days and getting third to over 100 mph in Sport with driver window open is definitely a highlight of the whole experience :)
Some days I forget that a lot of folks have PDK and their gearing is different.

I never get to rev it out in third gear here. The cops wouldn't appreciate it at all! It's usually 2-3-6 when getting on the freeway for me. I go to third for steady state merge so I have some power available, then just drop to 6th for cruising. You know... When the highway is socked in with rain and fog (ahem... Prius).

Oh, I do have to crack the passenger window a tad when I have driver window open or the pressure differential kills me.
 

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If you have PDK, disregard because I do not know shift points for that. However, if you have MT, 82 mph is where third gear STARTS being fun, not where it ends. Third gear should get you past second warning just in time to shift to 4th and avoid fuel cutoff.

I do onramp excercise about every 15 days and getting third to over 100 mph in Sport with driver window open is definitely a highlight of the whole experience :)
Third gear at 7200 RPM is 96 MPH in my PDK CS according to my log files on a level ground run.
 
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