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Discussion Starter #1
Since the second gen cars have 25 hp and a more efficient engine, I got to wondering how much faster an 09+ S with PDK was than a 06-08 S 6 speed. Does anybody have any lap times at the same track, perhaps someone who has owned and tracked both?
 

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It's difficult to make exact side by side comparisons because drivers will run different tires, different setups, with different skill levels, on different days, with different atmospherics and track conditions. That said, in PCA we group cars of similar performance for stock classes much like SCCA, and both would run in the same class. The later cars have a bit more power but tend to also be heavier. I suspect it would be a close match and depend on driver and track layout. HP pays a lot more at Fontana or Laguna Seca than some of the tighter tracks that tend to favor a lighter car. My best guess is that stock for stock, the 987.2 cars would be a touch faster by maybe 0.2 seconds or so.
 

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The previous post is right on. The biggest variable is the driver followed by tires and suspension. HP is least important but its value is highly dependent on the track layout. However, For PCA "Stock" racing the 06-08 Cayman S runs in H class with a 10.52 #/HP ratio and the 09-13 runs in I class with a 9.77 #/HP ratio. The PDK version also runs in I. A well driven Spyder or Cayman R is an excellent track car but my 07 Cayman S with R comps and suspension mods holds its own.
 

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All things being equal, it's not much.

One of the better "standardized" tests would be the C&D Lightning Lap results... AVAILABLE HERE.

Temps and such might be different over the years, suspension type, transmission type, etc... and remember the newer cars have better tire technology, but results are:

#49 3:02.6 981 Cayman S
#53 3:03.8 987.2 Boxster Spyder
#54 3:03.9 987.2 Cayman R
#58 3:04.2 981 Boxster S
#73 3:05.8 987.2 Cayman S
#93 3:09.5 987.1 Cayman S


Keep in mind, the 987.1 Cayman S was 6MT, and the 987.2 Cayman S was PDK...


Another interesting data point, is that #47 at 3:01.8 was a 997.1 GT3. The 981 Cayman S is less than 1 second slower. And that's on a 3 minute lap.
 

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All I know is that at a high HP track like Road America on the long straights the newer CS's can walk away from me, which leads me to believe that the extra HP gets you up to 100+ MPH a bit quicker. I doubt that the fact I'm running street tires and have a manual tranny, whereas they may be running R comps and PDK, makes all that much difference on the long straights.
 

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i've seen few time mentioning that gen 2 has better ABS and rear brakes simulate LSD.
perhaps PCM is better too.
 

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I'll give you a few numbers.

As an estimation, and all things being equal, and at my track.
987.2 is about 0.5 secs faster. LSD adds about 0.3 sec, various upgrades (exhaust plenum etc) adds about 0.5 secs, PASM about 0.1 secs over 987.1 stock.
PDK adds about 1 sec.
Regular R specs add about 2 seconds.
Super soft super sticky R specs add about 4 seconds (only available in Japan and Australia).

Cheers.
 

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All things being equal, it's not much.

One of the better "standardized" tests would be the C&D Lightning Lap results... AVAILABLE HERE.

Temps and such might be different over the years, suspension type, transmission type, etc... and remember the newer cars have better tire technology, but results are:

#49 3:02.6 981 Cayman S
#53 3:03.8 987.2 Boxster Spyder
#54 3:03.9 987.2 Cayman R
#58 3:04.2 981 Boxster S
#73 3:05.8 987.2 Cayman S
#93 3:09.5 987.1 Cayman S


Keep in mind, the 987.1 Cayman S was 6MT, and the 987.2 Cayman S was PDK...
The basic answer is that all things equal, a gen 2 PDK is a lot faster than a Gen 1 6 speed. Not corvette versus civic faster, mind you, but the Lightning Lap figures above suggest almost 4 seconds on a 3 minute lap. Seems about right to me depending on the track, and 4 seconds is an eternity when you're chasing tenths.

Another data point would be the PCA race classing system. Either Gen 1 or Gen 2 Caymans can run GTB1 class, with the same type of modifications to the engines (exhaust and ECU tune primarily). PCA "levels" the performance with weight: minimum weights for the class as raced (with driver) are:

Gen 1 MT: 2,750
Gen 2 MT: 2,950
Gen 2 PDK: 3,050

So put a 300 lb passenger in the Gen 2 PDK and the 2 cars should be just about even.
 

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PDK is faster not only because its shifts are instant, but also because of gearing. At VIR on the back straight, in 6MT I start from 3rd gear and ends up in 5th. PDK will get around oak tree in 2nd gear and shift 2-3-4-5-6 without losing a beat.

It's really hard to find 2 cars that has the same setup to compare, though. A buddy and I have same car but 6MT vs PDK. But once he added RSS LCA and mounted R compound tires, it's not apple to apple any more :(
 

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As others have said, it depends on many factors such as drivers, tires etc....but holding those variables constant. It comes down to HP. Below is some good data on 1/4 mile and 0-60 times from Porsche 0-60 Times & Porsche Quarter Mile Times | Porsche 911 Carrera, 928, 944 Turbo, Boxster, Cayman & more 0 to 60 stats!


2006 Porsche Cayman S 0-60 mph 4.7 | Quarter mile 13.1

2007 Porsche Cayman 0-60 mph 5.3 | Quarter mile 13.9

2007 Porsche Cayman S 0-60 mph 4.9 | Quarter mile 13.3

2008 Porsche Cayman GTR 0-60 mph 4.3 | Quarter mile 12.6 Manual Trans.|6 Cyl Eng.|RWD |Coupe

2009 Porsche Cayman 0-60 mph 5.0 | Quarter mile 13.5 2009 Porsche Cayman S 0-60 mph 4.9

2010 Porsche Cayman 0-60 mph 5.0

2011 Porsche Cayman S 0-60 mph 4.9 Manual Trans.|Coupe

2011 Porsche Cayman S 0-60 mph 4.8 DCT Trans.|Coupe

2011 Porsche Cayman S (PDK w/ Sports Plus) 0-60 mph 4.6
 

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You'd be surprised how little a difference HP numbers make on lap times, assuming you are not an advanced-level or pro driver. Even at those levels, HP does little to help you through the twisties.

I moved from a base 2011 Cayman to a 2010 CS but I'm still on street tires, and a move to better rubber would have made a larger difference. As would nailing my trun-ins. I can't give you an exact comparison because as a driver I'm learning (and unlearning!) and am a really bad control variable. On most tight tracks I'd give the CS a second or two over the C, maybe 2-3 on tracks like WGI. That's with 65 added HP. I'm sure a pro could get better returns, that's just the view from my seat.


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All I know is that at a high HP track like Road America on the long straights the newer CS's can walk away from me, which leads me to believe that the extra HP gets you up to 100+ MPH a bit quicker. I doubt that the fact I'm running street tires and have a manual tranny, whereas they may be running R comps and PDK, makes all that much difference on the long straights.
It makes a lot of difference on a straight when you can carry more speed on to it and brake later.
 

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I agree r comps will give more of an advantage than a bit more HP, as you cary more velocity through the corners and that pays off again going onto the straights.

Last August at WGI in a base 987.2 I ran 2.22 in a yellow run group. This year in 987.2 CS, with LSD, a 2.18 in the white run group. I'd give about 2 seconds of that to the 65 added HP, and the other two some of the things I picked up in that year. Same street tires, in about the same condition, and same brake pads. The C hit 128 on the back straight and the CS 140. The CS was much better at climbing out of the toe of the boot as well,and was easier to keep on people to suggest a point by, but it's certainly no faster in the corners, and that's most of the track.

No doubt the .2 is a better machine than the .1, and worth the upgrade if you can swing it, but if you are expecting it to take seconds off your time... It won't. Spend a fraction of the money on a coach and THAT will take seconds off your lap times :)


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Discussion Starter #14
Not looking to upgrade just to shave a little time at the track, I was just wondering.
 

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All I know is that at a high HP track like Road America on the long straights the newer CS's can walk away from me, which leads me to believe that the extra HP gets you up to 100+ MPH a bit quicker.
That probably has to do with how fast the other car exited the corner and what its cornering speed was compared to yours. I've tracked both 987.1 and 987.2 and, trust me, 987.2 does not "walk away" from 987.1. It's all about the exit speed at the start of the straight. And, yes, I've been to Road America - long, long, long straights. I've been told that I was gaining on them by owners of various cars - they wanted to know what I'd done to the car. Well, it was just that my exit speed was higher than theirs....

You'd be surprised how little a difference HP numbers make on lap times
+++1. It's not all about hp, guys. Ever been passed by a spec Miata or E36 track/race car? Yeah.... that's why. I can't tell you how many times I've passed GT3s, Turbos, Corvettes, GT-Rs, Vipers, etc., etc., on the track. With the same driver, my car should have no chance. 0-60 times matter jack except in your imagination or when you're flooring it at the traffic light (roll eyes)... If 0-60 times matter to you a lot, then you bought the wrong car.

It makes a lot of difference on a straight when you can carry more speed on to it and brake later.
True to an extent, assuming same driver. EDIT: sorry, I just realized that you were referring to something else (R comps and PDK).
 
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